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Old 28th June 2023, 09:56   #7426
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

Its a common feature at least in my Sharp and Voltas inverter ACs, both with turbo modes which I rarely use. No lights but I can feel the compressor switching on in a minute after starting.
Realistically I see it useful in my case when we erratic supply typically when there is maintenance going on etc. Here the power comes on and off within a minute, happens for some time. The compressor doesn't get switched on during that phase and I assume extends its life.
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Old 28th June 2023, 13:18   #7427
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

If there is a separate stabiliser, that too may have a three-minute delay built in. In this case, though, the AC won't turn on at all... of course.
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Old 29th June 2023, 13:53   #7428
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
They seem to have what I think is a unique feature - when you turn on the AC, the compressor doesn't start for the first 3 minutes, the compressor only starts after 3 minutes elapse. Apparently, this is to save the compressor from damage. You can bypass this by pressing a Turbo button.
It is common with all ACs (inverter or fixed speed) with electronics control panel. If there was a momentary power interruption , the control unit will wait for about 3 minutes before turning on the compressor. The same way most stabilizers designed for ACs have this 3 minute delay function. When the compressor's supply is interrupted, the pressure in the line will be high and as a result, the compressor will start with a heavy overload - not very healthy for the motor, its supply electronics and the power line.

Earlier days, the onus of protecting the compressor fell on OLP (over load protector) for machines without electronics.

Most of the time the power electronics (PCB) fails during such momentary interruption.

In Team-BHP parlance, it is like starting your fully over loaded car in a steep gradient.
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Old 29th June 2023, 17:09   #7429
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
If there was a momentary power interruption , the control unit will wait for about 3 minutes before turning on the compressor.
I haven't yet checked if it happens only for a momentary power interruption but how would the unit know if the power interruption was momentary or not? For that, there has to be some kind permanent memory where it would note down the time at which it got switched off & then again read this when it gets switched on & compare the two.
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Old 29th June 2023, 17:39   #7430
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I haven't yet checked if it happens only for a momentary power interruption but how would the unit know if the power interruption was momentary or not? For that, there has to be some kind permanent memory where it would note down the time at which it got switched off & then again read this when it gets switched on & compare the two.
It is simple. Every time the AC is switched on, it simply waits for the set duration before it starts the compressor. You will notice the indoor unit's fan will run and the slit motor will run to open the vent. Only the compressor needs the waiting period.
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Old 30th June 2023, 20:44   #7431
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I haven't seen this before in any AC - is this common? Is it really required or can I press the Turbo button each & every time?
If the AC doesn't work this way, then there's an issue

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Aargee...Buy a new AC, forget all that has happened and literally chill out
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Originally Posted by huntrz View Post
Well I am no expert...Any product of theirs' provide an amazing peace of mind.
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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
In general a 15 year old AC is at the end of its life...their life is over 20 years.
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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
If you purchase online..it's pretty evident in the power consumption bill
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
It is never a good idea to call...during Christmas/new year sale.
Hello All
Some more updates...quite interesting as well, I'm sure some of you might even love it

Mon 19-Jun: Called Onida & told them I'm yet to hear from anyone on call CH15XX90921, they said they'll escalate
Wed 21-Jun: Called Onida & told them I'm yet to hear from anyone on call CH15XX90921, they said they'll escalate
Fri 23-Jun: Called Onida & told them I'm yet to hear from anyone on call CH15XX90921, they said they'll escalate
Wed 28-Jun: Called Onida & told them I'm yet to hear from anyone on call CH15XX90921, they said they'll escalate

Thus on 28-Jun the folks from YY Enterprises show up {new set of people} & get into work; they almost break the swing blades, thankfully it held up; they spliced the original wiring end that's covered with copper metal at the AC wires into stabilizer & insert direct wire; then splice up the OE wire at outdoor unit connecting to the contactor & give new connection & guess what VOILA!! it worked!! The AC actually works as it should
1. When turned ON the fan works for 2-3 minutes
2. Then the compressor takes the load & then starts working

Now come to the next part, the AC has to cut off when the room temperature reaches 30 & it doesn't happen.

The Insensible Sensor
Again troubleshooting; they remove the OE insulation of DHT sensor, then they rip open the sensor wire from PCB & then struggle to put it back. Then he casually tells me the problem is with sensor & needs replacement.

Sensor Testing
I request {as these guys were distressed & in the verge of bursting at us, I had to use my words carefully as well} them to test the sensor by placing it below the blower & asked to test. They were little hesitant, but then they did what I asked. They also kept rubbing the end of sensor & after few minutes they said the sensor is at fault because the AC isn't cutting off when the temperature is raising over 30 Although I wanted to blast them for talking such nonsense, I didn't open my mouth. Then my Son intervened & had to tell them the AC cuts off when the temperature reaches or falls below 30 for which they had to agree but immediately switched track & said the sensor is at fault as whatever my Son said is not happening. Now again I had to tell them if they rubbed the temperature at DHT sensor would raise due to heat & the AC wouldn't cut off & asked them to leave the sensor alone under the blower.

Works...But?
Guess what? After lowering the temperature setting to 18, the AC cuts off finally & after few minutes it takes the load of cooling. Thus the problem of cut off is resolved. They asked me to confirm if the problem is resolved for which I told them I'll confirm by Friday & asked to keep the ticket open which they hastily agreed.

The Hush-hush Bill
Now they gift me with a bill of Rs 5550 for replacing the PCB {remember I had paid an advance of Rs 2500} so I'm bound to pay Rs 3050 more. I ask him to give an itemized bill asking the price of PCB for which he wrote the cost of PCB is Rs 4800 & service charge is Rs 750. Since I know the price of any new inverter model PCB is around 5K the old one shouldn't cost so much, hence I asked him why the PCB cost so much. He tried a shrewd way by calling his office, putting his phone on speaker, talking to the receptionist who told him that I had told them not to mind the cost but to fix the problem. I told I will pay what he's asking, but then I'll deal the overcharging in another way & showed him the package that carried the MRP of Rs 1859. I gave him a second chance to double check if he wants for one last time. He agreed to confirm it later after reaching office & sends me a message via WhatsApp of the screenshot from the system that says the customer price of PCB is Rs 2230 & service charge of Rs 750 totaling to Rs 2980.

No answers
I asked him:
1. To confirm if the AC problem was resolved by replacing PCB or not for which he hasn't answered
2. Why they originally raised the bill for Rs 5550 instead of Rs 2930, again no answer

Birth of new problem
Meanwhile we observed that, the AC temperature set at 18 cools the room to 26 & then cuts off. Means, everything works as it should just that the temperature has to be set at 18. Not sure if 16 will behave like room temperature of 24, need to check.

Thu 29-Jun: Despite asking them to keep the incident open, they had closed it by evening
Fri 30-Jun: Today morning I updated them on the birth of new issue & once again asked them to confirm if replacing the PCB fixed the issue & they haven't responded yet. Thus, I was forced to open another call CH30XX07389

Reflecting upon the issue
1. It was just the fan misconnection to the contactor at the outdoor unit which made the AC to keep working forever
2. To cover up {or perhaps intentionally}, they misdiagnosed {or mislead} the issue as PCB; I had even told them to check the PCB using multimeter in first place for which they agreed, but didn't get it done
3. Then they did a malpractice overcharging Rs 5550 instead of Rs 2980
4. Never attended calls on time, delaying the whole time providing unacceptable service
5. And finally when trying to fix the wires at contactor, they damaged the OE wires by splicing & damaging the sensor seating in the PCB

Now again I'm in fix
1. Should I pay the remaining Rs 480 & keep moving to buy another AC?
2. Should I send a legal notice to Mirc electronics for all the malpractices & damages asking to restore the AC to former glory?
3. Or should I leave things as such forgoing Rs 2500 & not paying Rs 480?
4. Shoot another email to Mr. Mirchandani as one final opportunity to fix the issues?

I agree 100% with all of you: it's an old AC consuming too much power & the room really requires only 1 ton not 1.5, and modern day AC's don't consume so much power & its more worthy to replace than retain the power hungry 1.5 ton machine {BTW, we're loving our 0.8 ton Bluestar invertor than the tiktok cut off traditional AC}, I'm really in a fix whether to let go or give back on this incident. Besides a new AC costs nothing less than 30K with exchange price, but if I fix this AC its not going to cost even half of half of half of half of this price isn't it?

Kindly let me know your thoughts as how differently you would approach the situation please? Thank you

Last edited by aargee : 30th June 2023 at 21:00.
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Old 30th June 2023, 22:29   #7432
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Kindly let me know your thoughts as how differently you would approach the situation please? Thank you
Aargee, hats off to you to have the patience in dealing with the service provider, technicians and AC. Insane amount of follow up

I would throw the AC and technicians out of the window. Buy a new one, put it on 18 degrees and chill out .

Cheers

Last edited by Sheel : 30th June 2023 at 23:00. Reason: Rule #11. Please revisit Forum rules. Thanks.
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Old 14th September 2023, 21:09   #7433
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

Dear Members,

The outdoor PCB of our AC in the master bedroom has gone bad again. The AC in question is a daikin inverter and was purchased in 2015. This is the third time the PCB has gone kaput. I have decided not to spend good money on bad product and to buy a new one. If the members could kindly give their comments on the following queries, it would help me decide what to buy or rather what not to buy:

1. Whether such frequent problems with PCB are the usual norm or my case is an aberration? I did not have a stabiliser connected. Can it be a cause?

2. One of my friend suggested to get the earthing checked. As per his experience faulty/ no earthing can be a cause. Does he have a point? In any case checking the same make sense.Kindly opine.

3. Voltage fluctuations are said to be disastrous for inverter pcbs. I stay in Kolkata and our power supply of CESC is very stable. Do members suggest to use stabilisers regardless of this fact.?

4. Any other suggestions to avoid such frequent problems wrt electrical and electronic appliances/white goods.

Warm regards
Manish
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Old 23rd September 2023, 09:27   #7434
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

My opinion:
Fact of the matter is that modern PCBs and their components are getting minitiuarized
by the day with the result that failure chances have increased.
It is for the manufacturers to find a solution to this problem and not consumers like you and me to ponder whether we need voltage stabilizers or to do something else.

Youtubers and forum discussion from abroad especially US have discussed this aspect of AC having variable speed compressors and most agree that you can not expect long and trouble free service from these ACs.
So basically its a trade off. What I know from my personal experience is that service of an inverter ac is not simple and cheap and it causes heartburn. You have to wait for either getting PCB repaired or changed and so live without ac when you need it the most.
It is not worth it.
Many people will advocate for inverter ac saying that you will save this much amount in 5 years or 6 years and so on and it will pay back itself. These people have conditioned themselves to accept the lifespan of an ac to 5-6 years and consider it a bonanza if an ac works over and above it.
But I am not ready to face the hassle of getting an appliance repaired or even replacing it after only 5 years.
I expect an appliance to work for 10 to 15 years.
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Old 23rd September 2023, 10:08   #7435
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtripathi13 View Post
3. Voltage fluctuations are said to be disastrous for inverter pcbs. I stay in Kolkata and our power supply of CESC is very stable. Do members suggest to use stabilisers regardless of this fact.?
Regardless of the voltage stability, always install a stabilizer for an AC. I am quite surprised that we run ACs without one.

A few tips that I have learnt over the years:
- Always switch off the AC from the mains when not in use. I used to turn off the AC but never switched off the mains/ socket. The PCB of this AC fried and had to be repaired.
- Never run AC without a good stabilizer.
- If possible, buy non inverter ACs only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neeraj0272 View Post
But I am not ready to face the hassle of getting an appliance repaired or even replacing it after only 5 years.
I expect an appliance to work for 10 to 15 years.
I have been buying non inverter ACs with lower star rating (3 star) compared to inverter ACs that get around 5 star ratings.
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Old 23rd September 2023, 10:31   #7436
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

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Originally Posted by mtripathi13 View Post
Dear Members,

The outdoor PCB of our AC in the master bedroom has gone bad again. The AC in question is a daikin inverter and was purchased in 2015. This is the third time the PCB has gone kaput. I have decided not to spend good money on bad product and to buy a new one. If the members could kindly give their comments on the following queries, it would help me decide what to buy or rather what not to buy:

1. Whether such frequent problems with PCB are the usual norm or my case is an aberration? I did not have a stabiliser connected. Can it be a cause?
The stabilizers are a must, but the brands confuse the user with a different narrative across the spectrum. On the retail end at the stores when selling these inverter AC's, they'd say you don't need one. But when it packs up and the technicians come to take a look, they invariably blame the power. The Electricity supply ain't the greatest for sure & so better to just factor in a stabilizer when buying an AC.

More importantly, i think the manufacturers aren't building them to last for 15 - 20 years like the good old days & more for a 5-7 year period at the most. It's business and they want us to fork out the cash every 5 years & not every 15 years.

As far as the power saving goes, to me it seems like a great marketing gimmick. As discussed here already, all savings are wiped out when the PCB needs changing. There are bound to be exceptions with folks have had a trouble free run and possibly have saved on their bills with these inverter AC's. But i think they'd be a minority.

The market has shifted to these inverter AC's and so consumers are forced to adopt it. it's not as if, due to the success of these inverter units, that everyone are shifting to this, but more a case of them being forced to buy only these.

Just my 2 cents on the topic
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Old 23rd September 2023, 10:44   #7437
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

The ACs have an inbuilt stabilizer. Their voltage range is specified as 150-300 volts. Then where is the need for a separate stabilizer? We are using a stabilizer out of habit, and it too has a similar operating range. At least earlier we justified a stabilizer by saying they have a delayed start mechanism (in case power goes off and returns immediately) to protect the compressor. Now that feature also is inbuilt in the ACs.

I am ruing the day I replaced my old Samsung window Ac with a Whirlpool three star inverter split Ac during Jan 2020. It was trouble free only for the first year. I have a stabilizer for it. After the first year every year the gas had to be refilled. This year it was refilled twice. It is a 1.5 ton unit fitted for a room where a 1 ton will suffice, so the chill effect can be felt very quickly. But it happens for only a few weeks after the gas fill, after that it tapers off. They say there is no problem with the condensor coils. Internal pcb and led display were replaced once.

At least everything was done under AMC till now with no expense to me, but it will expire next Jan. I am doubtful if they will renew it. I am thinking of scrapping it once something conks out, and replace it with a non inverter 3 star window unit. If I could get a good second hand one with R22 gas, it will be even better!
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Old 24th September 2023, 11:58   #7438
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtripathi13 View Post
Dear Members,

The outdoor PCB of our AC in the master bedroom has gone bad again. The AC in question is a daikin inverter and was purchased in 2015. This is the third time the PCB has gone kaput. I have decided not to spend good money on bad product and to buy a new one. If the members could kindly give their comments on the following queries, it would help me decide what to buy or rather what not to buy:

1. Whether such frequent problems with PCB are the usual norm or my case is an aberration? I did not have a stabiliser connected. Can it be a cause?

2. One of my friend suggested to get the earthing checked. As per his experience faulty/ no earthing can be a cause. Does he have a point? In any case checking the same make sense.Kindly opine.

3. Voltage fluctuations are said to be disastrous for inverter pcbs. I stay in Kolkata and our power supply of CESC is very stable. Do members suggest to use stabilisers regardless of this fact.?

4. Any other suggestions to avoid such frequent problems wrt electrical and electronic appliances/white goods.

Warm regards
Manish
I have faced similar problems with the only Daikin I purchased. The PCB blew twice, first time after 4 years. This was replaced with a new one. Second time after one year. So I scrapped the AC (got 8K for AC plus pipes).

I have now got LG inverter AC's. They come with comprehensive extended warranty (around 10K). I have bought 5th Inverter (2T hot and cold) this winter.

So for 5 years you get
. Free cleaning twice a year
. Service for any complaint
. Free parts, gas etc

In fact for 5 years there are no expenses of ownership, exept the initial cost and extended warranty cost.
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Old 24th September 2023, 13:43   #7439
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

We have 3 inverter ACs at home - 2 Daikins and 1 Panasonic. Oldest 1T Daikin's PCB became faulty exactly after 5 years and 3 days
Replacement PCB was quoted to be Rs10500 + labour charges. I declined to get the replacement and got the PCB repaired from a 3rd party Electronic Service Technician. Removed the PCB myself and gave it to him. Got it fixed and myself got the AC running. This was in March 2023. Till date it works fine. Repair was not cheap, around Rs 2700. But since I removed and fixed the PCB (inside the compressor unit) myself, this was fine with me. Had an extensive talk with the technician. He says there are few Daikin PCBs that are very much prone to faults and mine belonged to one such. These PCBs are used in several models, ie they are a common part. Apparently it is a design fault and he says that fault occures mostly due to bad heat sink design. Not due to power issues (sure bad power will damage electronics). Most Inverter AC brands have PCB issues and Daikin is among the worst. He is the only person in Kochi who repairs Inverter AC PCBs successfully. And one of my close friend too got his Daikin ACs PCB repaired from this tech more than 19 months ago and it is still working fine.

Panasonic company technicians now claim that their PCBs are cheaper to replace and costs around Rs3500.

In short Inverter ACs, Refrigerators and Washing Machines are all susceptible to PCB failure. So consumers are eventual losers.
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Old 24th September 2023, 14:32   #7440
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Re: The home / office air-conditioner thread

The outdoor PCB of Voltas Inverter AC went bad Voltas quoted 10.5k for the replacement, which I refused. Replaced it with a non- inverter Daikin.
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