[sk456]

Originally Posted by hydrashok

1.
SK456 runs a 10" IDQ in his Santro (last I heard, but you never know with the Delhi boys, heh heh) and maybe he can comment further.

Ye hydra still have the 10 inch bad boy. Even though im starting to get the upgraditis itch after hearing soem crazy installs recently , sub upgrade is not on the cards.. mayeb some dynamat Re-rolling on the doors.
Right now all the GREENS have gone for the home set up..

To come back to santosh.s .. a 10 inch works just perfectly well if you want that smooth blended sound. Im not really into heavy bass music. Maybe if I were to go the gangsta way with the HIP HOP boys I would think of one of those ID max's.. but a 10 inch IDQ is doing just fine for now.

[santosh.s]

Originally Posted by sk456

To come back to santosh.s .. a 10 inch works just perfectly well if you want that smooth blended sound. Im not really into heavy bass music. Maybe if I were to go the gangsta way with the HIP HOP boys I would think of one of those ID max's.. but a 10 inch IDQ is doing just fine for now.

I got the same recommendation from CDT officials as well. Also noticed on woofersetc site that just like CDTs, even ID 10" models are costlier than corresponding 12" versions! I think I will stick to 10", irrespective of brand I finally go with. Though I am not so particular as to kind of music I listened to, hip-hop is something that I hate (read "don't like much"!). But I tend to enjoy almost anything with a clean sounding system, which otherwise I wouldn't.

Regarding sub selection, I am quite confused. Mainly because ID has many versions in their IDQ line like v1,v2,v3, in addition to lower CTX, ID series. So is true for JL which has w0, w1... till w7 I think! All these models are spaced closely, pricewise, which makes it difficult to decide. Going with CDT sub seems like the biggest gamble, though on the other hand, I have got an impression that they have such a high standard that I can't go wrong even with the worst of their products, while spending only $100! Now there is bigger dilemma because I came to know that IDQ models aren't really as costly as I thought. They are available for around $150, while CTX and ID are $100+. Refer to following list of ID only subs sorted by price-
WoofersEtc.com - The Online Car Audio Super Store, The largest selection at the lowest prices! Brands

IDQ10V2D4 (10", dual 4-ohm) @ $160 with shipping caught my attention the most (12" is cheaper by $10, as I mentioned earlier). Are there significant differences in SQ of v1/v2/v3? Hopefully gurus should have answer since it is quite a popular sub on tbhp.

[hydrashok]

I'm not familiar with IDQv1. v3 is the most recent version. I think v2 is no longer in production. v3 has more cone area, more xmax, and can handle more power. It also goes a bit lower and a bit louder than the v2. Image Dynamics brought the sound of the IDQ a bit closer to the sound of the IDMax with the v3. v2 is quite a bit cheaper than v3.

You can't go wrong with either.

[santosh.s]

Found one more option for 2-ch amp, it is kenwood excelon which is better in terms of THD as compared to 7204, little more on power and good 1.4Kg heavier with 7A more current consumption. So, it obviously look better, without much price difference:
Kenwood Excelon KAC-X20 Car Amp New - eBay (item 200311785857 end time Mar-20-09 12:39:13 PDT)

MB quart mentioned earlier is THD wise same as this, but much lesser on rated power. It seems almost obvious to go with excelon, but still wanted to take opinion.

Regarding wiring, I am planning to use Finolex for power/ground and MX for RCA. Wanted to use Finolex 12AWG (4mm2) for speakers and sub also, but since it doesn't seem to be a recommended option I am trying to find out something to buy in US. How about following, would it be a good deal ($35 for 25ft 12AWG OFC wire)? How much quantity would I roughly need for a pair of compos and sub?
12 AWG Gauge Red Tsunami OFC Speaker Wire - Per 5 Feet - eBay (item 260347198237 end time Mar-15-09 21:08:15 PDT)

[santosh.s]

One more question- is it necessary to use "twisted" wires for speakers, like RCA's? Even though pick up of stray signals shouldn't affect speakers as such, I guess it might help creating noise. If my understanding is right, if it works like a good reception antenna, then it has to be a good radiator as well!

Please provide your suggestions soon (whether they are positive or negative). I would be very grateful because I plan to wind up everything by Sunday, and provide my friend with a list of items to be ordered.

[navin]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

One more question- is it necessary to use "twisted" wires for speakers, like RCA's? Even though pick up of stray signals shouldn't affect speakers as such, I guess it might help creating noise. If my understanding is right, if it works like a good reception antenna, then it has to be a good radiator as well!.

RCA work when signal levels are in the range of 300mv-1V. Speaker cables carry many volts. So noise pickup from speaker cables is not worrysome.

Signal carried in RCA cables get amplified hence the noise does too, signals carried in speaker cables dont.

[santosh.s]

Originally Posted by navin

RCA work when signal levels are in the range of 300mv-1V. Speaker cables carry many volts. So noise pickup from speaker cables is not worrysome.

Signal carried in RCA cables get amplified hence the noise does too, signals carried in speaker cables dont.

What I meant was that if a speaker wire is not twisted, it will certainly induce some noise into another RCA routed in the vicinity. Wouldn't this interference be minimized by using twisted pairs for speakers as well? (I don't think doing that will harm anyway!)

This raises another question in my mind- it is well known that RCAs and power lines should best be routed on different side of a vehicle. Which of these two sides is preferable for speaker wires (assuming only two routing channels- left and right)?

[santosh.s]

Update on my sub and amps selection:
Based on a lot of reading and consulting experts here, I have pretty much zeroed in on kenwood excelon KAC-X20 amp for components and KAC-8104D class-D mono for sub. Regarding the sub itself, I am sticking to CDT EF-100 10 incher.

As a last check, I referred to the "good, bad and ugly" list of car audio manufactureres in order to see if I have missed any good option within my tight budget. For amps, most of the "highly recommended" brands and specific series were well beyond reach of my little pennies (making my life easier, by getting ruled out). There was one exception- Eclipse. They have some 2-ch as well as monos that I can consider. However, power ratings are much below excelon 2-ch amp, while mono rating is similar. Are these Eclipse amps supposed to be much better than the excelon, in terms of SQ of course? If the expectation is in the same ballpark, then I would prefer higher power ratings of the excelon (big head room). For mono, I believe it may not matter much whichever I choose, but please confirm.

Regarding sub brands, there were too many "highly recommended" products in the range, and much below in fact. So, instead of wasting my time and efforts in finding out details about all of them (though already had some idea about many of them), I thought of finding out more on how good the selected CDT sub is. To my pleasant surprise, it only reinforced my impression of these being highly towards SQ. Looks like they are not as popular as ID and JL in US, I came across a few reviews in Russian (and what not, thanks to google translation!), which claimed that they "blew" JL w3's in terms of accurrate bass, and that they go pretty low as well. One guy put them in the same league as RE subs, having heard many audiofile subs. So, all in all I am going to stick to them, I don't think I will be disappointed.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

... assuming only two routing channels- left and right

Why only 2? You have the central spline of the vehicle also, where - unless the floor is absolutely flat - you can have 2 more routing channels about 20cm apart. And these will be far enough from the ones near the door sill.

[navin]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

What I meant was that if a speaker wire is not twisted, it will certainly induce some noise into another RCA routed in the vicinity.

theotretically yes but..
My earlier (1980s) car audio systems used twisted speaker cable (Kimber 4TC/8TC) and when I switched to non-twisted pair I did not hear any more noise than with 4TC.

[santosh.s]

Guys, any comments on Eclipse amps? Though I haven't specified exact models, what is the general perception about these amps (more specifically relative to Kenwood/excelon)?

I will wait till I hear something, before "locking" the list of items and asking my friend to place orders.

[santosh.s]

Well, finally I have taken the plunge! Orders have been made and confirmed.

Nothing from original selection changed much except for amps. Instead of 4-channel Power Acoustic (thank God!), chose Kenwood amps. Here is the damage (including shipping as applicable):

CDT CL-62 components- $150
CDT EF-100 10" sub- $110
Clarion DXZ785USB HU- $140
Kenwood Excelon KAC-X20 2-ch/class A-B amp- $118
Kenwood KAC-8104D class-D mono amp- $111

Total for main components- $629

Rupee has depreciated to it's worst these days, but even with current exchange rate it sums up to Rs. 32K.

The difficult part is that I have to wait for another 2-3 weeks before I get to see them. This is my first shot ever (that too in the dark) at high quality audio in a true sense! Wish me luck!!

BTW, my sincere thanks to all experts and novices alike, who helped me in the forum, through PMs and over phone.

[ankit_chd]

Man nice components( CDT CL-62 components ). congrats

[santosh.s]

Thanks Ankit, I hope they live up to their expectations even when paired with Kenwood excelon!

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

CDT CL-62 components- $150
CDT EF-100 10" sub- $110
Clarion DXZ785USB HU- $140
Kenwood Excelon KAC-X20 2-ch/class A-B amp- $118
Kenwood KAC-8104D class-D mono amp- $111

Total for main components- $629

I would agree on the compos but I would suggest a bigger sub since you are having a sedan. For the amps you can have the following options...

http://new.woofersetc.com/p4574/EF12...-Subwoofer.htm

http://new.woofersetc.com/p4630/EF61...25-Tweeter.htm

JL Audio G4500 Multi-channel Amps Car Amplifiers Car Audio and Video - Sonic Electronix

JBL PX300.4 (px3004) Multi-channel Amps Car Amplifiers Car Audio and Video - Sonic Electronix

** CLOSEOUT!! ** Eclipse XA4000 Multi-channel Amps Car Amplifiers Car Audio and Video - Sonic Electronix

JL Audio A4300 Multi-channel Amps Car Amplifiers Car Audio and Video - Sonic Electronix



I would not suggest you the Kenwood amps as they are just over rated to me..I was doing the testing with the Kenwood 9103 at 1 ohms and it could not able to control the sub, the sub was singing of it own even if the drum kick stop. A good 4 channel would be better bet.