[DieselFan]

Google maps are definetely a better replacement to MMI maps. I have been using google maps in bangalore for last 2 weeks and you do not need Data connection at all if you have maps already downloaded on to your smartphone. As someone else said the whole download of Bangalore districts doesn't cross more than 50 MB. I am sure i can download entire country in 1 GB of space (Most of us have either 16 GB, 32GB or 64 GB space in our smartphones. So I do not find this as an issue.

Once you download the map into your phone GPS works great and as I have seen I have got good directions well ahead of time as well as re-routing is done very fast.

Hence it is RIP for all the dedicated GPS navigation systems.

Originally Posted by T1000

Cons
1. Its not entirely free, you pay high data charge on use, very high if you are on a 3G network.
2. Not so convinent to use, if you are in the middle of traffic and get a phone call the application stops working till you answer the call , chances are you will have to pamper the application to get it working again by refreshing or restarting..etc.. you may loose track of a junction and take a wrong turn
3. Doesnt work everywhere, there are pockets when data network is not available. Not advisable for highway use.
4. If you use your phone as a music player. then you have to choose between navigation and entertainment.
5. Practical issues like battery time prevents continous usage. Ex, a phone using internet, display light and GPS drains the battery quickly. you need to always carry a battery charger.
Cheers
T1000

My replies
1. Google maps are entirely free if you have unlimited braodband at home and can be downloaded at home using wifi connection.
2. Not true. the application is running in the background and you can receive the call without any issues. Most smartphones are multi-tasking now-a-days.
3.Not true. it works everywhere. GPS is available in all places. Not sure why you need data network when you download the map on to your phone
4.Not true as mentioned earlier most smartphones can multitask now.
5.Not true. I can charge my smartphone in the car using car adapter. It is better to keep phone battery charger/adapter in the car itself then carry a dedicated GPS navigation system isn't it

[C4CAR]

From past 1.5 years i am using Google Maps, Mostly in South Indian places and i have never faced any problems.

The recent Navigation feature is just awesome, No need to worry about netwoks, Maximum for about 20-30 kms you may be in No Network zone ( I use Airtel) , But you can always load your maps for next 300 Kms. Downside is its a big battery sucker.

When you miss a turn , It automatically re routes. I have never used MMI so cant comment on that.

Last but not the least, If i find any place/hotel/Gas station not marked in Map, I always make it a point to add those places in Google Map Maker , Have made almost 60 edits till date.

Have a safe Trip

JC

[binand]

Originally Posted by mayankjha1806

At many places the phone (even if you have 3G) switches to GPRS and this is where the problem is. You can get the map but the speed at which it updates your current location and statistics about your destination is very slow and very quickly gets out of sync, and in my experience Out of Sync map is useless, especially in areas you do not know the direction.

This is from personal experience - no "evidence" to back this claim. What I have noticed is that Nokia phones come with supl.nokia.com as the default SUPL server (a key component in A-GPS), which doesn't really work well. In my Nokia phones (an E71 and the later an N900) I changed that to supl.google.com and this simple change did wonders to the GPS function of the phone.

All Android phones come with Google's server pre-configured, though.

[drmohitg]

I use google maps extensively and it has worked like a gem throughout Gujarat, Rajasthan and MP. are there still areas where cell phone connectivity is not there? And how frequently does one venture into such an area? That answer should probably make your decision to choose between google and other maps.

Till now the only place where google maps didnt work was while climbing a hill station. And that too only on the twisty last 20 kms. Once at the top connectivity was back.

[T1000]

Hi DieselFan,

Originally Posted by DieselFan

My replies
1. Google maps are entirely free if you have unlimited braodband at home and can be downloaded at home using wifi connection.

I agree with usage on broadband at home. Im referring to usage of google maps on the phone while travelling. Though the service is free from google, One has to pay data charges for using any internet based service on the phone. the cost is around rs800 for couple of gbs(depends on the plan)
You even have unlimited plans on mobile.
The point i was making is, If i use google maps for 30 hrs in a month, one indirectly pays for data usage.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

2. Not true. the application is running in the background and you can receive the call without any issues. Most smartphones are multi-tasking now-a-days.

Well, there are two ways to look at it.
a. Lets say you get a call from your boss or you have to attend an important call, lets say the call lasts for 15 mins. One is directionless in those 15 mins. it becomes a problem if you are driving in a city, where you may have to take many turns within those 15 mins.
b. Yes. Smart phones run applications in the background. But when a voice call is established, the data network goes in dormancy mode or the data network is disconnected.(the way it is handled depends on the operator).
c. Once the data network goes off, getting the network connection back purely depends on the application and the smartphone. Normally the application automatically tries to establish connection for 'n' times, (say 5-6 times) and gives up. in that case the user has to refresh or sometimes relaunch the application. The phones never retry infinitely because they are optimised to use less battery.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

3.Not true. it works everywhere. GPS is available in all places. Not sure why you need data network when you download the map on to your phone

True, my view is yours, GPS is not depended on telecom network
There are two ways you can download a map to a phone.
a. You "buy" a country's map it costs Rs 2500 to Rs 3000 then download it your phone. Then the usage is independant of telecom network.
b. Google map allows you to cache a portion of the map...lets say im going to place A , i search areas around place A. Those searched areas by me at that time is cached. Google map doesnt cache the entire information about that place....so if you are going to a place where there is no network, you cannot further search for a place which is not in the cache.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

4.Not true as mentioned earlier most smartphones can multitask now.

Pls see response for Point 2. The point is about how operators handle their network and its not depended on smartphones.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

5.Not true. I can charge my smartphone in the car using car adapter. It is better to keep phone battery charger/adapter in the car itself then carry a dedicated GPS navigation system isn't it

Very true, The point is about user behaviour, A GPS system is fixed to a car along with the car charger and it is "always available". i dont have to remember to carry a charger.
Where as a how many of us keep the charger always in the car?
Sometimes some borrows it, we forget to get it back, sometimes we change cars, forget to take the charger back.

Thanks Dieselfan for your comments :-)

[abhijitvp]

Yes. Only reason I did not buy dedicated GPS navigation device is Google map availability on android phones. I have used it extensively even without data connection.

I generally don’t use navigation feature. GPS location with map is enough for me. The best thing I like about Google map is, you can work on the routes, mark the interesting places on your PC (bigger screen) and those are directly available on your phone. So before I start, I mark all the places I am planning to visit, all the turn-offs, make them favourite and cache those parts in my phone using Wi-Fi at home.

Now Google allows more area to be cached and if you have active data connection then life becomes easier. Now navigation is also available along with traffic condition. I also use Navfree World (free on android) to get POIs and navigation. On long drives (1000km+) I have used this. You always need to carry a charger. My wife also has android phone so that serves as a back-up. I don’t think I will ever buy dedicated unit unless there are no free maps available on android.

[T1000]

Well, If google is getting into devices market. They would do it in style and it will be the end for the rest of them.

Well, I would expect google to launch a device which will have the benefits of both GPS devices and the online google maps.

What to expect ?
1. A google GPS device.
2. With a subsidised device cost
3. With a subsidised operator data plan
4. Totally free for the user except for the hardware cost
5. Service driven with advertisements.

Overall, it will benefit the users


Why would google do it?
1. Google will know who you are. (Operator KYC form reveals who you are)
2. Google will know where you go ( Do you go to south mumbai or dharavi or you travel long distance)
3. Google will know your spending power.( do you visit a premium club regularly or do you visit juhu beach)
4. Google will know what you do. ( do you go a IT park or you goto a shopping mall)

With this information they will charge more for their advertisements!!

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by T1000

Well, I would expect google to launch a device which will have the benefits of both GPS devices and the online google maps.

They have Google Glass project, which goes beyond finding a route. Anyway, going after offline map companies is too a minuscule amount to interest Google.

[ottocycle]

One day, Google map will be the only app someone would need for navigation. At present, we do need more than one application for cross verifying the mapping data. Many a times, I have found that remote places are better covered in MMI. The very reason I bought sygic (with life time update of India maps) was that I didn't want to get in a situation where there is not network coverage and I am stuck.

If you like google map and if you want to make is the ideal navigation, please contribute via mapmaker.

Here are my mapmaker stats:
1573 days , 393 total edits, 360 approved, 40 reviews

[binand]

Originally Posted by T1000

Well, there are two ways to look at it.
a. Lets say you get a call from your boss or you have to attend an important call, lets say the call lasts for 15 mins. One is directionless in those 15 mins. it becomes a problem if you are driving in a city, where you may have to take many turns within those 15 mins.
b. Yes. Smart phones run applications in the background. But when a voice call is established, the data network goes in dormancy mode or the data network is disconnected.(the way it is handled depends on the operator).
c. Once the data network goes off, getting the network connection back purely depends on the application and the smartphone. Normally the application automatically tries to establish connection for 'n' times, (say 5-6 times) and gives up. in that case the user has to refresh or sometimes relaunch the application. The phones never retry infinitely because they are optimised to use less battery.

I have two points to make here.

1. If you get a call while you are driving, you have to stop the car and take the call. Driving and calling simultaneously is a recipe for disaster. You should not be "taking many turns" while "attending an important call or a call from your boss".

If you are using a car kit or hands-free, then the phone display is still available to you, btw.

2. In 2G, it is true that voice and data connections cannot be established simultaneously. This is not the case with 3G. This is not dependent on the operator.

Originally Posted by T1000

True, my view is yours, GPS is not depended on telecom network
There are two ways you can download a map to a phone.
a. You "buy" a country's map it costs Rs 2500 to Rs 3000 then download it your phone. Then the usage is independant of telecom network.
b. Google map allows you to cache a portion of the map...lets say im going to place A , i search areas around place A. Those searched areas by me at that time is cached. Google map doesnt cache the entire information about that place....so if you are going to a place where there is no network, you cannot further search for a place which is not in the cache.

On the other hand, Google Maps is continuously updated - and all such updates are available to users immediately. How many times a year does MMI release an update? And are those updates free? I had checked about Garmin a while back, some units come with lifetime free map updates but not all.

The best thing about Google Maps in Bangalore is the real-time traffic updates. You automatically know when a traffic jam is building up in the road ahead of you and can re-route yourself to avoid it (this feature has saved me many hours of frustration on the ORR). Elsewhere, the amount of detail in the product I think is unparalleled - and the crowdsourcing that Google does means that every single PoI will eventually get there.

[Recompose]

Anyway I can save Google maps cache/data for offline use on the iPad, down to last tile (max zoom)? BTW, I'm running iOS 5.

[T1000]

Originally Posted by binand

I have two points to make here.

1. If you get a call while you are driving, you have to stop the car and take the call. Driving and calling simultaneously is a recipe for disaster. You should not be "taking many turns" while "attending an important call or a call from your boss".

If you are using a car kit or hands-free, then the phone display is still available to you, btw.

Hey i was referring to use of hands-free..One should never use the phone while driving.One should even avoid use of handsfree while driving. stopping the car is the best option.
yes, the display is available when you use handsfree, but the map may not get updates!

If you have the interest, time and energy you can try this experiment.
1. Use maps while travelling and answer a voice call(using handsfree) and keep the connection on and continue driving.
2. Your position in google maps will still be updated as long as the information can be retrevied from the cache.
3. After that map updates will stop working as there is no data connection to get map data.

Originally Posted by binand

2. In 2G, it is true that voice and data connections cannot be established simultaneously. This is not the case with 3G. This is not dependent on the operator.

Well, Voice and data are simultaneously supported only on few handset models.

Example HTC EVO LTE, Motorola photon 4G , IPhone 5

are few models where data and voice can work simultaneously. These are basically 4G handsets. These are hardly few in numbers, you can actually count them.

Originally Posted by binand

The best thing about Google Maps in Bangalore is the real-time traffic updates. You automatically know when a traffic jam is building up in the road ahead of you and can re-route yourself to avoid it (this feature has saved me many hours of frustration on the ORR). Elsewhere, the amount of detail in the product I think is unparalleled - and the crowdsourcing that Google does means that every single PoI will eventually get there.

On a ligther note, realtime traffic updates are here to demonstrate capability of technology. practically its of no use in a place like mumbai, because at peak hours every road is crowded, you see traffic jam everywhere, everyone gets frustrated.

[T1000]

Originally Posted by msdivy

They have Google Glass project, which goes beyond finding a route. Anyway, going after offline map companies is too a minuscule amount to interest Google.

Hi msdivy, Thanks for the info, i wasnt aware of the Glass project, its very interesting.
Vehicle entertainment/navigation systems and the glass project are going after two different markets.

In the overall scheme of things vehicle navigation is small but it is significant in terms of absolute numbers. New services and features are yet to be invented in this space.
the oppurtunity is huge

[invidious]

Google Navigation requires a data connection for real time routing. This means that if you are in an area with no mobile signal, Google Maps will still work because the map will be saved in your cache - but it will not be able to reroute you based on traffic data. On the other hand, if you use another phone - let's say a Nokia Lumia with Nokia Drive, the maps for India are stored on it - so you will be fine irrespective of whether you have a mobile connection or not. GPS receives data from GPS satellites, not from your mobile network towers. But your GPS device needs to connect to 3 satellites to determine your position - you will invariably lose the signal in tunnels or areas with thick tree or forest cover. Modern cell phones have the option of A-GPS - which is Assisted GPS which uses Mobile Towers which assist the GPS sats in determining your position. So you are better off with a 10,000 rupee Nokia Lumia than with a Map my India.


For the Android, I might be wrong - but in case you think Google Navigation might not cover you, you can get Mapquest which uses Navteq maps - it is free as well and it stores all the maps in your device.

[swami.n]

Originally Posted by T1000

Hey i was referring to use of hands-free..One should never use the phone while driving.One should even avoid use of handsfree while driving. stopping the car is the best option.
yes, the display is available when you use handsfree, but the map may not get updates!

If you have the interest, time and energy you can try this experiment.
1. Use maps while travelling and answer a voice call(using handsfree) and keep the connection on and continue driving.
2. Your position in google maps will still be updated as long as the information can be retrevied from the cache.
3. After that map updates will stop working as there is no data connection to get map data.


Well, Voice and data are simultaneously supported only on few handset models.

Example HTC EVO LTE, Motorola photon 4G , IPhone 5

are few models where data and voice can work simultaneously. These are basically 4G handsets. These are hardly few in numbers, you can actually count them.

Let me put my experience last month when we were to a lot of temples in and around Mayiladuthurai in TN.

I have the Note2 and a 3G connection with Airtel and a mere 300mb monthly data pack which already had 200+ mb used and the trip actually started on the last 4-5 days of my billing cycle. I did not download the maps into cache at my home and dint have the option to do it while on the travel as well.

So the odds are heavily stacked against me right? But that is where the reality differs.

We booked accommodation at a place called Vaitheeswarankoil and were visiting the various temples. I had only my mobile and no other devices.

We did close to 100-150kms(from & to the hotel) per day for 3 days and did not ask the route with any one on the road and just depended on Google maps alone as most of the temples we visited were identifiable in the map.

To everyone's surprise in our family we were actually able to do it successfully, and to my surprise the data had not crossed 270 mb when we completed the 3 days.

And to answer your experiment suggested, I had aux connected to my HU from the phone. Songs were playing from the phone as I wanted to hear the navigation commands on the speakers. Everytime there is a navigation command, the music is auto paused and resumes once the command is over.

Also attended couple of calls in the aux mode and the navigation did not hang during the call. I mean it kept updating with our movement.
Tried the same process with my wife's S2 last week and the result is the same.

So I can assure that not much of 3G data is consumed for this feature and once it configures the route, 1st time, it uses data only when there is a need for it to reroute.

The only drawback of the maps IMO is that, when we do out of state trips, the data may be charged in roaming which may be quite expensive