[ChiragM]

I got an opportunity to visit Pravaig Dynamics to understand what the company is about and their vision. I also got a chance to check out their "prototype" electric car called the Extinction. Note: This is strictly a prototype only.

• Our older Pravaig thread (India's Tesla? Pravaig Extinction MK1 Electric Sedan) also has a lot of information!

• Pravaig Dynamics is an Indian car maker based in Bangalore. They also have an office in Delhi. The company has 72 employees.

• Pravaig is funded by Eren Groupe, a French energy company.

• Interestingly, according to Pravaig, the future of mobility will not be private car ownership. They feel that people should not buy cars at all. The company claims that there will be no showroom to sell their cars and the same will be available on a subscription basis only. Pravaig wants to "sell kilometres, not cars".

Pravaig is located at the KIADB industrial area in Bangalore:


The office and workshop are new. They moved there in January, but nothing had been put in place when I visited, due to the lockdown:


• The battery for these cars will be made in-house in this workshop. A crane has been set up inside and the required machines have been imported from Germany. The cars will be built by an OEM based in Pune.

The main reason for my visit - the Extinction. This is the 6th prototype:


• Contrary to popular belief, Pravaig's first car (name yet to be decided) will be a premium alternative to the mundane cabs that ply around in our metros. The car will be targeted at chauffer-driven commuters.

• The first batch will be limited to 2,500 cars and will be available only in Delhi and Bangalore. Later, it could be made available in more cities.

• Targeted customers are corporates who need cars to ferry important guests around, boutique hotels who need a luxurious car to ferry guests but do not care about the brand name (of the car), tourism companies who can offer the car on hire to tourists and airlines who offer pick-up and drop facility to their business class customers.

• As mentioned, the cars will be available only on a subscription basis to these companies and will not be sold to private buyers. Pravaig is offering unlimited km with the car. For private owners, the only way to experience a Pravaig is if the car is offered to companies with subscription models like Zoomcar Subscription / Myles Zero.

• The car maker is not looking to give only one car per customer, but rather a bunch of cars per customer. They aim to have 100 customers for the first batch of 2,500 cars.

• The best seat in the car will be the rear passenger seat. The company aims to provide a luxurious business class-like seat for passengers to catch up on a nap or get some work done on the move.

• Some of the features expected to be offered on the car include an air purification system, laptop charger and a big mirror for passengers to get ready for important meetings. What's more, the rear part of the cabin can be completely separated from the front of the car with a glass screen, and passengers can lock only the rear seat and boot. This means that the driver cant access the rear and passengers can safely leave their belongings in the car.

• It will also get an app for customers to track the car's usage and increase efficiency (something like Fleet Management Apps). Additionally, it will also get an app which can be used by the passengers to control the features of the car.

• Pravaig's first car will be based on a scalable modular platform. The Extinction has a frame made of different grades of steel and a body made from fibreglass.

• The car is powered by a single electric motor powering the rear wheels and revs to 16,000 rpm. It produces 201 BHP and 300 Nm. The 0-100 km/h time is said to be 5.4 seconds, and the car maker claims that it can do 220 km/h, but the top speed has been limited to 196 km/h. The car has a 96 kWh battery pack and weighs around 2,000 kg.

• The battery for the car will be made in-house. Cells for the battery pack are imported from South Korea. The pack consists of 5,000 cells, weighs 500 kg and is placed on the floor of the car. With a usage of 200-250 km/day, Pravaig claims that the battery pack will last 10 years.

• Pravaig say that a car will not be given to you if there is no charging network nearby. The company is working on setting up charging infrastructure. Additionally, if you want a charging station at home / office, you need to take the car for at least a 36-month period.

• Safety features include cameras and Level 1 or Level 2 autonomy. Pravaig says they are aiming for a 5-star NCAP safety rating.

• Pravaig's first car and more details of the vehicle will be revealed sometime around Diwali 2020.

The dimensions and some design elements of this prototype will be carried over to the final car. It measures 4.9m in length:


The final body style will be a 4-door sedan. This prototype is a 2-door coupe and has been made to look sporty for the testers to have some fun with it. This one is just for testing their hardware & drivetrain:


This prototype has a co-efficient of drag of 0.26:




Pravaig lettering on the bonnet:


This LED DRL running the width of the car will be there on the production-spec cars as well:


A look at the frunk:


The side indicators:


Prototype was equipped with puddle lamps!


Flush-fitting door handles (Tesla style) will make it to the production-spec car:


This prototype rides on 17-inch wheels shod with 255/55 section rubber:


All four wheels get disc brakes:


This prototype is called "Extinction". The name for the final car has not been decided yet:


Interesting design for the lights. The last one is for the reversing lights:


The rear light has Extinction lettering on it:


The name is reflected on to the car's body:


The CCS2 charging port is placed behind the number-plate. The cover for the port (i.e. the number plate) is magnetic. Pravaig wants its production cars to have a range of ~500 km and the ability to get to an 80% charge in 30 minutes:


The prototype's bare basic interior:


The instrument cluster; don't miss the indicators on either side of the screen:


A look at the front seats:


The interior will feature a wide touchscreen infotainment system. A new system called "Ganapathy" is being developed. It will be the central system for the car's electronics as well as the ICE:


Also note the knob to vary the regen:


Unique phone holder in the prototype:


Aircraft-inspired overhead buttons for various functions of the car including the hazards and wipers. Someone is clearly having fun!


A look at the rear seat. Pravaig wants the production car to have sliding and reclinable rear seats:

[ChiragM]

Called the T1 or the T-Rex, this is the 4th prototype built:




A roll cage is fitted on the inside:


The T-Rex is powered by the Baleno sedan's G16B engine:


Called the Exponent, this is the 5th prototype built:


The car was tested in Rajasthan and boasts of 14 inches of suspension travel:


It is powered by Maruti's erstwhile 1.3L petrol engine paired to a CVT gearbox:

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the EV Forum. Thanks for sharing!

I'm all for entrepreneurship from young talent & this company is indeed dreaming big. But they have to be realistic. Developing a car, in-house batteries, apps, software, autonomous driving etc. requires ENORMOUS resources like you wouldn't believe. Even a giant like Maruti with an 80,000-crore monthly turnover & 50,000 employees realised it doesn't have it in itself and thus, Suzuki tied up with Toyota for technology. Sure, Tesla did everything that Pravaig wants to do, but Tesla is a rare exception & the only successful USA car company after the 70-80 years of GM / Ford / Chrysler being around. There also aren't too many Elon Musks around . He's one in a billion.

Example of a company which was realistic & did it well in India is Ather Energy. They started off in a limited manner, a single product, select cities and built quite a following.

IMHO, Pravaig should outsource & pick up whatever they can. E.g. no point investing in autonomous driving when other companies are willing to sell their tech. Autonomous driving software will one day be available like Google Maps is today. Ditto for EV batteries which will become a commodity.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by ChiragM

The car has a 96 kWh battery pack and weighs around 2,000 kg.

With a usage of 200-250 km/day, Pravaig claims that the battery pack will last 10 years.

Pravaig wants its production cars to have a range of ~500 km and the ability to get to an 80% charge in 30 minutes:

Aircraft-inspired overhead buttons for various functions of the car including the hazards and wipers.

Originally Posted by GTO

this company is indeed dreaming big. But they have to be realistic.

Tesla is a rare exception .There also aren't too many Elon Musks around . He's one in a billion.

Anybody can have a vision, but where it fails is in execution and in sustenance over a long term.

The Greats

1. not going the brick-and-mortar way with showrooms etc.

2. attempting a 500km range plus an 80% charge in 30 minutes

3. Life of the battery pack

The Questionables

1. A top speed of 196kmph is impractical if this car is targeted for India and several other countries

2. A 2 tonne battery will come with its share of handling issues.

3. Aircraft style buttons are just bling - will one concentrate on the road or on the buttons?

We've had great visionaries like Dhirubhai Ambani and his first son Mukesh Ambani. But, as GTO rightly says, they are a rare commodity.

Most businesses pack up because of poor execution of vision and bad top management decisions.

I hope this doesn't go that route, and end up as its prototype viz.Extinction.

[CARDEEP]

The car - Extinction, looks fab. I would love to have it parked in my driveway with a charging port. There are few rough edges, slight misalignment in one pic, interiors can be better (especially the screens) & seats more countered. But, as production will go on full steam, I'm sure these will be taken care off.

It's good to see Indian David's eager to take on the Goliaths of West.

[starke]

Myself coming from a long years of electric mobility experience which includes a lot of startups and now driving a similar entity in an OEM giant, here is my piece of summary.

• It takes a lot of hard work to setup a company and develop a proto or a poc. Compared to typical startups, these people have made something brilliant. A great progress.

• But reading through their business plan & the enormous features they claims for their product, I could only see it as a investor pitch slides for a stage 1 funding. Nothing seems to be practical

• When I said not practical, it is easily doable in a proto or for 100 cars may be, but when it comes to mass production & serial life of the vehicle, these won't stay unless they have a proven plant and supplier entities to support (Tesla struggled in this part)

• I read that some OEM will support for manufacturing their cars, in that case, a proven chassis/platform will only do the magic perk. Develop a chassis from scratch? No.

• Intrument clusters and all those aircraft like controls - A gimmick, will never come to production spec considering the homologation rules also exist.

• 96 kWh battery will be around 1MINR. So we can expect a 2MINR vehicle with a 500 km range isn't a good number. Hope they will reduce their pack capacity and efficiently squeeze out more range.

I'm in no-way discouraging the venture,but being an entrepreneur for a similar cause I understand the challenges which raises when it comes to mass production. Apart from all software/hardware related startups, when it comes to Automotive - Mass production plays a vital role.

Well, all my above views can trashed if a big OEM comes to the picture & support them both financially as well as technically

Congrats and best wishes to the team

[ramnaresh_2000]

Ok I had seen enough start-ups failing to deliver what they promised. Right now I am not excited with any claims made by start-ups. Having said that, I really want this start-up to succeed in India. I myself am ready to shell out money and buy their production ready vehicle. Reasons are below

• Unique styling and a big break from monotonous vehicles
• Claimed range of 500 kms per charge is tempting
• They are trying to replicate airplane style buttons interiors, I am sold by the concept

I wish they concentrate only on one model and perfect it. Instead of concentrating on 3-4 prototypes.

Best of luck to them. Hope they are successful.

[srishiva]

Its not easy to have a setup where you come up with a prototype and have funding. They have done lot of hardwork already.

Whats needed is the tenacity and not let go even faced with initial failures. That is what separates someone who grows and does not give up.

Not sure about our market support though. Their intent is not for selling to customers and hope they have done enough research for their model to sustain.

All the best !

[Ashish0485]

I wish them all the success. However, I think some of their assumptions (and the conceived business model) are outlandish.

Let me share an anecdote. Four years back, I was invited to Volvo’s HQ in Gothenburg, Sweden. There, in addition to driving their cars and visiting their plant, they showed us a video ‘The future of Automobiles’. They were talking about the end of ownership era, selling mobility not automobiles, one connected world, so on and so forth. After the presentation, I was having a conversation with their chief designer and I asked him what makes them believe the world is moving in this direction. He said industry analysts like yourself are edifying us. I asked what’s the timeframe. He said, a year back we were told (based on research from one of the top consulting firms) that by 2020, a significant global trend would be visible. However, I don’t see that prediction coming true even by 2025. Now, here’s the problem — analysts/advisors, to stay relevant and bring in the novelty factor, will write, speak and communicate trends that although relevant, cannot be applied to more than 5-10% of the population and most times to keep audience interested a shorter time frame of 5 yrs is communicated.
An analogy is, over the years, there have been several studies making sweeping statements that millennials in India are not interested in house ownership anymore. However, 90% of millennials still buy a house in India (basis the latest survey). So, based on the 10% that are deviating from the status quo, it’s preposterous to paint the industry buying habits with the same brush.
All I am saying is that they should focus on a business model that’s relevant for today or the foreseeable future rather than placing a bet on a distant future event, which is dependent on ‘n’ number of external factors.

[Vikki@Hyderabad]

High aspirations for a startup, IMO. It's fine to have aspirations, but replicating what they've done in small quantities in multiples is not an easy task. Costs will just balloon out of control. Large MNCs like VW, Ford, GM (with Nikola) haven't even been able to get a proper footing in the EV space owing to costs among other things. Plus, the target market of chauffeur-driven elites (given that the chauffeurs are limited to carrying luggage and driving - it's burning me from inside TBH) is not a huge one either. And Tesla has announced their intentions to enter India soon. And the name for the ICE (ironically, it also stands for internal combustion engine) system is a polarizing one, JMO.

While I'm highly skeptical of their chances in the market, I do wish them all the best so that others can follow suit at least into the mass market.

[shrinandiyer]

This is a good step forward for the industry, definitely a welcome move.

Thoughts -

1. Fibreglass and/or composite parts - It will be interesting to see which areas of the structure use these materials. Reparability for the specific component is either '0' or nearly impossible.

But then again, current practice is very much the same.
(example - a rubber bush from intercooler assembly of my friend's i20 was broken and so the complete intercooler unit was changed. Dealership said intercooler assembly unit is the spare and not individual bushes)

This brings my thoughts to the "Repair vs Replace" ideology.
For a company targeting a different type of consumer, it is imperative for them to repair as much as possible and replace only when absolutely necessary - while taking safety into consideration for critical components like Battery packs.


2. I agree with GTO when he says the company has to be realistic. It makes sense for a company to take baby steps at this stage -
Jack of all vs Master of (n)one?
The company really seems ambitious to bring in levels of autonomy. I am really rooting for these systems. Environmental detection and Lane assist programs are going to have a tough time.

A cab driver once told me that "these white markings on road are very confusing saar".
I hope their system can take into account such driving habits of other road users.

3. Roof mounted Controls -
These folks are not afraid to experiment. But this steals attention from road. Wiper controls, Blower controls, Head lamp, Park lamps - the driver needs these while the attention is paid to the road AND hands are on the steering (Exception - The Autonomous system is THAT good)

What could be done - Give the "luxury" of control to rear passenger. Roof, Climate control, Polarized windows (Something straight out of airplanes), rear aircon etc.

Also noticed that the roof mounted section extends all the way to rear.

4. 'Electric car' - Kitna deti hai?
I think the company has chosen the target audience well here.

The best use scenario is 'Ferrying guests to and from airport' or 'Chauffeuring within city limits'
+The car cannot need not travel more than 500kms in a short time frame.
+The car is best suited for b-to-b traffic where IC engines lose mileage.

First brush with EV was probably Reva but it was a different time. Hopefully they took notes to make sure this doesnt get sidelined.

5. Despite all preventive measures, an EV has the risk of fire. While being charged, when idle, when running etc. (Not that oil-guzzlers are impervious)

The company is making waves and getting good attention - seeing that they are open to experimenting, the title of 'segment first safety feature' awaits them.
Something to the like of Volvo and seatbelts. When you say seatbelt, Volvo is name that pops in our heads.

This Diwali is going to be interesting!

[digitalnirvana]

Thanks for the thread Chirag.

Were you given a test ride on any of the cars? Or shown a test drive? After the Nikola fiasco I'm sceptical of "pushers". Bottom line - do they run on their own power? There's a pic of the speedo so possibly they do, yes?

Sorry if I am being harsh and/or ignorant but all I see are prototypes of questionable finish and a company that has cast its net of aspirations too wide. I will stop short of calling them vaporware but not too far off.

I'll be happy to eat my hat in a few years time but I don't see these products or the business model working anytime soon, especially in India.

[Turbo yoda]

Call me a sceptic but it looks like it's gonna be all smoke and mirrors. I've seen a lot of startups make outrageous claims just for that sweet investor money.

[Lobogris]

The idea and the concept are great. However the products look really crude and shabby. There are electrical wires taped together visible next to the charging port of the car!! Speaks volumes about craftsmanship, safety and attention to detail, even in a prototype. The interiors are unbelievably crude like something a roadside mechanic would create in a village. The screens are incredibly basic as as are the buttons for selecting the direction of movement (gears). Yes, I know it is a prototype but the quality or lack thereof is evident. Even the garage area has debris lying around. I don't see any boutique hotel using these to ferry guests around in place of a BMW or Mercedes. If they want to sell a bare basic cheap contraption to poor villagers upgrading from a used bike then they might have a chance.

[WhiteSierra]

The car is still in its raw form, there should be still lot of changes and improvements to design, materials used, fit and finish to make it a market ready product.

Couple of things I like about Pravaig extinction model:

1. Higher range compared to current offerings like Kona EV, MG ZS EV, Nexon EV
2. Greater figures and claims of Top speed, Power and Torque.
3. Ability to provide level 1 and level 2 autonomous driving for Indian roads is impressive
4. Front end design and rear taillight design looks impressive
5. An Indian start up coming with a car competing with market leaders (Hyundai, Tata, MG) and offering better specs is impressive.


things I did not like:

1. The rear end and rear quarter panel ends abruptly. As they said, there will be a rear sliding door, waiting for it to be on a prototype to see how exactly it looks
2. Fit and finish of the car is still in question. Eg: look at the frunk (front trunk), the quality of plastic and finish is pathetic.
3. Interiors are least impressive, everything from basic seats to airplane like controls on the top, it would be very difficult for users to reach them while driving (eg: Wiper controls mounted on top). I really hope they change all of these in their next prototype before showing it to public, always remember, 1st impression is always the best impression. Showing a prototype to public means you are keeping all your hardwork for research development of this product in a public domain. May be the concept car will be very different compared to this 6th prototype.

Wising all the best to Pravaig dynamics from Team-BHP, I hope they live up to the expectations and make India proud! Pravaig to India should be what Tesla is to the U.S.