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Old 26th August 2008, 11:07   #691
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Originally Posted by Steve Stuckey View Post
Now this fabulous Phantom III did not spend much time in India, but it has very strong Indian connections.
What a gorgeous car. The 30's remain a most glorious period where some of the most flamboyant designs graced automobiles.

How heartbreaking to see such a magnificent machine consigned to such a horrid fate!

The two pictures so succinctly depict the beautiful side of Man and his ugliness.

I very vaguely recall seeing a similar picture of a ravaged PIII lying in a yard like this followed by shots of the car in subsequent restoration stages. This was many years ago. Steve are you aware of other PIII's that were found in a similar state and were resurrected elsewhere around the world? Was this chassis saved?

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Old 26th August 2008, 11:24   #692
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Wonderful photos Speedy, keep scanning and posting your photos, they are very valuable photos of very interesting cars at different stages of their life spans, many enthusiasts-historians are appreciating this website's window revealing India's motoring heritage. Great stuff!

It is so sad that the majority of exported India cars are just sold and resold for profit in the auctions in the west, your family have saved so many cars to be where they should be, in India along with their history, they belong in India rather than just money makers with exotic histories in western marketplaces.

It does help when they can be authenticated with the extensive records and documents that do exist with the respective clubs and factory records otherwise they just become vague and uncertain, only refered to as "the blue one" etc......I am not an expert nor have ever claimed to be but I hope I and others can learn more from our elders and those who have spent decades researching these cars, some being present on this forum, the depths of the skills of car identification are vast and require great devotion and perception.....
Thank you Julian, the photographs are valuable not only to everyone but to me as well. this is the only link to Indian Heritage and wealth that existed with the Maharaja's and others in India. i was in Bombay for a brief period so i managed to scan a few. there are plenty more Pictures some seen some unseen. will try to do so as soon as possible.

it was sad but it was life, the people who did this were not enthusiasts but treated their cars as a mode of transportation. i guess it was more so then as they were easily available. it is like going to a showroom and being able to buy a Mercedes. the Exports of cars should have been banned ages ago but i guess the people were enamaled by the west and the kind of money being paid for them. my father tells me that the cars were bought for 4 to 5 times the value paid for in india.

Julian you will not find all cars registered to India in the records. some cars that we refer to "Blue car or Red convertible" are cars that were bought second hand from U.K. or some other place. so it would have a record under the original owner and then the cars change so many hands that today you would not be able to pin point exactly where the car came from, unless you have a program on the computer that finds the origin of the chassis number from all records around the world. my father tells me some cars were bought in this fashion from the Rolls Royce dealer in London.
This is the reason alot of cars are termed as this did not exist or this has no record.
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Old 26th August 2008, 11:59   #693
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the picture was taken in Delhi at the STC. my father had gone to see and probably buy the car. it got picked up by someone else.



Daskot is not a castle it is a Bunglow. Karl is refering to another picture.
I understand. Meant a Bungalow which looks like a Castle. Daskot has a classic appearance of a Castle, hence mentioned the same.
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Old 26th August 2008, 13:14   #694
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here is one more Rolls Royce from the Mr.Bhogilal collection.
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Old 26th August 2008, 14:07   #695
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Also found another picture of the boat tail with the rear seats opened. most people thought it was a two seater.
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Old 26th August 2008, 14:51   #696
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Also found another picture of the boat tail with the rear seats opened. most people thought it was a two seater.
Thanks Speedy. Lovely pictures believe they are from Mr. Bhogilal's Kathwada collection at Ahmedabad. Similar photos can be viewed in BS Motoring of 2004 showing the Bhogilal's collection.
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Old 26th August 2008, 16:40   #697
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Thanks Speedy. Lovely pictures believe they are from Mr. Bhogilal's Kathwada collection at Ahmedabad. Similar photos can be viewed in BS Motoring of 2004 showing the Bhogilal's collection.
yes i have mentioned also that they are part of the Bhogilal collection. the BS Motoring team was taken there by my brother and these are pictures taken by him. BS Motoring has a longer shot of the Boat tail and that too with the rear seat cover closed.
the first Rolls PI picture is in the Ahemdabad house. this was before the museum was started.

here is one with Shrini of BSM. this picture is not anywhere except with the people who were there. the car refused to start so was being towed by a tractor.
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Old 26th August 2008, 17:12   #698
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The Maroon one is a 20/25 made by Manvendra Singh Barwani some 20 yrs back, its still with the owner. The blue one is a phantom made a few years back again by MS Barwani. It belongs to a prominent person in Mumbai. The blue one does not have a Rolls Royce engine, as you rightly said. Don't know about the new engine. The 20/25 has its original engine.
Please accept my ignorance, but are you saying that this blue car (Phantom III 3CM37) has a body MADE by M S Barwani. Also, I had not heard before that the car did not have its original engine. Do you know more? I have not heard from Mr Poonawalla that it is not the original engine.
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Old 26th August 2008, 17:36   #699
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this blue car (Phantom III 3CM37) has a body MADE by M S Barwani.
Which blue car are we talking about? I thought 3CM37 was a grey when sold new? Was it repainted blue eventually before the current black and cream?

The Rolls on jack stands in post 667 in black or blue is 3CM37?

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Old 26th August 2008, 17:48   #700
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Please accept my ignorance, but are you saying that this blue car (Phantom III 3CM37) has a body MADE by M S Barwani. Also, I had not heard before that the car did not have its original engine. Do you know more? I have not heard from Mr Poonawalla that it is not the original engine.
The Blue boattail is not Mr Poonawalla's car. Its a Phantom 1 if i am not mistaken. Mr Poonawalla's car is a P3 as you mentioned.
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Old 26th August 2008, 19:23   #701
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The Blue boattail is...
Which blue boat tail?
There is a maroon + wood clad boat tail in post #671 and a White and orange boat tail in post #695? I can't find a blue one.
This is getting a little confusing, I think I prefer the number system or at least the name system rather than the colour code system.
Regarding second hand cars in post #692, it can be seen from Steve's detailed histories of the Phantom IIIs just how much information is available even for cars bought second hand, every car is being tracked and recorded.

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Old 26th August 2008, 19:44   #702
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Sorry for the confusion. I mentioned the blue car because Karl mistook it for the Maroon boattail post #671. The blue car's picture is not up on the site. It is altogether another boattail.
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Old 26th August 2008, 20:55   #703
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the Exports of cars should have been banned ages ago but i guess the people were enamaled by the west and the kind of money being paid for them.
I think you mean the people were enamoured. You see we enamel cars, not people
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Old 26th August 2008, 21:33   #704
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I think I prefer the number system
I think we were doing fine with the number system. I agree any other form of reference creates confusion considering cars are repainted over the course of their lifetime and at times bodies altered.

Julian how about attempting a Steve style reference record for the Bentley's that came to India? Between all of us here we should be able to carefully document it all in time?
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Old 26th August 2008, 23:42   #705
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I think we were doing fine with the number system. I agree any other form of reference creates confusion considering cars are repainted over the course of their lifetime and at times bodies altered.

Julian how about attempting a Steve style reference record for the Bentley's that came to India? Between all of us here we should be able to carefully document it all in time?
Which Bentleys? W O or Derby? Many more Derby Bentleys seem to have survived. That sort of detail has been collected over years and years by joining some rather expensive clubs, buying dozens of back issue club magazines, factory records and many other records and buying very expensive photographs and knowing a lot of very knowledgeable enthusiasts and above all decades of admirable dedicated effort. I don't think many really appreciate the depth of what Steve has shared on this forum. As you see most of the information comes from records here, there will always be gaps in the history in India. One can access nuclear secrets easier than even the car chassis numbers of cars in India due to the secrecy culture prevailing amongst many Indian vintage car owners, some flaunt them and some disappear into their closets for decades. But good progress is being made!
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