[ghodlur]

Although not related to car delivery but during the delivery of my Honda Activa, I was asked for "Bakshish" by the sales rep and that too at a time when I was blasting the mechanics for the side indicators and the beepers not working. The look on my face made the sales guy scamper from the spot. Never did he again attempt to ask me for the "Bakshish".

I think you really should feel from heart if you want to gift the sales guy for going out of the way making things easier even if its wee bit. It is not to be taken as a trend.

[deep_bang]

This is surprising to me!! I never even thought of tipping a sales person.
Will i tip next time i go to buy a car: Perhaps not!!
I think that there are very very few who really go out of their way to make it a nice experience!! Most people who tip probably tip out of happiness than because the sales person went out of their way.

[vina]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

A govt clerk will also (ultimately ) do your work even without a bribe. That is what he is paid to do. But people pay them bribe to get a preferential service (getting the work done faster/more smoothly).

The way I see it, any money (or gift) given to a person in return for a preferential service is a bribe.

If buying a car is a token of happiness, then so is getting a driving licence, passport or gas connection. Why are we OK with tipping/gifting a sales person, but find it unethical to bribe a govt clerk/babu ?

I would even go to the extent of saying that tipping a waiter at a reastaurant is also not correct. Still most people (including me) tip the waiters because it is a relatively smaller amount and the waiters are genuinely needy as compared to sales people.


Most members would agree that most car sales people are totally useless. They don't even have knowledge of their own products and we can't even expect them to compare their products with their competitors.

The only information we need from the sales person is price and waiting period. Everything else can be found on team-BHP.



Many members have mentioned above that they have got preferential treatment at the car dealerships in return for a gift given to the sales person. I feel it is a form of bribery, though it cannot be strictly termed as bribery.

I had a friend from the medical field. His hospital had a policy that staff members were not supposed to take any gifts from the family members of the patients. I though it was the same across all hospitals. Members from medical field may kindly enlighten.


My company has a policy that staff members are not supposed to take any gifts from vendors or customers. It is believed that such gifts influence decision making and hence are considered unethical.

Performance based reward/bonus is different because it is given by the company to its employees. If Maruti/Hyundai/Tata etc gives a reward to a sales person, that is perfectly alright with me. I have a problem when a customer is giving a gift to the sales person.

Rohan

Rohan

I think you need to get down the high pedestal into realities of life.

Most sales reps are poorly informed - that everyone knows and cribs about. Most sales reps are paid poorly - that everyone knows and nobody seems to care. So if you do happen to meet somebody who is helping you out, is courteous, makes your buying experience less stressful and happens to wear cheap sandals what is wrong with giving a small personal gift as a token of appreciation?

Comparing these guys to govt. babus is really stupid - govt. guys are usually not paid poorly (although if they are, and they do their jobs well then you need to ask yourself whether it the person in question who is corrupt or the system - I know hundreds of govt. servants, almost all of them are corrupt, but there are several who are not, and while none of the latter will ever accept a cash gift, but a small inexpensive gift does make their day once in a while.) in most cases and if you don't pay up upfront they do on almost all occasions make your life miserable. I once waited at the airport customs desk for four hours after a 30hour journey from San Francisco because these guys wanted a bribe and I wouldn't pay.

Also I don't know about you and may actually get flak for this from others - I would prefer a knowledgeable salesman over team-bhp any day for my sales experience. While you do get information at team-bhp eventually, it almost always has to be dug up out of long threads (be honest guys, on almost all car reviews here the first 20 reply posts are "congratulations" posts) and with heavy personal biases. Team BHP does provide excellent information on mods, dynamics, comparisons etc. but I would rather learn how to sync my phone with the car bluetooth from the sales rep rather than from pictures on team BHP.

Company reward programs usually are inadequate at best and a joke in almost all cases - this you can ask guys from almost any industry. Even if the awards honestly go to the right guys (and they do not, they go to the most vocal guys in best of circumstances and to boss's favourites in the usual case)the event when the award happen and the event when the reason for the award happens are so removed, the whole exercise is meaningless.

As far as gifts influencing decision making is concerned - I thought that way the idea in the first place. If the sales guy makes you happy and you show some appreciation he might be convinced that this is a better way of dealing with people anyway whether or not he gets a "bribe".

Frankly I think this is a very good idea to practice and you should try it too. Here's something you can do (wont cost you anything) - say "thank you" to your office watchman the next time he opens the gate for you and watch his behaviour (with others) for next 15mins. You'll be surprised at what you see.

[Pancham]

Nice thread Ravi
I would like to mention that unlike many people I am very lucky to get a SP who is very polite and helpful. I am keeping my fingers crossed as I am still awaiting delivery of the car. Even I had thought of gifting him a Parker pen. I think that is an obvious choice.

[IQBAL VEERJI]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Although not related to car delivery but during the delivery of my Honda Activa, I was asked for "Bakshish" by the sales rep and that too at a time when I was blasting the mechanics for the side indicators and the beepers not working. The look on my face made the sales guy scamper from the spot. Never did he again attempt to ask me for the "Bakshish".

I think you really should feel from heart if you want to gift the sales guy for going out of the way making things easier even if its wee bit. It is not to be taken as a trend.

Same here GIFT or BAKHSHISH for the sales guy or team????
In my case of delivery of my ALTO K10 at Vitesse Andheri , the sales guy and his partener were in fact hiding them self sheepishly, and handed over all formalties to a new guy.
We just took the delivery and drove away.
Just as we were driving away his female sales team coleague came over to me and said, "Sir if you get a call from our customer care feed back Pls say good service given feedback". I pretended I have not heard and drove away.Bakhshish ,my foot!!!!
(Pls read my portions "MY SUPERIOR white ALTO K10 " thread.)

[snorting bull]

I agree with Rohan to some extent. I didn't want to corrupt people with gifts or any other monetary benefits. The problem with that is, they start to expect the same with every other guy. Here is what I did. I sent a thank you sms to his mobile and sent out an appreciation mail to his company.

[noopster]

@vina- I agree with absolutely everything in your post except this:

Originally Posted by vina

Rohan

...I would prefer a knowledgeable salesman over team-bhp any day for my sales experience. While you do get information at team-bhp eventually, it almost always has to be dug up out of long threads (be honest guys, on almost all car reviews here the first 20 reply posts are "congratulations" posts) and with heavy personal biases. Team BHP does provide excellent information on mods, dynamics, comparisons etc. but I would rather learn how to sync my phone with the car bluetooth from the sales rep rather than from pictures on team BHP.

When I bought my car earlier this year, I knew everything that I needed to about it before I got to the showroom. In fact the first SR I had (not the one who I got the gift for) knew precious little about the vehicle and I was able to actually educate her on a few aspects. I used the opportunity to check for myself the negatives listed in the reviews: narrow seat, bad IRVM, antiquated ICE etc. and assure myself that none of these was a dealbreaker. And of course there are things that you can learn only from a personal visit: in my Vento's case it was the weird thing you need to do to get the wipers in "service" position (for cleaning) . And look and feel, interiors, build quality, ride quality, pick-up, refinement and NVH all need to be checked out first hand- but that's more from the TD and not much input the SR in that process.

This is going so let me stick to the point- I agree with you on comparisons with public servants taking bribes being totally odious. As someone rightly said, this shagun or at worst a tip/gratuity- nobody is forcing you to do it. Some cultures accept it, some don't. It is and should be an individual's choice.

[mmxylorider]

Experience in buying both my vehicles has been anything but smooth. Skipping all other details, bakshish for the sales rep was probably a nice blasting from the dealership GM.

Bakshish for the dealer GM was to make numerous home visits to get me papers, fit the number plate (yes they actually came home), deliver the RC card, again personally and come to my office with company Area manager to apologize, in written.

[sgiitk]

I think this is an atrocious practice. In may cases the fellow will not let you drive the car out, and then DEMAND baksheesh. happened both times when I took delivery of my Hyundai's. Last year when I bought my Civic I was happy to see this practice not there in Push Honda. However, one joker fouled the story when he asked for gratification for putting on the plates a couple of days later.

[vina]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think this is an atrocious practice. In may cases the fellow will not let you drive the car out, and then DEMAND baksheesh. happened both times when I took delivery of my Hyundai's. Last year when I bought my Civic I was happy to see this practice not there in Push Honda. However, one joker fouled the story when he asked for gratification for putting on the plates a couple of days later.

Sir

while I would give something to appreciate good service after it has been delivered, I would blasst the guys if they demand anything - that is corruption plain and simple and the guys who make such demands are not interested in serving you anyway.

However given the lowly rank of most of these guys I think a quick complaint to the manager should usually be enough to put them in line.

[rohan_iitr]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

I had shown my appreciation to the Sales executive by gifting him a Big Bazaar gift voucher of Rs 500 and box of sweets apart from the box of sweets for the staff at the showroom.

The person responded back by ensuring that I got the RC book within 5 days of delivery. Did not ask him how he did that.

Exactly what I am trying to say - a customer gifts/tips a sales person, the sales person responds by providing priority service to the customer. How is this any different from bribe paid at a govt office ?

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

Rather than gifting a sales rep and share your joy, his commission on the sale should have a percentage based on the feedback that you give post the purchase? That is adequate motivation for the sales rep to perform consistently to get maximum buck.

+1

Originally Posted by bandlimitedlife

Lets say the sales guy went out of his way to help you out and did the best he could to make his customer happy. There is nothing wrong in the customer showing his appreciation with a little something.

We are already expressing our appreciation to the sales person by giving good feedback in the feedback form if he has been useful in the sales process. That is sufficient from the customer, the sales person should not expect another token of appreciation from the customer in the form of a gift.

Originally Posted by vina

Also I don't know about you and may actually get flak for this from others - I would prefer a knowledgeable salesman over team-bhp any day for my sales experience. While you do get information at team-bhp eventually, it almost always has to be dug up out of long threads (be honest guys, on almost all car reviews here the first 20 reply posts are "congratulations" posts) and with heavy personal biases. Team BHP does provide excellent information on mods, dynamics, comparisons etc. but I would rather learn how to sync my phone with the car bluetooth from the sales rep rather than from pictures on team BHP.

I know some members on forums can be a bit biased towards their respective brands (I even started a thread on this topic and received a lot of brick bats from the fanboys ). Nevertheless, I still consider information on this forum to be much more unbiased, accurate and reliable, compared to what we get from the sales people. One just needs to spend some time on the forum and go through the respective threads.

Originally Posted by vina

Frankly I think this is a very good idea to practice and you should try it too. Here's something you can do (wont cost you anything) - say "thank you" to your office watchman the next time he opens the gate for you and watch his behaviour (with others) for next 15mins. You'll be surprised at what you see.

I am all for politeness and courtesy towards sales people, watchmen, waiters etc, all I am saying is that these people should not expect a tip by default.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Although not related to car delivery but during the delivery of my Honda Activa, I was asked for "Bakshish" by the sales rep and that too at a time when I was blasting the mechanics for the side indicators and the beepers not working. The look on my face made the sales guy scamper from the spot. Never did he again attempt to ask me for the "Bakshish".

I think you really should feel from heart if you want to gift the sales guy for going out of the way making things easier even if its wee bit. It is not to be taken as a trend.

Originally Posted by snorting bull

I agree with Rohan to some extent. I didn't want to corrupt people with gifts or any other monetary benefits. The problem with that is, they start to expect the same with every other guy. Here is what I did. I sent a thank you sms to his mobile and sent out an appreciation mail to his company.

Exactly what I am trying to say - some customers may like to give a token of appreciation to a sales person in return for extraordinary service. But the trend catches on and every sales person starts expecting gifts from customer as if it was their birth right.

Rohan

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

Exactly what I am trying to say - some customers may like to give a token of appreciation to a sales person in return for extraordinary service. But the trend catches on and every sales person starts expecting gifts from customer as if it was their birth right.

+1
When i got my car delivered the sales guy just stood there as i was about to leave. The look on his face said it all. I just turned my face away and drove off. Even if i had been the type who would tip salesmen, i wouldn't have tipped this guy, for he delivered my car without properly cleaning it.

[vina]

Originally Posted by Daewood

+1
When i got my car delivered the sales guy just stood there as i was about to leave. The look on his face said it all. I just turned my face away and drove off. Even if i had been the type who would tip salesmen, i wouldn't have tipped this guy, for he delivered my car without properly cleaning it.

I would have done the same in your position. In fact I would have raised hell first.

However we need to understand that a social/political/economic system where these guys earn less in salaries than the fees you have to pay for two kids to go to a decent school is by itself corrupt. In such a system the salaries are set accounting for all the "tips" they are going to get. (e.g. in U.S. there is almost no salary for waiters and waitresses, practically all their earnings are tips - the system accounts for that when settings their wages).

think about it this way - in a country with 35% taxes the guy who evades those taxes is a thief and there is no other way to describe it. But in a country that charges 99% taxes the guy who doesn't evade taxes is a fool and one who is supporting a morally corrupt government.


If you are in a system where you know that a significant fraction of the income of the person you are dealing with depends on your tips and that without those tips he will not make a decent living (I'm not talking of extravagance here - I'm talking about enough to live with dignity) and the guy gives you a good service and then you don't pay up - I think you are the thief (probably not - but use a milder word here and you get my point) in that scenario. Whether the system is good or not is a different debate, but once you live in such a system you must calibrate your response to the realities as they exist.

[Brix]

According to most laws in US - accepting a gift under $50 is allowed. Anything above that should be politely declined and is unlawful.

For India, that would be ~Rs.300. A gift is merely to lubricate the human relationships. Dont think of it was hand greasing.

[sgiitk]

@Brix; This is blackmail money not a voluntary gift! They just block the car, and the boss just grins!