[DrPriyankT]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

When the LCH goes beserk!! Must be a video from their gun and rocket pod testing.

Superb video! This chopper is tailor made for India. It’s even operable in the upper reaches of the Himalayas near Siachen and near the LAC, somewhere the Apache can’t even dream of going. All it now misses is a fully integrated helicopter launched Nag anti tank missile, which has finally cleared trials.

This chopper along with the Apache will be the tip of the spear of the army’s integrated battle groups in the future. It’s a perfect example of a home developed product and if it serves us well, it has a bright future in the export market too.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

When the LCH goes beserk!! Must be a video from their gun and rocket pod testing.

Were there some animals which were thrown or ran outward from impact area towards the end of the video!?

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Were there some animals which were thrown or ran outward from impact area towards the end of the video!?

No, its objects that have flown and crashed around. Doesn't seem like animals. Interestingly, I didn't see any blast in that black & white (probably IR?) display output. Probably rockets without explosives OR some kinetic energy based gun shells were used?

(Animals can't run that fast or become airborne like they have in the video. And if hit by such shells / rockets, they won't fly around so far. They'll get blown to bits where they are pretty much.)

[Rob UK]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Thanks!

That landing gear retraction immediately after nose up is crazy! Shows how much stable lift the wings generate. As said before, crazy low level flying especially over the humid sea. Those pilots got lots of "courage", decently said.

I still remember my first flight on a Diamond katana 42 over a humid lake (in summer), it was no less than a roller coaster. I salute these guys flying so low and so fast. But all in all, these flights were relatively clean (not much of a weapons load on external pylons). I am curious to see how this might have performed under full load flying so low.

Those boundary layer vents were an invention/discovery during its time. The DB9 or DB10 (Aston Martin) rear air curtain was inspired by this, as said by one of its developers.

Looooong gap in replying to this, but the whole design of the Buccaneer was predicated on low altitude stability & speed, so it had an internal weapons bay with rotating doors to enable opening at high speed. It was capable of carrying up to 12,000lb internally, so various payload configuarations including 4x Sea Eagle anti shipping missiles or a 20 kiloton nuke could be carried "clean" - there were also 4x external hardpoints for another 4,000lb of weapons / kit - some of the Buccaneers in the video are pictured fully loaded with all 4 hardpoints in use, but they still look fairly clean as far less needed to be carried outside than most attack aircraft.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Rob UK

..... but the whole design of the Buccaneer was predicated on low altitude stability & speed, so it had an internal weapons bay with rotating doors to enable opening at high speed. ....but they still look fairly clean as far less needed to be carried outside than most attack aircraft.

One of the best aerodynamic designs of a lo-lo attack aircraft ever. I would have loved it if a Buccaneer with later generation engines and more modern avionics were to be developed { this is just a part of my Hema Malini dream sequence, alas never to be}. The structure and aerodynamics, flight surfaces etc I'd leave as it is - that's how good the design is. The only tweak I'd make is a small LERX {leading edge root extension} to increase chord and reduce 'g' bumps at low level high speed flight.

[AlphaKilo]

Great day coming up for IAF, May 27th, the second Tejas squadron is being formed at sulur, "flying bullets".

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Great day coming up for IAF, May 27th, the second Tejas squadron is being formed at sulur, "flying bullets".

any idea when they will be stationed on a forward base like Ambala or Jamnagar?

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

any idea when they will be stationed on a forward base like Ambala or Jamnagar?

Might be after a year or so. The first squadron has already put the SOPs in place for a squadron with a new kind/type of aircraft. So, setting this one up should be quick, as soon as the full squadron strength is reached and the young aviators are trained in the SOPs, they will move out, paving way for the third squadron which might be stationed here permenantly.

[himanshugoswami]

One q for those in the know of things. Is the spool time of Tejas better than mig 21? Since it’s primary role is that of an interceptor it needs to get airborne quickly and this is one area in which the mig is good.

[DrPriyankT]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

One q for those in the know of things. Is the spool time of Tejas better than mig 21? Since it’s primary role is that of an interceptor it needs to get airborne quickly and this is one area in which the mig is good.

Sir, most probably it's due to the fact that the Mig uses a simpler turbojet engine while the Tejas has a turbofan engine. Also we need to remember the mig is a plane from the 50's and 60's when the air defence radars and SAM's didn't have the range they have today, due to which point defence interceptors had to spool up faster and get airborne to counter the enemy threat.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

One q for those in the know of things. Is the spool time of Tejas better than mig 21? Since it’s primary role is that of an interceptor it needs to get airborne quickly and this is one area in which the mig is good.

Going by my SIM experience and from hear-say, I would put the numbers anywhere between 5 - 8 secs, depending on the altitude of operation and the atmospheric conditions at that point of time. Ideally, the spool-up can happen within 3 - 3.5 secs. Some official docs below from where I got my numbers.

https://www.geaviation.com/sites/def...404-Family.pdf

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a164562.pdf - From Page 21 onwards (A/B Lighting times graphs)

https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/IC...S-84-5.4.2.pdf

Originally Posted by DrPriyankT

Sir, most probably it's due to the fact that the Mig uses a simpler turbojet engine while the Tejas has a turbofan engine. Also we need to remember the mig is a plane from the 50's and 60's when the air defence radars and SAM's didn't have the range they have today, due to which point defence interceptors had to spool up faster and get airborne to counter the enemy threat.

0.34:1 is the bypass ratio for the F404 engine. It is basically a low-by pass ratio engine which could be compared with a turbojet engine in terms of performance/characteristics. Usually, even by military standards, its low efficiency. High by-pass (higher fuel efficiency) is usually the case for strike aircrafts where range is very important over quick performance.

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

One q for those in the know of things. Is the spool time of Tejas better than mig 21? Since it’s primary role is that of an interceptor it needs to get airborne quickly and this is one area in which the mig is good.

From here, I see that the R-11 and the R-25 Tumansky engines had a spool up time of around 10 - 15 secs (including the light-up/Reheat time of around 3 secs) and lots of pilots who have flown it, discourage pilots from idling and pushing the throttle up during holding patterns or in circuits.


https://books.google.de/books?id=LyB...20R-25&f=false

[AlphaKilo]

Another marvellous video from tarmak talking on Helina missile test fire from rudra.

https://youtu.be/Zm-E-pYTEr4

[DrPriyankT]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Another marvellous video from tarmak talking on Helina missile test fire from rudra.

Again, a superb video. The Rudra-LCH combination armed with Helina and Mistral Missile combination will greatly aid our IBG's in the plains and deserts, and due to their high altitude capability, will be useful in close air support missions in the high altitude regions of Kashmir, Ladakh and the northeast.

Infact, the advanced sensors of the Apache, can help in providing targeting data to the homegrown birds, and they can be a perfect Hi-Lo combination, something akin to F-16/F-15 combination or the Mig-29/Sukhoi-30 combination.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by DrPriyankT

Infact, the advanced sensors of the Apache, can help in providing targeting data to the homegrown birds, and they can be a perfect Hi-Lo combination, something akin to F-16/F-15 combination or the Mig-29/Sukhoi-30 combination.

I think you meant the air superiority squadrons where the USAF pairs an F-22 with F-15s in what is for them, a relative hi-lo mix.

That being said, I think the concept of using the Apache's in that manner with Rudra's and LCH's is definitely something worth examining. The Longbow system is the finest battle tested imaging and radar suite for rotary wing platforms out there so would definitely be rather clever to use our Apache's in the quarterback role and have them vector domestic assets. As I see it, the true difficulty is in the systems integration but I imagine if the IAF can nail it, would really be an excellent force multiplier. I would also Love the irony considering the US Army has their scout helicopter tender out right now for a lighter armed rotary platform to complement the chunkier Apache's if India ends up coming up with an effective tandem team situation with our Rudra's and LCH's.

[DrPriyankT]

Originally Posted by ads11

I think you meant the air superiority squadrons where the USAF pairs an F-22 with F-15s in what is for them, a relative hi-lo mix.

That being said, I think the concept of using the Apache's in that manner with Rudra's and LCH's is definitely something worth examining. The Longbow system is the finest battle tested imaging and radar suite for rotary wing platforms out there so would definitely be rather clever to use our Apache's in the quarterback role and have them vector domestic assets. As I see it, the true difficulty is in the systems integration but I imagine if the IAF can nail it, would really be an excellent force multiplier. I would also Love the irony considering the US Army has their scout helicopter tender out right now for a lighter armed rotary platform to complement the chunkier Apache's if India ends up coming up with an effective tandem team situation with our Rudra's and LCH's.

My bad for the goof up in the high-lo mix example. Yes, definitely, the Longbow system of the Apache, currently has no competition in terms of quality of targeting data and the range at which its obtained. The funny thing is earlier Model A/B apache's had OH-58 Kiowas to act as scouts and targeting buudies, a role which was then to be taken over by the stealthier RAH-66 commanche, which got cancelled, but nowadays the presence of drones and the longbow,they sort off negated the need for a dedicated scout chopper, however they now do have a scout chopper program under consideration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future...sance_Aircraft

Coming to the Indian scenario, the Apache can sit back and provide quality data to the Rudra/LCH who are smaller birds with lower RCS to creep in close and let loose their missiles on enemy targets. As a matter of fact a millimeter wave Nag missile is under development which can hypothetically take data from the longbow, and use it to fire Nag missiles, provided we integrate them. Also, it would be better to keep the Apache a bit behind our territory as only half of the few apache's we will have will be longbow equipped, making them a precious asset.