Team-BHP > Motorbikes > Bicycles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th October 2021, 13:28   #6601
Senior - BHPian
 
AutoIndian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PCMC, Pune-MH14
Posts: 3,422
Thanked: 4,545 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
At Ravet, Basket Bridge, with Dr. Ponkshe (one of our Puneri local legends, a senior doctor and a kickass rider in his mid 60s, and the founder of the signature Ultra Climbing race, The Sahyadri Classic) who I bumped into during the early part of the ride. We parted ways from here, but it was great to meet the man and ride with him. Huge respect.

Cheers, Doc
Good catch there Doc. I believe he is Dr. Aditya Ponkshe. I have now started following him on Strava (thanks for your suggestion)
AutoIndian is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 26th October 2021, 14:04   #6602
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 5,723
Thanked: 7,813 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by prabuddhadg View Post
Hey Doc, you know what, I had been on Gatorskins (after some years with Ultra Sports) for ages. I had 23mm, 25mm, and 32mm on different bikes. In fact, I still ride 25mm Gatorskins on the rollers.

However, last year, I got myself a set of Pirelli Pzero Velo 4s tires. 28mm. These have really changed the feel of the ride. The tires are very supple and though these are the type with some rain protection, they are very light and grippy. At the same time, they roll very smoothly. I am now an absolute convert. They roll noticeably faster than the 25mm Gatorskins.

Worth giving them a try.
Thanks for the suggestion Prabuddha. I believe they are racing tyres (big favourite on the GCN channel if you follow that) and must be quite pricey? Like the Continental GP5000s. Also, mine is a 2016 frame with rim brakes. 25c is the max that the calipers and frame will clear. I have never ridden on 25c's so I do not have any frame of reference on how they feel or perform. I've always ridden 23s at 110 psi (105 front sometimes, like on my now destroyed Kendas, or 115 at the rear on my Gatorskins. My GRLs were 100 front and rear as that was the max sidewall printed limit).

Since I do not want to use my Gatorskins in training, and now only the rear Kenda is functional, I have a bubbled and ver used and flattened rear GRL that's mounted on my ACT's spare (original) rear wheel, and a slightly less used front GRL that's mounted on my road bike spare trainer wheel (originally belonging to a Triban 500).

For now I think I will put that GRL on the front (with a tyre liner inside), and order a pair of Ralsons - 23c if their tubes are specific to 23 and 25, and 25c if the tubes are shared between both sizes, so that I do not have to buy different sized inner tubes for my different sized road tyres sets.

Will call around the different ships to see if anything better is available at not stupid prices but all of us know how that's going to go ...

On the Gatorskins (or the slightly tougher Gator Hardshells that I am leaning towards now) my way of looking at it is that I can live with a slightly heavier rolling tyre but a puncture in the middle of a ride really bugs me out. Totally. So when people say that Gatorskins are heavy rolling tyres because of their puncture protection and I find them light and nice rolling, it's because my frame if reference is mainly the GRLs that have been on my road bike longest. My bike is not the lightest. I'm riding a Claris. On top of that I'm a fairly big guy who is most comfortable in the big ring. So for me a little bit of road resistance is probably something I will notice but learn to ride through and over. Punctures not so.

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 26th October 2021 at 14:32.
ebonho is offline  
Old 26th October 2021, 20:00   #6603
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 5,723
Thanked: 7,813 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Slightly clearer photos (minus the yellow flash which washes out more than it illuminates!) of the bulge in the sidewall and the damage to the outer rubber layer over the underlying thread laced carcass .

The Bicycles thread-img_20211026_194848.jpg

The Bicycles thread-img_20211026_194909.jpg

There is a moral here ... always clean your bike yourself. And inspect it while topping up the air before you ride. I did not SEE this, but FELT it while cleaning my wheel rims and tyres. I might have missed it otherwise and rode out on it ....

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 26th October 2021 at 20:14.
ebonho is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 26th October 2021, 20:16   #6604
BHPian
 
Fillmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 378
Thanked: 381 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quite some nifty gadgets here for the cycle rider



All might not be available here at present but worth a view.
Fillmore is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 27th October 2021, 06:59   #6605
Team-BHP Support
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 6,462
Thanked: 9,075 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
Quite some nifty gadgets here for the cycle rider

All might not be available here at present but worth a view.
Nice set of gadgets, on the expensive side though. That Heritage helmet looks pretty cool.

Talking about gadgets/accessories, I got this helmet yesterday

The Bicycles thread-img_2304.jpg
vb-san is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 27th October 2021, 16:18   #6606
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 5,723
Thanked: 7,813 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Talking about gadgets/accessories, I got this helmet yesterday
Very smart helmet. And MIPS too.

Cheers, Doc
ebonho is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 27th October 2021, 19:03   #6607
Team-BHP Support
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 6,462
Thanked: 9,075 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Very smart helmet. And MIPS too.

Cheers, Doc
Thank you. Got this from Specialized (Align ll); though the Mets is going strong, thought it will be better to have one more, especially that now I do roads on weekend rides. So got one with MIPS.

Noob question to you - How much of a difference does it make in speed, between a 9-speed Sora (11-32T) and say an 11-speed 105 (11-34T), and 50-34 chainring on both? Weight difference and smoothness in shifting is taken, but what are the other reasons that can impact speed (from a drivetrain POV)?
vb-san is offline  
Old 27th October 2021, 19:43   #6608
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 5,723
Thanked: 7,813 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Noob question to you - How much of a difference does it make in speed, between a 9-speed Sora (11-32T) and say an 11-speed 105 (11-34T), and 50-34 chainring on both? Weight difference and smoothness in shifting is taken, but what are the other reasons that can impact speed (from a drivetrain POV)?
Zero difference. Even if you go one lower to Claris. Assuming the same rider. All the difference is in the legs. Not the hardware.

The biggest difference between a 8 (or 9) speed and a 11 speed is not how fast you go or how steep you can climb. It's how tired you get at the end of a long ride. You need to ve a very strong rider (or one who mashes habitually) to be able to take the bigger jumps in a 8 speed. Even then depending on the gradient, wind, time in the ride, level of fatigue, you will have many moments wgere you find yourself without the correct gear, trapped in a grey zone between two gears, where you just cannot find your comfort space and cadence.

When this repeats over 100 km or more, you start feeling it and fatigue quicker than the guy riding a 11 speed with spall incremental.jumps that always put him in exactly the right gear such that his cadence never changes, nor does his degree of effort.

Cheers, Doc
ebonho is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 27th October 2021, 19:47   #6609
BHPian
 
ringoism's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Himachal
Posts: 843
Thanked: 2,485 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
So I've put the word out on my mission tourer/beater drop bar gravel/bikepacking bike build rolling frame donor bike search to my friend circle
Not sure where you're at with this, Doc, but brought this home last evening:

The Bicycles thread-img_20211027_164114.jpg

Most here may understandably ask "Why!??!", and it's mainly because it has a taller frame (23") than anything else I own, by a couple inches. And because I like to pile up scrapyard projects before a long winter...

26" wheels originally but expect it should accept 700's or at least 27.5's. Steel being easily weldable, I might just get some disc brake mounts on it to keep any wheel-size experiments simpler and to maximize the, eh, "modern appeal"...

Looks a little compact in the photo, but top tube length is also 23", which is similar to my very spacious/comfy Raleigh Conan 29er.

Got it from the same guy I bought the ACT108Max from - he's had what's left of two of these Hero Ranger "ATB"'s sitting for ages, left over from ten he originally owned/ sold. Seems to think they were great bikes, and whatever, I figured it was probably worth ₹600 (incl. the orig. straight steel handle) just to fool around with.

Vs. a modern aluminum mtb frame, even, it's definitely heavy - albeit not "heavy" like that millstone under it ("only" 4.5kg for frame incl. fork).

Its brother still had half a crankset, BB, stem, handle & seat, all in steel, and showed somewhere around 8kg, so building up more or less as I did the Riverside (which similarly weighed 5kg bare), I'd target in the region of 13.5-14kg finished, but with a more spacious frame probably better suited to my physique than that one is...

Very neat butted welds here. Note the original Hero-logo'd center-pull cantilevers - I never knew any Indian bike had come with those...

Now if I can just get that rusted seat-post out...
(Winter project indeed)

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 27th October 2021 at 19:56.
ringoism is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 27th October 2021, 19:55   #6610
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 5,723
Thanked: 7,813 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Not sure where you're at with this, Doc, but brought this home last evening:

-Eric
Finally a proper 90s steel MTB frame! Spindatt will be proud.

My Hercules Top Gear has center pull cantilevers too.
ebonho is offline  
Old 28th October 2021, 07:10   #6611
Team-BHP Support
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 6,462
Thanked: 9,075 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Zero difference. Even if you go one lower to Claris. Assuming the same rider. All the difference is in the legs. Not the hardware.

The biggest difference between a 8 (or 9) speed and a 11 speed is not how fast you go or how steep you can climb. It's how tired you get at the end of a long ride. You need to be a very strong rider (or one who mashes habitually) to be able to take the bigger jumps in a 8 speed. Even then depending on the gradient, wind, time in the ride, level of fatigue, you will have many moments where you find yourself without the correct gear, trapped in a grey zone between two gears, where you just cannot find your comfort space and cadence.

When this repeats over 100 km or more, you start feeling it and fatigue quicker than the guy riding a 11 speed with spall incremental jumps that always put him in exactly the right gear such that his cadence never changes, nor does his degree of effort.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. And the spacing between higher gears seems pretty similar between 9/10/11 speeds. So effectively its about preserving energy and developing on the ability to push.
vb-san is offline  
Old 28th October 2021, 12:59   #6612
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 5,723
Thanked: 7,813 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Thank you for the detailed explanation. And the spacing between higher gears seems pretty similar between 9/10/11 speeds. So effectively its about preserving energy and developing on the ability to push.
In general, the jumps between the higher gears (smaller cogs) is lower than those between the lower gears (bigger cogs). But the effect (feel) on your legs of a 1 or 2 tooth jump at the higher end is the same (slightly more in the lower speed systems like 8 speed in fact) as to 3 to 4 to even 5-6 tooth jump at the lower end. The job of gears is primarily to get you over terrain, but co-primarily (not secondarily) to allow you to tap out a steady cadence at a steady hear rate while doing so.

Do remember (and I commented on this recently on You Tube when some armchair gear snobs were dissing Claris on a DurianRider video) that just 20-30 years ago, pro riders were racing in the Alps on the world pro tour with 2 and 6 speed threaded freewheels and 52-42 race cranks. I know for a fact that they chuckle with derision at what they consider saucer (dinner plate?) sized 11-32 cassettes (they spent their racing and climbing lives never going lower than 23 or max 25) and positively baulk at what they consider very cissy/granny 52-36 or (shudder/cringe) 50-34 modern semi compact and compact cranksets.

Cheers, Doc
ebonho is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 28th October 2021, 13:07   #6613
BHPian
 
Fillmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 378
Thanked: 381 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Zero difference Even if you go one lower to Claris. Assuming the same rider. All the difference is in the legs. Not the hardware.

The biggest difference between a 8 (or 9) speed and a 11 speed is not how fast you go or how steep you can climb. It's how tired you get at the end of a long ride.
While the rest of your explanation is spot on, why do you say Zero difference ?

If it was Zero difference why would bike/component manufacturers bother to come up with so many different cog sizes ?

It does make a difference, take a 11x36 Cassette vs a 11x28 Cassette, climbing on the 11x36 for steep climbs definitely would be much easier than taking the same incline on a 11x28. Premium MTB's now come with 11x51 Cassettes , I bet you will not be able to make the same climb with a 11x32 given the same level of effort put in.

In the intermediate range no doubt there will be a lot of overlapping gear combos when it comes to a 3x8 or 3x10 front/rear gear set. That's one reason I was looking out for a 2x10 set maybe where you have a High teeth count for the climbs at the rear Cassette , at the same time you have a decent 11 for flat roads. Might not go as fast as a road bike , but heck if you can go at 25kmph is good enough for most folks.
Fillmore is offline  
Old 28th October 2021, 13:48   #6614
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 5,723
Thanked: 7,813 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
While the rest of your explanation is spot on, why do you say Zero difference ?

If it was Zero difference why would bike/component manufacturers bother to come up with so many different cog sizes ?

It does make a difference, take a 11x36 Cassette vs a 11x28 Cassette, climbing on the 11x36 for steep climbs definitely would be much easier than taking the same incline on a 11x28. Premium MTB's now come with 11x51 Cassettes , I bet you will not be able to make the same climb with a 11x32 given the same level of effort put in.

In the intermediate range no doubt there will be a lot of overlapping gear combos when it comes to a 3x8 or 3x10 front/rear gear set. That's one reason I was looking out for a 2x10 set maybe where you have a High teeth count for the climbs at the rear Cassette , at the same time you have a decent 11 for flat roads. Might not go as fast as a road bike , but heck if you can go at 25kmph is good enough for most folks.
But we are not comparing apples to bananas in terms of different gear ranges or a "road" close ratio cassette (11-25) versus a wide ratio cassette (11-32 or 11-34) or "MTB/Gravel 1x" cassette (11-36 to 11-50).

We are comparing identical gear range (eg. 11-32) between a 8-9 speed versus a 11 speed. For a road group-set hierarchy like Shimano or SRAM.

8, 9, 10, and 11 speed cassettes, all have 11-25, 11-28, and 11-32 options. So theoretically your top end and steepest climbing gear in all are the same.

Its the effort in between that differs.

More gears in between simply means smaller jumps and more available ratios to select from for the same level of resistance (gradient, wind, etc.)

For instance, I have two 8 speed cassettes:

11-12-14-16-18-21-26-32

12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32

The second cassette foregoes the highest 11t cog, with 12 being the highest, and puts that extra cog as an additional ratio in the climbing range of the cassette, on either side of the 26 (by now having two ratios instead of the far spaced single ratio, of a 24 and a 28, where the first cassette has just a 26 with a 5t jump from 21 and an even bigger 6t jump to 32).

This is a very nice article by Gordon Brown ...

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html

Cheers, Doc

P.S. Why manufacturers do ANYTHING is eventually linked to money and profit. That is the nature of any business. This is how Gordon Brown starts -

"Bicycle Gears: 6-speed, 7-speed, 8-speed, 9-, 10-, 11-, ...?

Component manufacturers like to sell you lots of new parts, even if you don't need them. This has led to much confusion as various parts are labeled as if they are incompatible with other parts even though they are actually usable with little or no problem. Also, design often is churned by spec hype, and "keeping up with the Joneses," as in more sprockets, lighter weight, higher-priced components must be better. "Jones" is also a slang term for a drug addiction!

In reality, the fancier parts aren't always the most suitable, in the same way that a Ferrari, while it is a great racecar, isn't at all as good for daily transportation as a Toyota -- there are practical issues of cost, reliability, serviceability and durability. With bicycle components, the performance gain with higher-end models is often minuscule. Remember, you account for 80 percent of the weight even if you are riding a rather heavy bicycle!
"

Last edited by ebonho : 28th October 2021 at 13:52.
ebonho is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 28th October 2021, 14:04   #6615
Team-BHP Support
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 6,462
Thanked: 9,075 Times
Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
We are comparing identical gear range (eg. 11-32) between a 8-9 speed versus a 11 speed. For a road group-set hierarchy like Shimano or SRAM.

8, 9, 10, and 11 speed cassettes, all have 11-25, 11-28, and 11-32 options. So theoretically your top end and steepest climbing gear in all are the same.

Its the effort in between that differs.

More gears in between simply means smaller jumps and more available ratios to select from for the same level of resistance (gradient, wind, etc.)
True, the variance indeed is evident in the middle jumps.

The 11-34 9-speed cassette on my bike goes like this 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30-34
And an 11-speed 105 with the same range has 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34
vb-san is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2022, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks