Team-BHP - Composite Fibre Leaf Springs: Can they be used for off-roading?

As most of you know that I have broken 2 sets of front leaf springs and for a while had reverted back to stock ones (with an additional 2 leafs). I had nearly made up my mind to NEVER go for the front CFL's as they were not up to the mark. It was just not me but few other people who had issues with the front CFL's.

Somehow again was not happy with the setup/ride and decided to try CFL's one more time after talking to Dr Nano on how they have improved the 3rd lot & have done extensive testing.

So, got one set for testing on the condition that I will return them if they break. After that I have done the following OTR's and subjected the front CFL's to some amount of pushing it to the limit tests.

AKC/EXAAM: 3 days of OTR's and some 2,000 KMS of on road driving. Carried my stock leafs for backup :-)
TPC: 2 days of OTR's and some 750 KMS of on road driving

I don't think not many OTR's would offer more varied testing terrain for these front CFL's

They are holding up till now and no visible signs of them breaking up. So they for sure seem to be better that the previous ones.

Am I 100% confident: Not yet. but nearly there... if they hold for 2-3 more OTR's then I would be 100% sure on their long term performance, stability etc.

Hi all.

I've been reading through this thread and the learning for me is great.

I am looking for a new SUV with AT.
I love the Ford Endeavour 3.0 but I wasn't sure about buying it due to the ride quality in the middle row. I just couldn't accept the fact that in-spite of paying 20 lacs+, the ride comfort is horrible. :-(

But now I have made up my mind to purchase it anyways and get the Rear CFLs fitted into it immediately after taking delivery.
I am sure that this will help with making the ride on city roads smoother.

I have no problems with the front suspension and hence am going to leave that unchanged.

Thanks & Regards,
Sameer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameer_tangri (Post 2035234)

Update-
I've just received a word of caution from 4x4addict against using these CFLs in a powerful vehicle like the Endeavour. He rightly says that although they are guaranteed and all, the CFLs are still built in a local workshop and may even snap at high speeds owing to the weight and power of the Endeavour.

This has left me in doubt all over again. :-(

@Khan - how is the body roll with CFLs? After SPOA you might be having more body roll than stock and I am not sure if you have retained the front anti-roll-bar or not. If you can advise on the "handling" after installing F/R CFLs it would help greatly.

Also - the Gypsy is horrendous over small bumps, speed-breakers etc. After installing CFLs has this tendency to "hop" gone away to some extent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudev (Post 2030915)

...
One thing though. In OTR's the speeds are slow but what is needed is speed+extreme shock combo to test this out. In between when you have driven long distances did you go over some speed breakers (they spring up anywhere and everywhere unannounced) with a a huge braking plus jump action???

Well, I do have a heavy right foot, so occasionally we did have such jumps -- but not the heavy flying ones :-) and our own share of potholes @ pretty good speeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari (Post 2035347)

@GS: I have a 4" wider track than a stock gypsy so body roll is not at all an issue for me even after SPOA -- even at speeds of 120+. Also, I had removed the front stabilizer bar long long back.

However, I don't know if CFL's are helping in ride/body roll etc. But here is an observation made by Sanjay Agarwal (a regular in the INRC/Gypsy rallies), who drove my Gypsy for ~100 kms in rally style

- No body roll at all. Stable as a rock.
- The CFL's are in between (w.r.t stiffness) the stock & tiger kamanis used in rally. (so they are stiffer than stock, was his impression)

Quote:

Also - the Gypsy is horrendous over small bumps, speed-breakers etc. After installing CFLs has this tendency to "hop" gone away to some extent?

It is still there but the "bone jarring" feeling you have has been softened by a HUGE margin. That itself is enough for me. No 'feedback' through the spine feeling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameer_tangri (Post 2035324)

I've just received a word of caution from 4x4addict against using these CFLs in a powerful vehicle like the Endeavour. He rightly says that although they are guaranteed and all, the CFLs are still built in a local workshop and may even snap at high speeds owing to the weight and power of the Endeavour.This has left me in doubt all over again

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameer_tangri (Post 2035324)

I've just received a word of caution from 4x4addict against using these CFLs in a powerful vehicle like the Endeavour(

Adding a leaf to the leaf spring maybe a safer and better option to stiffen the rear suspension, if stiffening is what is required to make the ride better (experts and users of the Endy please correct me if I am wrong).

I have added a leaf pair for the leaf springs of my Scorpio a couple of weeks ago, and this has helped reduce the swaying and excessive jumping. It cost me Rs. 1900/- including labour, at an FNG.

I do not know whether this will affect the warranty, though, if done somewhere other than the ASC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khan_sultan (Post 2035370)

It is still there but the "bone jarring" feeling you have has been softened by a HUGE margin. That itself is enough for me. No 'feedback' through the spine feeling.

That is enough for lots of people! However, given that you have made many other changes, are you able to say that the CFLs have given you this benefit? And would much of this come from installing them just at the rear? Lastly, no issues at all with the reliability for the rear install?

Quote:

Originally Posted by khan_sultan (Post 2035370)

@GS: I have a 4" wider track than a stock gypsy so body roll is not at all an issue for me even after SPOA -- even at speeds of 120+. Also, I had removed the front stabilizer bar long long back..

Khan Bhai,

How can you increase the track by 4". You were talking about spacers and high negative offset wheels in your Spidey Thread. Do these by itself alongwith bigger tyres increase the track width?

So ideally that increase in track counters the increase in height of the vehicle, correct me if i am wrong.please:

But is there any particular calculation one will have to follow (how many inches of track widening based on the increase in height?)

And i am still surprised to hear that the body roll is not an issue at 120KMPH as Spidey has a good increase in height.:eek:

Cheers,
Raj...

@Sameer, regarding the modification of the Endy's suspension, I think it would be better to contact the authorised service centre first, just to check whether they do this on new Endys without voiding the warranty. Getting it done elsewhere is OK only if you know some really competent guys, that too maybe after the warranty expires.

It is difficult to describe the exact procedure here only in words, so it's risky to do a DIY just based on what follows. Plus I hope the thread subscribers pardon the OT post here :)

To put it in short, in the case of my Scorpio, my mechanic removed both the rear wheels, and then the leaf spring sets after supporting the rear of the vehicle (at the chassis and axle) by removing the U bolts, leaf spring end bolts and bushes. He then took took all the leaves apart, re-shaped them on a special radius block to restore the sagged springs to the correct contour. Next he took the new leaf, shaped that as well to match the rest of the leaves, and assembled them together, bent back the tabs, and re-assembled everything back. I did the standstill Shake Test :D to confirm the increased stifness, and was ready to go in under two hours, with a vastly improved ride for city driving.

This procedure no doubt reduces the articulation required for offroading, but since I do more of city driving, the ride suits me better this way.

If you find the ride has become worse, you can always reverse the procedure without much money wasted. Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari (Post 2036075)

I'm getting the rear CFLs first...cannot handle this jarring ride quality anymore.

Be sure to post your buying/installing/drive experience!

I have found that loading up the rear with 4 pax and luggage - a total of 300kilos - tames the ride quite a lot. But to load/unload ballast in their absence, plus the fact that the pick up also gets muted because of the weight means that I am still looking for a solution as well.