[geotracks]

Very basic question.....other than the obvious difference like engine power, ground clearance etc. an SUV to me looks like a "Jeep", while a MUV is a "Van".

I am still trying to figure out, outward design wise, what makes the MUV (Innova / Lodgy etc.) look like a Van and vehicles like the XUV / Scorpio / Creta etc. look like a SUV? I mean dimension wise etc. they are comparable. Both, XUV & Innova are 7 / 8 seaters. Is there a difference physical outward appearance wise that puts them in one category or the other. Any thoughts?

[Dan9ie]

SUV - larger face, bigger grills, longer hoods, bigger wheels and higger GC
Muv - smaller front ( face, grills, hood), smaller car like wheels and lesser GC)

You have to be blind not to see the obvious differences in design

[Rahul Rao]

I have used two Innova's till date, and run over 3.5 lakh km in the two. Reliablity dependablity etc aside, there were two issues, engine noise at speed due to low gearing, and chassis crossmember below gearbox scraping the big hump type speed brakers , and lastly the cost.
Toyotas are never priced reasonably, and if the new Innova gives features similar to XUV, the cost will be atleast 5 lakhs more.
BTW if they give an AWD in the W8, the W10 will face considerably reduced demand.

Rahul

[mayank0782]

Originally Posted by Dan9ie

SUV - larger face, bigger grills, longer hoods, bigger wheels and higger GC
Muv - smaller front ( face, grills, hood), smaller car like wheels and lesser GC)

You have to be blind not to see the obvious differences in design

To add to this --

SUVs - Flatter Hood , higher front and rear overhangs, scooped wheel arches, laid back design.

MUVs - Hood slops forward, lower front and rear overhangs, usually no scoops on wheel arches, cab forward designs.

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by Dan9ie

You have to be blind not to see the obvious differences in design

Thanks for your response. We in the community here take it you did not mean to be rude, but rather just making a point. Probably I did not pose my question correctly. I agree with the bigger grills, longer hood etc. I completely resonate with this. However my question was slightly different.

Let me try asking my question to all others on this thread again in a different way. Suppose if we were to look at the side view silhouette of a SUV & MUV, most of us would recognize a "van's" shape silhouette as compared to a "jeep" (SUV) shape silhouette, right? So what in the silhouette differentiates a van like appearance from jeep like appearance. Is it the flatter hood, straighter wind shield of SUV versus more slanted wind shield of a van? But then if I were to take this characteristic, this fits well for a SUV like Scorpio. Very boxy appearance. But then when we look at EcoSport or Creta, they have very slanted wind shields like a van, but yet, our mind tells us immediately that it is a SUV & not a van even if we see a side view silhouette of the EcoSport or Creta. That is what I am trying to figure out. How is our mind is differentiating between a SUV silhouette and van silhouette. For our discussion here, let's assume that a side view silhouette view does not show any details like make, chrome grill / handles etc. It is just a side view "shape" or "outline" presented to us.

I am still not sure if many will understand my question Maybe a bit abstract, so sorry about that. Not sure how else to ask what I am thinking.

Originally Posted by mayank0782

To add to this --

SUVs - Flatter Hood , higher front and rear overhangs, scooped wheel arches, laid back design.

MUVs - Hood slops forward, lower front and rear overhangs, usually no scoops on wheel arches, cab forward designs.

Thanks mayank0782. Very logical explanation. I think you got what I was asking.

Mod Note: Please avoid typing like...... this.....

[Jo-G]

Originally Posted by geotracks

I am still not sure if many will understand my question ....maybe a bit abstract, so sorry about that. Not sure how else to ask what I am thinking.

Well, to my understanding SUVs are of 2 types the real SUV (that have separate drives for the front wheels and rear wheels or separate drives for all wheels like in the original Hummer) The other type is the CrossOver SUV which might be classified as a marriage between the MUV and SUV which are the Creta, CRV, etc. while the more premium Porche Cayenne or RangeRovers, etc... are still considered SUV

MUV are the people movers and though we have the slanting front and windshield like in Innova and Aria, even the Tata Sumo, Mahindra Bolero etc. with straight hoods and windshields are still MUV and not SUV.

So on the whole the looks can be deceiving and it is the functionalities that really matters

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by Jo-G

MUV are the people movers and though we have the slanting front and windshield like in Innova and Aria, even the Tata Sumo, Mahindra Bolero etc. with straight hoods and windshields are still MUV and not SUV.

So on the whole the looks can be deceiving and it is the functionalities that really matters

Ah-ha....this is where it get's interesting the confusion in my mind (of categorization of SUV / Van / MUV) that I am trying to understand. I think you are understanding my abstract question.

Many here will argue, if Bolero, Sumo etc. are MUVs. They are really SUVs. Then if Bolero, Sumo are MUVs (people movers) then what about Xylo or Scorpio? Are they also MUVs and not SUVs?

I guess, I'll tweak my question to make it even more interesting....what if we take away the term MUV (to avoid confusion) and try to understand what constitutes a "Van" versus what constitutes a "SUV". Is Innova a "Van"......we do technically call it a "min-van".

I also tend to agree with your logic of "functionality matters" and not looks alone.

This will be a very long debate, because then the likes of Fortuner which are people movers also are marketed as full size SUVs.....so does the people mover angle really the right one? I am sure there will many thoughts on this.

So once we agree to a common understanding, I'll now come back to the XUV 500 being discussed here. Is it a SUV or really a MUV / Van.....given that it is a people mover like you describe.....based on the "functionality angle".

[Jo-G]

Well, most of the current SUVs are modified (read luxurious) Jeeps (GPs - General Purpose vehicles) which were once the rugged go anywhere types. As they evolved to the needs and desires of the modern customers. So did the vans (and station wagons) evolved to MUVs. Overall, people look for the higher seating positions of GPs, and the comfort of Sedans to bring out the modern SUVs and MUVs and it is upto the consumer and their utility that decides which one to go for.

While in the middle east, when I was in search (research) for my next vehicle (while having a Honda Civic) I was contemplating between the many 4x4 available, that included Land cruiser, Patrol, land-rover, cherokee, wrangler etc. and I was posed with the question "how often would you off road" is it 80% off road and 20% tarmac or 60:40 or 50:50 or 40:60 and I decided on 20% off road and 80% tarmac which helped in finally deciding on a Honda Pilot which had the high seating, power and punch to take an extended family out on weekends. Hope that analogy helps.

[deetjohn]

Here is a short ACI review of the AT. Apparently it disengages the transmission while coasting, and that is weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uFeZ7uucKM

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Here is a short ACI review of the AT. Apparently it disengages the transmission while coasting, and that is weird.

This was not expected from Mahindra, their R&D people should have seen that the two other vehicles that do that ie Fortuner and Verna diesel do not sell much, while cars whose transmission remains engaged atleast at medium and high speed have excellent sales and a good fan following.
Vehicles like Verna, Creta even the Chevy Optra which keeps transmission engaged at higher speed, but dis engages it below 30 kph or so actually are the most convenient ones to drive in traffic.

Rahul

[an_and]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

This was not expected from Mahindra, their R&D people should have seen that the two other vehicles that do that ie Fortuner and Verna diesel do not sell much, while cars whose transmission remains engaged atleast at medium and high speed have excellent sales and a good fan following.
Vehicles like Verna, Creta even the Chevy Optra which keeps transmission engaged at higher speed, but dis engages it below 30 kph or so actually are the most convenient ones to drive in traffic.

Rahul

As far as I know, Every TC gear box disengages as soon as you take your leg off the pedal and lets the car free wheel. I have driven a few myself and have experienced the same in all of them. Mind you I am speaking of pure Torque Converters and not the DSGs or the AMTs.

There is nothing to be worried about this, and another re-assuring factor for me - who is very skeptical about the longevity of the TC boxes is that this one is of a Japanese build and can be expected to perform reliably - given the general experience of "made in Japan".

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by an_and

As far as I know, Every TC gear box disengages as soon as you take your leg off the pedal and lets the car free wheel. I have driven a few myself and have experienced the same in all of them. Mind you I am speaking of pure Torque Converters and not the DSGs or the AMTs.

No all of them do not. Drive the Rexton, the Captiva, the Santafe, the Creta, or most of the cars from the Mercedes stable. They all have Torque converter boxes which do not dis engage, and give you engine braking if you use triptronic to down shift. In Hyundai 6 speed ie Creta, Elantra and Santafe, they remain engaged at higher speeds, down shift from 6th to 5th, 4th and 3rd, and then dis engage. This is actually very comfortable, as you have good engine braking at speeds, and you can touch and coast when caught in city traffic. Check BNM's ownership report about his Creta AT.

Rahul

[Piyush46]

I have a small question here:
Will this coasting feature put more pressure to the brakes simply because there is no engine braking ? This means shorter life for brake pads and other components ?

Correct me if i am wrong, I have a bit less knowledge about this coasting feature; I have driven the captiva quite a lot and currently drive the fortuner ( both automatics ) and I think both of them too have coasting feature as rpm fall down as soon as one lifts off the accelerator but i don't think this creates any problem .
What kind of cons does this feature have ?

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

This was not expected from Mahindra, their R&D people should have seen that the two other vehicles that do that ie Fortuner and Verna diesel do not sell much, while cars whose transmission remains engaged atleast at medium and high speed have excellent sales and a good fan following.
Vehicles like Verna, Creta even the Chevy Optra which keeps transmission engaged at higher speed, but dis engages it below 30 kph or so actually are the most convenient ones to drive in traffic.

Rahul

What, are you serious?

You think a layman cares about the gearbox engaging/disengaging while coasting?! Do people even know that a Fortuner and a Verna does that and that is the reason for it's failure (both of them are a decent success by the way)...?

Customer - I am interested in the XUV A/T
Salesman - Sure sir, let us have a TD
Customer - Does the gearbox disengage while coasting?
Salesman - Err... Yes Sir!
Customer - Sorry, not interested.

I do not see the above happening my friend!

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

What, are you serious?
You think a layman cares about the gearbox engaging/disengaging while coasting?! Do people even know that a Fortuner and a Verna does that and that is the reason for it's failure (both of them are a decent success by the way)...?

There are lot's of people (including me) who actually like manuals better, but consider a automatic a need for todays time due to traffic. My co dealer from Chandigarh was considering a fortuner, but this is the exact reason he shifted to a Rexton. Another friend who is the director marketing of the co whose office is next to mine, and a tremendous traveller having just sold a Octavia with just over 5 lakhs on Odo in 2010 to be replaced by a Innova which again did about 3 lakh till last year checked only this before confirming his prebooking of the Creta, otherwise he would have stretched his budget for a Santafe.
Younger crowd may not check this, but those like me who are 40+ and have started driving on un reliable old generation cars, experienced brake faliures etc, even today do not take reliablity for granted, and are not likely to buy a car manual or AT without confirming weather engine braking is possible.

Rahul