[dragracer567]

Quick updates on the Red Sea/Northern Arabian Sea situation:

Seems like India is taking the lead and has fielded more vessels - with the INS Chennai & INS Visakhapatnam being on patrol as well where they join the Kolkata class compatriots - the INS Kolkata and INS Kochi and the other operational Visakhapatnam class counterpart - the INS Murmagao (which is investigating the earlier drone attack) across the Arabian Sea while the INS Kolkata specifically is at the mouth of the Red Sea. I've read in some places that INS Trishul - a Talwar class frigate is fielded as well.

This is pretty serious firepower for a single mission in the Indian context, it includes all the Kolkata class destroyers & all the operational Visakhapatnam class destroyers (apart from the newly inducted INS Imphal) i.e all the destroyers from the Western fleet. I'm surprised all these ships are operational at the same time since I assumed that the idea is that atleast half the ships from the same class would be on-refit, on port or headed to port (as a general military rule). I assume these ships are used as they are all equipped with the MF Star AESA radar which is much more capable of picking up smaller objects like drones. Also, these ships should have better networking capabilities - with data pooled from multiple ships to have better situational awareness. All this is augmented by the ubiquitous P8s & the leased seaguardians. If I'm not mistaken, this means that the Indian Navy has deployed the second-highest firepower after the US Navy in this mission (the Chinese are staying out except for a Type 052D destroyer tailing an Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group for intel according to the TWZ article), so India is coming on its own as a guarantor of maritime security - a crucial role as America recedes from the Middle East and we will need the ships to fulfill this role - to safeguard our economic interests & trade as a growing superpower. Moreover, the Americans are stretched thin with deployments in the Mediterranean and Northern Red Sea as well. I assume all these ships would be dependent on the Barak 8 missile for defense given that shorter-range missiles like the VL-SRSAM aren't ready yet.

The Americans meanwhile have resorted to using fighter jets - specifically F/A-18s to shoot down a lot of these projectiles (missiles/drones) just as the Saudis and Israelis before them.

More on the Indian deployments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UgU...annel=ThePrint

Meanwhile, INS Imphal - the third ship of the Visakhapatnam class was commissioned this week. I guess once INS Surat - the last ship of the class is commissioned next year, there would be a significant gap before we receive our next destroyers - the giant Project 18 class which would be more similar to the Chinese Type 055s.

[fhdowntheline]

I dont know why, but I do not like this "Americanization" of our Armed Forces. Meaning, that they be deployed for fighting some one else's war. We have nothing to do directly with any of the middle east conflicts except to ensure our trade interests are protected. And that can be done through non-military means as well.
We do not have the capability to mess around with a region thousands of km away from our own shores and yet defend the mainland equally well. Why are we even taking up this responsibility. What if we are caught off guard in our own backyard ?

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I dont know why, but I do not like this "Americanization" of our Armed Forces. Meaning, that they be deployed for fighting some one else's war. We have nothing to do directly with any of the middle east conflicts except to ensure our trade interests are protected. And that can be done through non-military means as well.
We do not have the capability to mess around with a region thousands of km away from our own shores and yet defend the mainland equally well. Why are we even taking up this responsibility. What if we are caught off guard in our own backyard ?

I get what you are saying, I'd be lying if I said this didn't cross my mind as well. Perhaps folks who've seen more of the world like V. Narayan or Smartcat could weigh in but some of my thoughts:

1) I doubt our armed forces would ever be as 'Americanised' as being deployed in an expeditionary role to fight someone else's war except perhaps within our neighborhood - where our armed forces have always been active.

2) However, our armed forces have always been a net provider of security within our region and the IOR, for example, we did see this kind of deployment during the height of Somali piracy. Countries like Mauritius, Seychelles, Madagascar and Maldives has always been in our maritime sphere of influence though there was an inward turn in the 90s and 2000s which is why it feels uncomfortable to see the Indian Navy more engaged in the IOR again. Even then, the Indian Navy patrolled East African shores during summits there during the early 2010s as these countries didn't have the capability to protect their shores.

3) This deployed area isn't that far away from our shores to begin with. The Western fleet is primarily targeted at Pakistan and the farthest ship - then INS Kolkata is probably less than 3-5 days sailing time away while the rest of the ships are probably less than 30 hours away i.e the same as sailing from Kochi to the Pakistani EEZ. This is not that far from our shore unlike say deploying in the South China Sea. This is why the Indian Navy was forced to deploy, it's too close to home for comfort. While they haven't announced as such, according to some posts on Twitter, even the Pakistanis have deployed the PNS Tughril - their most advanced frigate in the region, they probably can't afford to deploy more than one ship at this point, unlike the Indian navy.

[fhdowntheline]

I think it would be safe to say that the threat level and weaponry capability employed in current middle east conflicts exceeds that which would be along the East African coast. The geopolitics in the Middle East is so complicated that it is a diplomatic tightrope with metal serrations for India IF it chooses to enter the politics there. So far we have wisely focused exclusively on trade and kept our hands free for any negotiations. One wrong military move can upset the balance. Already we have had to do some maneuvering with Qatar. The US by contrast , would not care for the consequences as long as Wall Street and the weapons lobby are not affected.

[Gansan]

The ship which was hit some 300 km off the Gujarat coast - how was it hit? Is it possible for the Houthis to hit it with drones so far away from Yemen?

What if it was some mischief orchestrated from our own neighborhood to try and affect oil supplies to India, cause fuel prices to rise during the run up to the lok sabha polls and cause discomfort for the ruling party? The opposition can use it to beat the ruling party with in their election campaign. Some of whom are even known for being in bed with the enemy. It may not be a coincidence at all.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I think it would be safe to say that the threat level and weaponry capability employed in current middle east conflicts exceeds that which would be along the East African coast. The geopolitics in the Middle East is so complicated that it is a diplomatic tightrope with metal serrations for India IF it chooses to enter the politics there. So far we have wisely focused exclusively on trade and kept our hands free for any negotiations. One wrong military move can upset the balance. Already we have had to do some maneuvering with Qatar. The US by contrast , would not care for the consequences as long as Wall Street and the weapons lobby are not affected.

True, though it would be almost impossible for India to get stuck in the politics of the Middle East. To understand why, let's look at the various factions within the Middle East:

1) The Saudi-UAE-Egypt faction which Israel frequently allies with. This is the faction with which India is the closest right now but this faction isn't fully coherent. Saudi doesn't recognize Israel (and probably won't for a while due to the war) while there are powerplays between Saudi and UAE as well with them supporting opposing factions in Yemen, Sudan and Libya.

2) The Qatar-Turkey faction was at its peak when the Saudi-UAE faction blockaded Qatar but the rift isn't as stark anymore with Qatar being increasingly integrated into the GCC through transport infrastructure and even common visas.

3) The Iran-Syria-Lebanon faction which is probably the most experienced military but the weakest economically.

Now, India has decent relations with all three factions with the strongest relations being with the Saudi-UAE-Israel faction. The Qatar-Turkey faction has been causing trouble for us, mainly because they want to project themselves as the savior of the Muslim world, if anything they've been causing more trouble with the West than us despite being dependent on them economically, politically and militarily. Iran is a very key partner as well, given the shared border and enmity with Pakistan as well as various cultural reasons. With strong positive relations with all factions, it would be impossible for India to get militarily involved as who would we be protecting them against? Another key partner of ours? Another reason is the fact that countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE are already playing an outsized role in the region, reducing the need for external actors. Further, we have to remember that the US hasn't disengaged from the Middle East yet, most of the talk has been rhetoric. An interesting example is the massive US naval base barely 5 km from where I'm living right now which hosts the US Navy's 5th fleet. And 100 km across a small body of water is the Al-Udeid airbase in Qatar which hosts the US Central Command with more than 100 planes while another 150 km away is the Al Dhafra Air Base in the UAE which hosts more US military planes. This is apart from smaller bases & deployments in Oman, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia which aren't publically announced due to local sensibilities. So, it would be a couple of decades atleast before there is a power vacuum here that we are forced to fill (perhaps most likely to prevent China from filling this vacuum, but it's a long time away).

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I dont know why, but I do not like this "Americanization" of our Armed Forces. Meaning, that they be deployed for fighting some one else's war.

The deployment of the additional IN ships was because of the attack on an India (Mangalore) bound ship not far from Indian territorial waters. The Navy, directed by the government, was going to react to safeguard our waters and sea lanes.

Before the attack on the Chem Pluto, two IN ships - one of them a Krivak III/Talwar Class Frigate, were already on anti-piracy duty in the Gulf of Aden. IN has been contributing ships to prevent piracy related attacks on merchant ships. There have been many occasions where IN ships have saved India flagged merchant vessels from Somali pirates.

I believe it was INS Kochi that tailed that MV Ruen when it was hijacked by Somali pirates earlier this month(their first successful hijacking in six years) and MARCOS evacuated the badly injured Bulgarian sailor from that ship. There has no updates on the fate of the Ruen since then.

On a side note, it is now known that two PLAN vessels on so-called anti-piracy operations in the same area ignored messages for help from a merchant vessel under attack, putting in doubt the credibility, dedication and professionalism of the PLAN.

The first decisive action against Houthi rebels was taken this morning and it involved MH-60 helicopters of the US Navy, which fired AGM-114 Hellfire missiles to sink 3 of 4 Houthi boats that fired at and tried to board the Maersk Hangzhou - a container vessel.

Iranian-backed Houthi small boats attack merchant vessel and U.S. Navy helicopters in Southern Red Sea

On Dec. 31 at 6:30am (Sanaa time) the container ship MAERSK HANGZHOU issued a second distress call in less than 24 hours reporting being under attack by four Iranian-backed Houthi small boats. The small boats, originating from Houthi-controlled areas in Yemen, fired crew served and small arms weapons at the MAERSK HANGZHOU, getting to within 20 meters of the vessel, and attempted to board the vessel. A contract embarked security team on the MAERSK HANZGHOU returned fire. U.S. helicopters from the USS EISENHOWER (CVN 69) and GRAVELY (DDG 107) responded to the distress call and in the process of issuing verbal calls to the small boats, the small boats fired upon the U.S. helicopters with crew served weapons and small arms. The U.S. Navy helicopters returned fire in self-defense, sinking three of the four small boats, and killing the crews. The fourth boat fled the area. There was no damage to U.S. personnel or equipment.

[dragracer567]

Interesting graphic by @SchizoIntel on the placement of various ships in the IOR 2 days ago.

4 Indian Navy ships in the Gulf of Aden with another 2 closer to the Indian mainland. This is apart from the Coast Guard vessels. Note the three Chinese ships in the Gulf of Aden though they are playing hands-off (despite the base at Djibouti). Just shows the scale of deployments in the North-Western IOR.

PS this is open-source (and at this point, antiquated) data.

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Interesting graphic by @SchizoIntel on the placement of various ships in the IOR 2 days ago.

What I find intriguing is the approx location of of the Iranian ship- MV Saviz. While it may not be in that location as shown on the map, Iran has been known to use spy and military supply ships capable of launching suicide drones, disguised as merchant ships. In open seas, Drone Attacks launched from such ships will be very difficult to detect or stop.

What if the Chem Pluto was struck by a drone launched from such a ship? In such a case, our Defence Minister would not be able to pinpoint or search for the perpetrator of such an attack even from the "deepest depth of seas"!!!

[skanchan95]

Somali Pirates hijacked merchant vessel Liberia flagged MV Lila Norfolk 300 nautical miles east of Somalia on Jan 4, 2024. The vessel has 15 Indian crew onboard.

The ship was en route from Brazil to Bahrain. Indian Navy's destroyer Kolkata class destroyer - INS Chennai is heading towards the hijacked ship, trying to establish communication with the crew/hijackers.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

.

PS this is open-source (and at this point, antiquated) data.

To the best of my knowledge there is no standardized tracking system for merchant ships, let alone for navy vessels.

All the ships will have AIS. But AIS is primarily about ship to ship communication in order to avoid collisions. AIS signals can and are picked up by all kinds of places. From coast guards to amateurs having an AIS receiver antenna on the roof of their shed. (similar to flight radar app).

All of the various land based sources send their data to several global players who aggregate this data on global and regional data. Due to the nature of how the data is gathered, transmitted, received and collected, it never represents anything remotely as an accurate representation of what is happening out there.

So whereas these sort of image represent to some extend how busy these sea lanes are, you can not draw any conclusions from them how close ships are next to each other. Because all the ships will have been at the location shown, but the time at which that was captured is going to be very different for all these ships.

Also, the scale of the map and the symbols representing ships are completely incorrect of course. At the scale of this map even the largest vessels would not be visible, less than a pin prick.

Jeroen

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Somali Pirates hijacked merchant vessel Liberia flagged MV Lila Norfolk 300 nautical miles east of Somalia on Jan 4, 2024. The vessel has 15 Indian crew onboard.

The ship was en route from Brazil to Bahrain. Indian Navy's destroyer Kolkata class destroyer - INS Chennai is heading towards the hijacked ship, trying to establish communication with the crew/hijackers.

Indians On Board Hijacked Ship Rescued By Navy Commandos

All Indians On Board Hijacked Ship Rescued By Navy Commandos

The elite commandos, MARCOS, sanitised the top deck of the cargo ship and rescued the 15 Indians aboard the ship in the Arabian Sea.


All 21 crew, including Indians, aboard the cargo ship, 'MV Lila Norfolk', that was hijacked late last evening near the coast of Somalia have been rescued and are safe, said officials.

The Navy deployed a warship, maritime patrol aircraft, helicopters and P-8I and long-range aircraft and Predator MQ9B drones following the incident involving MV Lila Norfolk.

The elite commandos, MARCOS, sanitised the cargo ship and rescued the 15 Indians aboard the ship in the Arabian Sea. The commandos have confirmed the absence of hijackers on the ship, said the Navy in a statement.

All 21 crew including 15 Indians onboard the vessel were safely evacuated from the citadel," Indian Navy's spokesperson Commander Vivek Madhwal said.

"Sanitisation by MARCOS commandos has confirmed the absence of the hijackers. The attempt of hijacking by the pirates was probably abandoned with the forceful warning by Indian Navy's maritime patrol aircraft of interception by naval warship," the spokesperson added.

The hijacking was reported by the UK Maritime Trade Operations (UKMTO), a British military organisation that tracks movements of various vessels in strategic waterways.

Naval warship INS Chennai, a navy destroyer, that was diverted from its anti-piracy patrol, launched its helicopter and issued warning to pirates to abandon the hijacked vessel.

Last month the Navy deployed several warships into the sea to "maintain a deterrent presence" after a string of recent shipping attacks, including a drone attack near India's coast blamed on Iran by the United States.

The latest attack comes at a time when many vessels have been rerouted from the Red Sea, where Yemen's Iran-backed Houthi rebels have carried out drone and missile attacks in solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza, where Israel is battling Hamas.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Indians On Board Hijacked Ship Rescued By Navy Commandos

The visuals are quite dramatic. The quick response with numerous backup assets available - P8, MQ-9 and a helicopter due to close proximity to the motherland. We’ve always been a bulwark against piracy in this region having conducted such operations during the peak of the Somali piracy.

Not sure if this feed is from the MQ-9 or the helicopter but the shakes in the feed seem to indicate the latter.

https://youtu.be/9dEwW3alHMg?si=JstMJWsUh6g1eMo1

[itwasntme]

Hilarious! Clear visibility and ‘victim’ moored in their own base while the ‘attacker’ skilfully backs into the former at a good pace.

I’ve seen Hooghly river ferries berth alongside each other more expertly.

https://youtu.be/tefY7S7J9T4?feature=shared

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Hilarious! Clear visibility and ‘victim’ moored in their own base while the ‘attacker’ skilfully backs into the former at a good pace.

On the topic of the UK navy, there's news going around that the UK is looking to retire early their Albion class amphibious ships due to staff and budget shortages. These ships have atleast 10-15 years of life in them. Considering the Indian Navy is looking to plug its amphibious capability, wont these ships be an ideal stop gap measure. Among the three forces the Indian navy has been the most pragmatic, I hope they look into the possibilities.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/shap...oogle_vignette