[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by pjbiju

Are there motion sensor cameras too? Even I am looking for such a system.

• Preferably motion sensor camera
• Capacity to record feeds for one month at least

If the feed can be monitored remotely, that would be great.
What would be the approximate cost of such a camera? Which brands are available?

Yes, by Motion Sensor there are 2 possibilities:

• Always On - with motion detecting software. Records only segment of video where there is movement.
• Switches on after detecting any motion and captures video.

The first option is cheaper to install.

Yes all feeds can be monitored remotely. You can set it up to send an SMS too with the captured image - not video. Not yet.

Cost would depend upon the requirement. If it is a fool proof solution, costs are higher - better software, hardware, etc.

If its a simple solution then it would not cross 10k.

Whatever you take up please consider post-installation support in the package. That's the biggest headache with these setup.

[tsk1979]

I don't think you need to have any motion detector capability in the camera. when I played with my webcam, I installed a software on my PC which would click a pic only when something moved in the frame.

[NetfreakBombay]

In that case, PC would have to keep receiving streams and process that in real time.

This would not scale beyond 2 cameras on WiFi.

[tsk1979]

Why not?
BW required for color stream is 1mbps max for Color SD stream.
So even with 10 cams, you are nowhere near the actual 20mbps throughput possible over WIFI.

[NetfreakBombay]

Sure about these numbers?

1 mbps (mega bits) means 125 Kilo bytes per second. This bitrate is not possible for CCTV. You need to be able to extract a frame (with identifiable faces) in case of some incidence.

A low quality video with:

640 * 480 resolution
16 bits per pixel
10 frames per second
Compression that reduces size by 80%

Would consume 1200 Kilo Bytes per second or 9 mbps.

Most consumer routers max out at 20 mbps if WPA is on.

[tsk1979]

MY 720P video cam records 720P streams at 7mbps at medium quality settings. you can download a SD video from youtube, and calculate the stream rate.
Infact in my camera I am at 30 frames/second!
As for 16bits/pixel... well I would love to have such a professional cam!
Most cams are 8 bits/pixel even for high quality JPEG stills.

If you take a typical video CD, the bit rate with voice is 1mbps.
I don't think you need more than Video CD bit rate for surveillance.
Moreover VCD is MPEG-2
If you encode the same video in MPEG-4, you will get a bit rate of 500kbps for similar quality.

thats how I calculated my number.

[NetfreakBombay]

Its not allowed to use these codecs (mpeg , h264) for CCTV. Specially in operations where it is mandated by law.

Reason is, you can not always grab a still frame with thee codecs. Surveillance archival footage has to be M-JPEG (or similar) since it preserves individual frames.

[tsk1979]

Even with M-JPEG for a 640x480 you will get around 1.5mbps with medium compression.
Remember JPEG is only 8 bits/pixel.
For a typical 10FPS CCTV footage the bit rate for most commercial cams is around 400kbps
An example site
Understanding Frame Rate - IndigoVision Complete IP Video Security Solutions - IP CCTV, IP Camera, IP Video, Network Video Recorder, Video Management Software

[deky]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

If you need more information we can have a chat. PM me your yahoo or gmail ID. If you want it to be typed in all here. I am up for that too. Only long mails would be an issue.

Thanks, I will pm you my yahoo id after finishing this.

Originally Posted by h@r$h@l

Check your PM please.

I have replied to your PM thanks.

Originally Posted by alpha1

There are two major types of IP cams - dome and PTZ.
Dome is good for closed spaces like offices - they are discrete and non-imposing.
PTZ are the large "pan tilt zoom" cams that are put in industrial setup like warehouse, plants, refineries etc.

This video server will also restrict the clients that can actually access the video stream or the archives.

I need 2 cameras, one for indoor, which will be placed around 10 feet from the reception and the other will be for outdoor and that will be placed around 20 feet from the main gate.

I think this video server and all will make the cost very high. But still I want a type of setup where my clients/ staff cant access the archives.

Cant those files be password protected on the same CPU that is being used by guests?

Originally Posted by Prowler

I have a similar system installed for our office - a DVR with a 500 GB hard drive which is capable of H264 compression and a couple of color High Resolution cameras. The whole set up cost me about 25k about one and half years ago.

Most important thing is be prepared to install extra lighting for the camera (add to the cost of maintenance) or else you will end up with useless grainy images. Second thing is the cameras and the associated feed cables need to be securely installed or expect them to be stolen or vandalized. High vantage points and secure housing is mandatory. These special CCTV cameras come with wide angle view unlike the ubiquitous Webcams.

My DVR has a NIC which can be configured to use a router with its own dedicated IP - essential for back up to a remote server and for access to a password protected webpage through which you can control/view the recordings.

The main camera also has a Pan and tilt motor assembly controlled by a wireless remote.

I think I am looking at your kinda set up. But no tilt/zoom or panning stuff I think

Thanks for reiterating the fact about vandalism

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Yes, by Motion Sensor there are 2 possibilities:

• Always On - with motion detecting software. Records only segment of video where there is movement.
• Switches on after detecting any motion and captures video.

The first option is cheaper to install.

Yes all feeds can be monitored remotely. You can set it up to send an SMS too with the captured image - not video. Not yet.

Cost would depend upon the requirement. If it is a fool proof solution, costs are higher - better software, hardware, etc.

If its a simple solution then it would not cross 10k.

Whatever you take up please consider post-installation support in the package. That's the biggest headache with these setup.

Hmmmm..I dont think I would require motion sensor cameras, I think the more advanced the electronic stuff is and the more time it needs service back up and I am very poor at managing that. I might as well put a high storage HDD and let the cameras run 24/7.

Any harm in the camera running 24/7?

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Its not allowed to use these codecs (mpeg , h264) for CCTV. Specially in operations where it is mandated by law.

Reason is, you can not always grab a still frame with thee codecs. Surveillance archival footage has to be M-JPEG (or similar) since it preserves individual frames.

Ohh, thanks for pointing that out

Anyway guys I have asked a dealer to come tomorrow and show me his products with the prices. Ones I have done with him I will post the discussion here

You can advice me further then

Thanks to you all once again

[Prowler]

@deky

Any harm in the camera running 24/7?

These cameras are designed to run 24/7/365 and so there won't be any problem. You need to have a UPS for these cameras and the DVR. It would be too easy for anyone to turn off the mains supply before any intrusion. But running the lights on UPS will be a problem.
For my simple set up, the emergency lights come on their own with their own internal back up battery.

[deky]

Originally Posted by Prowler

@deky


These cameras are designed to run 24/7/365 and so there won't be any problem. You need to have a UPS for these cameras and the DVR. It would be too easy for anyone to turn off the mains supply before any intrusion. But running the lights on UPS will be a problem.
For my simple set up, the emergency lights come on their own with their own internal back up battery.

That is true, my main electricity panel is outside the buliding (within the premises) and not under lock and key.

Guess I will have to put a lockable door to secure it, but then the guy who comes to take the meter reading will get upset.

Thank You, thats another point to think about before installing the cameras.

BTW can the same UPS that runs the computer system be used to run the two cameras and the DVR??

Regards

[Prowler]

@deky

BTW can the same UPS that runs the computer system be used to run the two cameras and the DVR??

Sure - if it has adequate capacity. Your 2 cameras and the DVR consume less than 200 VA ( going by my example) and so will not be an issue for a decently rated UPS.
They consume less than a modern computer.

[alpha1]

Deky, I would suggest you to fix a budget first - how much would you like to spend, and how much can you stretch it.

CCTV surveillance is a field wherein you can get stuff for peanuts (webcam based) to spending in crores (industrial solution for pipelines and industrial plants)

[rider60]

@deky so did you finally purchase the cameras? and set it up? if so pls put up the brand details and costs it would help me out greatly, if you do not wish to post it here please pm me the details i am in real need for a couple of cameras myself,in this new apartment of mine the watchman is a drunker-ed and i really have no say in association as its more than complicated and best left untouched and i ended up spending 15K to get my badly scratched car repainted last month, i would rather spend that kind of amount on surveillance and make the guilty pay than pay it myself! so guys please help me put up a system.

[ghpk]

Adding to the existing options described here, An non-commercial Surveillance Cam for home use can be setup easily within low budget.
I earlier bought one wireless cam whcih came with one tiny pin hole cam and one receiver for TV, but this product had issues with video output, the TV output was very low dB and my SAMSUNG LED would go on standby as there was no signal.

Later playing with extending cord, i blew the Rs.1400/- cam and its dead.

Last week I purchased a wire cam to monitor my home main entrance, the CAM is a matchbox sized color cam, comes with audio capabilities and has 3 wires,
1). DC 9v IN
2). video out
3). Audio Out

As my purpose current is a non-DVR setup, i would be running a cable from outside home, above the reach of normal hands, and would connect it to my TV's
This is a low budget cam and i am yet to taste its actual performance, the cam alone was Rs.650/- 25 mtrs Wire i bought was Rs.150 additional.

Let me set this up in couple of days and I might post a few pics and actual video.