[Aroy]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

3. I'm assuming the Inverter based heating will be more cost efficient with lower electricity bills than the Oiled filled heater. ( need clarification )

On a cost of three 1.5 ACs with Inverter Cool + Heat this will be an added cost of around Rs 33000 over a three AC + Oiled filled Heater combination.

I'm a little hesitant to make a decision. But i have to make a decision for sure within the next 24 hrs as the heat is already unbearable.

Khoj, What do you suggest ?

Thanks

As far as I can make out from the literature, this option will consume less electricity on the whole. Couple that with space saved (in storing the heaters), you are better off with heat pump AC. Note that Cool only is normally different from Cool + Heat. The former is normal Inverter, while the latter is Heat Pump type which is inherently more efficient.

An interesting article Understanding heat pumps

[Thad E Ginathom]

The combined AC/heater will spread the warm air around the room, too, just as it would the cold. The electric heater will work largely convection... the heat should reach you eventually. I'm not saying they don't work, my mum had one in her UK house, they do heat a whole room, but one needs patience.




.

[khoj]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

khoj,

1. what about the water heaters ?

so are saying that the Usha lexus cannot perform at the same levels at as the Delonghi and wont be able to warm up a room comfortably.

3. I'm assuming the Inverter based heating will be more cost efficient with lower electricity bills than the Oiled filled heater. ( need clarification )

On a cost of three 1.5 ACs with Inverter Cool + Heat this will be an added cost of around Rs 33000 over a three AC + Oiled filled Heater combination.

I'm a little hesitant to make a decision. But i have to make a decision for sure within the next 24 hrs as the heat is already unbearable.

Khoj, What do you suggest ?

Thanks

Let me answer your queries in the reverse order.

As for the option of heat pump vs oil radiators, I concur with what Aroy and TEG have posted. The heat pump unit is the way to go. The Daikin heat pump machines can work from -10 deg C to 18 deg C. As I recall, during last winters all of the oil radiators were struggling when the mercury dipped to single digits.

Coming to the query regarding performance of Lexus vs Delonghi (though this is now irrelevant), yes the Ds are far superior than the Ls. The 9 fin Ds were able to achieve and hold the desired heat levels in my bedroom far better than the 11 finned L (better thermister control). The L took longer to get there(this was a surprise) and once it did it kept on going and I had to get up time and again to adjust the temp control to either lower or raise the set levels. With the Ds once you set the knob (manual control only) one is comfortable the entire night.

The heat pump unit will certainly be able to give you much better control.

Coming to the water heaters, since you just moved to Dilli (assumption based on the statement in your avatar) and if you are yet to buy water heaters for the next winters then I have a recommendation. In case these have been bought or already exist then just ignore that statement.

I too did a little more research on the offerings from Daikin and per the literature on their web site I have observed that

The new models equipped with the R410 gas (such as FTXS50FVMA) have their compressors rated at 17000Btu/hr. You may want to consider the next higher model rated at 20000 Btu/hr (FTXS60FVM). This 17K and 20K Btu/hr business will be of consideration only during the period when the mercury in the afternoons goes to 44degC and beyond for sustained periods.

Currently only the 'G' series models equipped with the older R22 gas have compressors rated at 18000Btu. These older models however are neither available as inverters nor with heat pumps.

Do note the idea is not to create confusion but only to share this information, to help make a better informed decision.

[sgiitk]

@khoj: Most probably the 18000 (R22) and 17000 (R410) btu compressors are internally almost identical. They may only differ in the material (corrosion resistance) R410 obiously requires a larger pumped volume and/or a slightly higher working pressure hence the reduced rating.

[khoj]

@sgiitk,
Yes Sir, you are correct. The R410 filled systems do have a higher operating pressure and piping/tubing and the capillaries etc are of a better gauge than those for the R22 systems. I happened to speak with a Hitachi company technician and per him on the compressors too walls are thicker for the new gas.

Interestingly per him the R410 charged 17000 Btu rated units are as efficient as the 18000 Btu rated ones with the old R22 gas!! Though he did not have an explanation for the same, he was insistant that the new machines are achieving desired grill temperatures in as much time as the old ones !! Is this possible?

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by khoj

@sgiitk,
Interestingly per him the R410 charged 17000 Btu rated units are as efficient as the 18000 Btu rated ones with the old R22 gas!! Though he did not have an explanation for the same, he was insistant that the new machines are achieving desired grill temperatures in as much time as the old ones !! Is this possible?

I have checked the grill temparature a number of times. It is more or less constant for a given air flow. The temparature has little bearing on the capacity, because the temparature is same whether on a one ton or a three ton unit. What matters is how much air it can cool, and that depends mostly on the quantum of the air cooled in the system. You will notice that if you reduce the air flow the temparature drops, but the room takes longer to cool.

A word of caution. As newer gasses require higher pressure, it is better to use only reputed installers, who will use thicker gauge tubes and higher pressure connectors, with teflon tape at every joint. The run of the mill technicians will use older thinner gauge tubes and inferior jointing to reduce costs, but leave you with a potential leak prone installation. That may be one of the reasons why Daikin at times refuses to honour warranty claims if not installed by their authorised technicians.

[Gill]

Suggest an AC preferably 1.5 ton. Has to a window installation.I need to buy two unit, one of the room is directly exposed to sun for a greater part of the day, other room sees the shades for most of the day.

[rana_kirti]

Originally Posted by khoj

Let me answer your queries in the reverse order.

As for the option of heat pump vs oil radiators, I concur with what Aroy and TEG have posted. The heat pump unit is the way to go. The Daikin heat pump machines can work from -10 deg C to 18 deg C. As I recall, during last winters all of the oil radiators were struggling when the mercury dipped to single digits.

Coming to the query regarding performance of Lexus vs Delonghi (though this is now irrelevant), yes the Ds are far superior than the Ls. The 9 fin Ds were able to achieve and hold the desired heat levels in my bedroom far better than the 11 finned L (better thermister control). The L took longer to get there(this was a surprise) and once it did it kept on going and I had to get up time and again to adjust the temp control to either lower or raise the set levels. With the Ds once you set the knob (manual control only) one is comfortable the entire night.

The heat pump unit will certainly be able to give you much better control.

Coming to the water heaters, since you just moved to Dilli (assumption based on the statement in your avatar) and if you are yet to buy water heaters for the next winters then I have a recommendation. In case these have been bought or already exist then just ignore that statement.

I too did a little more research on the offerings from Daikin and per the literature on their web site I have observed that

The new models equipped with the R410 gas (such as FTXS50FVMA) have their compressors rated at 17000Btu/hr. You may want to consider the next higher model rated at 20000 Btu/hr (FTXS60FVM). This 17K and 20K Btu/hr business will be of consideration only during the period when the mercury in the afternoons goes to 44degC and beyond for sustained periods.

Currently only the 'G' series models equipped with the older R22 gas have compressors rated at 18000Btu. These older models however are neither available as inverters nor with heat pumps.

Do note the idea is not to create confusion but only to share this information, to help make a better informed decision.

i'm yet to get the heaters.. so do go ahead and give me your suggestion... maybe here or else in a pm or a water heater thread if there is one.

thanks

Originally Posted by Aroy

I have checked the grill temparature a number of times. It is more or less constant for a given air flow. The temparature has little bearing on the capacity, because the temparature is same whether on a one ton or a three ton unit. What matters is how much air it can cool, and that depends mostly on the quantum of the air cooled in the system. You will notice that if you reduce the air flow the temparature drops, but the room takes longer to cool.

A word of caution. As newer gasses require higher pressure, it is better to use only reputed installers, who will use thicker gauge tubes and higher pressure connectors, with teflon tape at every joint. The run of the mill technicians will use older thinner gauge tubes and inferior jointing to reduce costs, but leave you with a potential leak prone installation. That may be one of the reasons why Daikin at times refuses to honour warranty claims if not installed by their authorised technicians.

can i assume that all the dealers listed on the daikinindia website are authorized technicians and daikin will honour warrant if i bought from one of these dealers.... ?

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by Gill

Suggest an AC preferably 1.5 ton. Has to a window installation.I need to buy two unit, one of the room is directly exposed to sun for a greater part of the day, other room sees the shades for most of the day.

Hitachi 5-star units if Budget permits. Otherwise Lg has a good range too.

[sgiitk]

@ARoy; @Khoj; I think the moral of the whole thing is that we should ignore less that 10% variations in the ratings. I will say even more so, since the exact installation and charging can easily cause this sort of variation.

[schitre05]

Mumbai folks please let me know, if it is OK to buy the ac's from ALFA, Andheri. they have considerable price difference on O generals and Hitachi, only that there is no bill and warranty from the seller or the company as all are imported.

I am looking to buy 3, (two 1 ton and one 1.5 ton all split)
cheers!!

[pankaj_sachdeva]

Originally Posted by Gill

Suggest an AC preferably 1.5 ton. Has to a window installation.I need to buy two unit, one of the room is directly exposed to sun for a greater part of the day, other room sees the shades for most of the day.

You can look at the Whirlpool range. Got a 3 star Whirlpool last year and it is installed in room directly exposed to sun. The AC is doing it's job brilliantly and and it is less noisy than my 2 yr old samsung window unit.

[driving_smartly]

Originally Posted by schitre05

Mumbai folks please let me know, if it is OK to buy the ac's from ALFA, Andheri. they have considerable price difference on O generals and Hitachi, only that there is no bill and warranty from the seller or the company as all are imported.

I am looking to buy 3, (two 1 ton and one 1.5 ton all split)
cheers!!

Buying Ac's ALFA is not wrong but buying them without bill and warranty is not worth if your buying three Ac's that means you gonna invest a good sum of money. I will say better stick the one's with bill and warranty as you get 1 year warranty on unit and 5 years warranty on compressor. Why regret later if something goes kaput and nothing is covered in warranty.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by schitre05

Mumbai folks please let me know, if it is OK to buy the ac's from ALFA, Andheri. they have considerable price difference on O generals and Hitachi, only that there is no bill and warranty from the seller or the company as all are imported.

I am looking to buy 3, (two 1 ton and one 1.5 ton all split)
cheers!!

If the imports are legal (and not smuggled) then they should give a bill. If neither bill nor warranty is forthcoming, stay away, as this is a as-is-where-is transaction with no liability on the seller's side. In case you are getting three AC at half the price, then you can think of it (that too after getting them tested/inspected by a known technician), else stay away and get ones with bill and warranty.

EDIT : I would have gone ahead if the AC were Window types and price attractive, but as testing Splits without installation is not possible for a layman, it is better to avoid the deal.

[Gill]

I have kept aside 22k for the AC purchase.I fail to understand the price variations and star ratings.