![]() | #226 | |||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | Re: The DSLR Thread Quote:
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Nikon/Pentax whom you think will sell EVIL camera by the boat loads, have much smaller sensors, and can hardly hope to deliver dSLR quality pics. Even their DOF will be lot higher as you already understand. | |||
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![]() | #227 | ||
Newbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney
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| Re: The DSLR Thread Quote:
Sensor is still the same size, only thing that got changed and significantly affects the lens size is the flange distance which got reduced by 6mm. Which in turns mean, designing same lens from 43 mount to M43 mount will require about 2% more optical glass, unless one is okay with lens not being able to focus closer than 2-3 metres. Quote:
I never said Olympus/Panasonic/Sony/Samsung failed or they are crap. Yes Olympus/Sony/Panasonic rule the M43 market, but there wasn`t any significant competition out there except Samsung. Olympus failed at DSLR market, Panasonic never touched DSLR market, Sony is pushing a failed DSLR devision and Samsung never had proper DSLR devision, well except taking Pentax and rebatching them. Biggest hit for EVIL is FASHION industry, second biggest hit is people migrating from P&S to MILD. Now days every singe makeup artist has an Olympus/Panasonic EVIL kit, why so , when 99% of them got no clue about photography or DSLR`s?? They have it because even the high end compacts will either had Decent IQ or decent lens range and this is where EVIL hit hard, both IQ and decent lens range is there. Like I said market wanted a small camera with IQ to match, Lx series/G series were all quite the rage but were always orientated at the market where DSLR users wanted something tiny to pocket rather than being easier to use. Both Pentax and Nikon, identified this Fashion industry need and are just acting on it. Also ONLY Pentax/Nikon have launched EVIL cameras that WILL NOT cannablise there DSLR sales. So effectively only Pentax/Nikon released EVIL cameras for a TARGET market. Now if this feels like I am un-informed then who cares, my opinion isn`t going to change the world and I am not a writer either. In the end of the day, I will still keep my Nikon kit. | ||
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![]() | #228 | |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: The DSLR Thread Quote:
Check this link, Online Depth of Field Calculator If you select the camera as Panasonic G1 (micro four-thirds) as the camera, FL as 25mm, selected f-stop as f/1, subject distance as 10 ft, the total DOF is 1.46 ft. Now change the camera to 5D MKII (full frame) and with the same values, and now the total DOF is 2.96ft. 1.5 ft more than micro four thirds ![]() So what you hear on the internet is true to some extent but they forget to mention one small thing. The DOF with full frame sensor is lesser than that of crop sensor when same POV is maintained and that's because to maintain the same POV, you'll be much closer with a full frame camera (hence altering the subject distance which in turn reduces the DOF). | |
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![]() | #229 | |||||||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | Re: The DSLR Thread Quote:
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I feel you are uninformed because you made statements contrary to facts. For example, you say m4/3 lenses can't be lighter than 4/3 lenses. But they are. | |||||||
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![]() | #230 | ||||||
Newbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
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| re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Quote:
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Samsung being significant competition because Samsung had the best IQ, but that`s again debatable. Quote:
Nikon and Pentax choose to research there markets and made cameras for those intended markets. I made statements that are my opinion, hence the word RECKON. But take it as you wish. Also sorry for being a nit-picker, but I did mention the word SAME LENS. | ||||||
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![]() | #231 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras err. why would you want your m4/3 fast lens to have the same construction or elements as a 4/3 lens if you can get same image quality and "fastness" with a smaller lens. Only reason I could think of, is personal satisfaction. For example certain people believe that ambassador is the best car because its heavy, which also makes it the safest car. ABS/airbags/Crumple zones be damned ![]() That way some people believe that a heavier lens will have better IQ. As for EVIL, the larger the sensor, the better the IQ, no getting around physics. And guess what panasonic is great in not just video, but also in image quality as long as you do not crank up the ISO. And as for sony, it beats both panasonic and Oly in IQ not because of some secret conspiracy, but because it has a APS-C sensor in its evil cameras.. As for the Nikon, its ridiclous. They made a product, wherein it was clear to the design team that it should not canniblize their DSLR sales. So they had to make a product inferior to what the competition was, because a product as good as Sony/Oly/Pana etc., would canniblize DSLR sales. As for failed products and what not, I guess you have something called sales numbers. I do not think any of these EVIL cams can be called failures. Their usage and sales are rising and these companies are doing good in the market. |
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![]() | #232 | |||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Quote:
Talking about fashion crowd buying EVIL cameras, Thom Hogan who never used to look beyond Nikon, now walks around with E-PL1 as his backup. Quote:
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![]() | #233 | ||||||
Newbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
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| re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Quote:
Same sensor size, flange distance reduced by 6mm. Physics says, SAME lens with same optical design needs to increase curvature of the rear element to make it focus closer. That rough 2% increase in optical glass means tiny bit heavier lens. That is for SAME lens with same optical design. Sure another design might get away with less optical glass but then its not the SAME lens anymore. Also I didn`t said that heavier lens is better. Quote:
Wouldn`t it be easier to just not make the camera and put those resources toward current issues and getting manufacturing plants (majority of world`s optical glass is still made in Japan) back to 100%. Kinda like what Canon is doing, its well known Canon wants to develop G series into EVIL and then add EFs/EF mount adapters to it. But Canon is sitting down and waiting for Japan issues to be resolved first. Also just like Olympus, Pentax is a real innovator too and not to mention Ricoh now owns Pentax and Ricoh makes some of the worlds best Optical glass. Quote:
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Once again, Let me quote my post, with important bit in BOLD. Quote:
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![]() | #234 | |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Quote:
I would rather look at the samples, than listen to some snob who cares more about the price of equipment than the quality of pictures. | |
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![]() | #235 | ||||||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Quote:
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Let me repost that table: As an user why should I care about their internal construction as long as specs are same? | ||||||
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![]() | #236 | |||||
Newbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney
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| re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Quote:
Just a question, how many times have you visited Vanbar? or Sun Studios for that matter? The thing is, I listen to Vanbar guys because they provide excellent customer service. They don`t lie about products to sell them. They go out of there ways to help me and to top it off they don`t have high prices, quite reasonable actually. Manager asks for customers feedback before adding new products or cutting off old products. I listen to the guys there because they are not snobs, they are photographers them selves. You will know it, when you visit the store. Quote:
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Ricoh makes medical equipment, mostly to do with optics tough. Ricoh ended up buying Pentax this year. As far as journalists are reporting Ricoh has raised the budget for R&D for pentax. Quote:
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I just give up mate. I repited my post couple of times, if the point still doesn`t go through then chances are it never will. Last edited by rajb3125 : 9th October 2011 at 13:50. | |||||
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![]() | #237 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras
Sorry to confuse you with facts. When I say same lens, I refer to specs like FL range and aperture. If you still think m4/3 lens will be as heavy as 4/3 lens for similar specs, I have nothing more to say. |
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![]() | #238 | |
Newbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney
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| re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Quote:
No, I don't think similar spec lens will be heavier, second generation of almost every product (in regards to photography) turns out to be lighter in weight. So no doubt newer lenses with similar specs will be lighter. But then it's not the same lens, it's similar specced lens but not the same lens. | |
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![]() | #239 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: -
Posts: 1,147
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| re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras There were two categories in the past DSLR crowd. Professionals and people who were into it for the sake of clicking a "better picture". The latter category was catered to by the entry level and to some extent mid level DSLR's. Every company had it. Like Nikon's D-40, Olympus E-420 and so on. Mind you we are not talking of Hasselbalds or Aptus etc here. And for each high end system these companies sold, they sold at least a 100 of their entry level systems. It is this crowd that is migrating big time over to the EVIL cameras. (Lets face it, 90% of entry level DSLR owners never use it to even 50% of its capability.) Because they see one clear advantage, an advantage that does not need the hard "path of learning". Size and weight. Sorry to say but Nikon and Canon were caught with their pants down. They mis-read the market. They had too much invested in their DSLR and lenses business to upset the apple cart. But that does not mean "AVOID CHANGE"!!! Panasonic was a rather late entrant into the photography business and had no historical baggage to carry. And they came up with radical new cameras like LX3. Olympus followed with EP series and Panasonic responded with G series and GF series. Where was Nikon? Or Canon? Now when they have seen the writing on the wall they are responding. Is it too late for them? Remember the Motorola Mobile handsets in India? Once you lose market share in a hyper competitive market, its difficult to gain it back. Last edited by download2live : 11th October 2011 at 08:13. |
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![]() | #240 |
Newbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
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| re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras Geez, I wasn`t aware of the fact that all the amateurs and advanced enthusiasts died and went to heaven. Better yet, we should tell this to Nikon/Canon after all, there is no need for 600D/60D/7D/D5100/D7000/D300s anymore. After all pros buy 5D/1D/D700/D3 series and people for sake of better picture will get D3100/1000D. |
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