The Premier 118 NE thread

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider

As per the 118 NE Service Manual, the filter discussed in the previous posts is made of felt.

Hi Rahul & Ilangop,
What make of the booster did you buy? Also was the master cylinder would have been changed with that - right?
I still notice that the braking is not upto the mark i.e the brake doesnt feel like it is booster assisted. I got the working of vacuum and everything chekced but still feel that i have to press the pedal too much to stop the car.
It maybe because of driving these modern cars which have super power brakes - I dont know. Also i have not driven another 118NE since long to judge the difference
Could it be because of the worn out brake pads?

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

Hi Rahul & Ilangop,
What make of the booster did you buy? Also was the master cylinder would have been changed with that - right?
I still notice that the braking is not upto the mark i.e the brake doesnt feel like it is booster assisted. I got the working of vacuum and everything chekced but still feel that i have to press the pedal too much to stop the car.
It maybe because of driving these modern cars which have super power brakes - I dont know. Also i have not driven another 118NE since long to judge the difference
Could it be because of the worn out brake pads?

Booster and TMC are of TVS-Girling make. Booster and the TMC are not the only components that govern the braking. Actually I had replaced the front brake rubber kit, pads, and the rear wheel cylinders as well. There is a markable difference in the free rolling of the vehicle as soon as the front brake cylinder kit is changed. The returning of the brake pads after braking is done by the rubber seal around the piston. And it is recommended that you change it once in 50K kms.

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by ilangop

Vaidya,
I fetched a propeller shaft lying with my mechanic only and tested on my car. It worked fine without any misalignment and vibration. But the pillow block is worn out and the UJ bearings were dry & lose out of usage without proper lubrication. So again I temperorily reverted back to the old shaft and procured the materials to replace the UJ and pillow block. Hope my car is back to normal by this week end.

Here is a list of experiments that I had done on my car and my car is back to normal now.
Tried replacing all joint & the pillow block in the shaft borrowed from my mechanic. Again the same issue -vibration. My mechanic raised his hands saying that he had done his best. One can imagine how annoying it could be, no results even after re-doing the same job twice from a mechanic who claims to be a Premier / Fiat specialist.

At this point after buring a small hole in my pocket, I decided to live with it and forcing myself to drive at <40kmph. During every drive my mind was filled with agony and was abusing my mechanic like anything for his negligence & all the money that went in water. For some time I reftrained from using the car at all. And that was when karthik (funkycar) visited me.

Once again the fire to solve the problem and bring my NE back to life got ignited. This time I didnt want to do a trial & error job. Rather go for a new one. By this time I had used my car for about 150 - 200 km of city driving and beacuse of which the swapped (good) differential got a mechanical damage because of which it would give a kad - kad sound for every rotation of propeller shaft.

First I approached Kalpana Motors, Pune and casually asked for an approxiamte price for a new differential & propeller shaft assembly. His guess was about 7 - 8K for the shaft assembly and 12 - 15k for half differential kit (only the crown & pinion & smaller gears set) which I have to get assembled outside. Having burnt my finger once due to lack of my mechanic's competency & the hefty price that he quoted I didnt proceed further. Later while searching in this team-bhp forum I took the contact details of shetty motors, mumbai and gave them a ring. Yes, they had them and the price I was quoted was 5.5K for propeller shaft assy and 6.5K for the differential unit.

Now I found them, but how to collect it. They are closed on Sundays, and I didnt want to take a day off from office. So a friend (our ex-colleague) in Mumbai went to Shetty Motors and got the parts. Though there was no discount on price, he was a good person. Shetty Motors has 2 branches - one in Opera house & other somewhere on the National highway (dont remember the name) My friend had paid for the shaft, differential & the packing for the differential. But while my friend visited their shop at Opera house, they only had the differential. And I had to collect the shaft from the other branch as it was on the way back to Pune. I was ok with this.

Thanks to Abhishek (Obsessed by fiat) who immediately agreed to drive till Mumai and help me collect the parts on his Ford Figo. We both of us along with our families left at around 6:30Am and reached my froend's place at 10:00. We were welcomed with Upma and coffee. Spent some time there chit-chatting with them and left from there with the differential. On the way we spent some time at a scrap market (Dont know the name of the place). It was really a nice place to roam around and I wanted almost everything that I saw. AT around 4:00Pm in the evening we collected the Propeller shaft from the seller's residence itself and came back home.

Couple of days later took an appointment with another mechanic (Lawrence, a tamilian settled in Pune) and handed over him the parts. By evening my car was back with the new propeller shaft. Car was back to normal without any vibrations, still with the kad-kad noise from the differential. But Lawrence was too occupied with other vehicles, so gave me another appointment a week later. In a weeks time I had also procured new trailing arms and together with the differential they were also changed. Filled the differential with new oil and Yes, my NE is back in to action again. I had a big smile after the test drive and I take to office atleast twice a week.

At the end of this lengthly experiment I was setback by 16K, while I bought the car for 25K. The convincing factor is I have my car back and I once touched 100 Kmph. I shall share the post-mortem report of the old propeller shaft, the discovery of the source of vibration, the after effects of vehicle vibrations, and an upgrade experiment in the following posts.

[funkykar]

^ Phew! If one is obsessed with a car like this, even small niggles can cause loss of sleep. This was a big time issue you had recently been facing. Finally, finally, you can get good sleep during night.

Now all is well, why not drive down to Bangalore for a weekend cup of coffee

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by ilangop

At this point after buring a small hole in my pocket, I decided to live with it and forcing myself to drive at <40kmph. During every drive my mind was filled with agony and was abusing my mechanic like anything for his negligence & all the money that went in water. For some time I reftrained from using the car at all.

Hello Ilangop,
I have gone through the EXACT phase and that too because of the same problem as yours! I refrained from using it for almost a year till my mechanic cracked the problem almost 90% (but not 100%).
I am really amazed and happy that you got your hands on a brand new prop shaft and differential casing
That is really great and i know the feeling when you hear that its 'Available'. All classic car lovers will agree to that i guess.
Can i get the contact number of Shetty Motors as i might get the prop shaft & Differential myself.
Also looking forward to your R&D on the noise and vibration >>

[ilangop]

@ Karthik, To Bangalore, I will have to wait till my wife learns driving.
@ Vaidya, Contact info for Shetty motors - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/mumbai...ml#post1919186

After the car was back to normal, I still couldnt rest till I knew the reason for such vibrations in the shaft. My mechanic once told that the UJs are not reusable. They tend to get damaged while being removed from the yoke. As this spare propeller shaft was anyways damaged I dared to remove the joint and proceed till getting the pillow block off the shaft. Eureka, it was the bearing in the pillow block. While fitting the pillow block the fitter had slammed on the side wall of the bearing. Because of which the centre had got offset and virations start emerging with higher speeds. Once can see the hammer marks on the bearing from the attached picture.
As there is no use in going back to the mechanic, as anyways the time & money lost is lost for ever, I only decided not to go to him again for such jobs.

After Effects: With the vehicle being jolted vigorously for a couple of 100s of kilometers, some of the door hinges have come loose. The steering column bearing gained some play, which will be solved with new bearings. The dash board and door trims have to be tightened a little. The seat bolts had got loosened but ahout half thread. All theses have increased the in cabin noise levels, but no where closer to the noises outside due to road traffic.

I am aware that there is a separate section for tires, yet I would like to know the maximum rim width that can accomodate the 5.2 / 13" tire of our 118NE. The stock rim measures 4.5". Please help me with this info.

[KkVaidya]

I have been facing this door shuting problem since 5 years now. The driver side door is a bit stiff on closing. I tried to re-align a dozen times but still no help. Consulted 2 bodyshops but that also in vain.
The problem is that when the door is shut - i mean thrown - with normal effort, it tends to bounce back. So it does not shut properly ; there are 2 notches or stages of closing. The first notch holds the door so you cant open it whithout pressing the handle and the 2nd notch gets the door closed flush. With normal effort, the door only goes 1st notch. So i have to press it; keep the hand on the door, till it shuts. I feel the problem is bouncing somewhere due to the beading. The beading was replaced in 2007 but the same problem still persists. The rest of the doors are butter smooth & require just a small nudge.
I tried removing the beading and the problem vanishes. But i cant keep without the beading. Can anyone suggest what could be the problem >>

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Ilangop - GOOD! Now you know that many mechanics don't know what they are doing. Please show me the car when you bring it to "office".

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[kavesh55]

Originally Posted by ilangop

At the end of this lengthly experiment I was setback by 16K, while I bought the car for 25K. The convincing factor is I have my car back and I once touched 100 Kmph. I shall share the post-mortem report of the old propeller shaft, the discovery of the source of vibration, the after effects of vehicle vibrations, and an upgrade experiment in the following posts.

Hi Ilangop- You should not have a problem considering you have a senior colleague who I believe can reincarnate the NE. Taking advice from him most things should be DIY.

[funkykar]

I happened to see old Top Gear editions last week. In season 1, episode 8, they soup up a Lada with new engine and suspension with 180 BHP power and take it on to their race track. They drift, drive side ways and so on. It was just awesome to see that and wished my NE also could do that

[Scarlet_Rider]

Originally Posted by ilangop

The convincing factor is I have my car back and I once touched 100 Kmph.

Nice write up regarding your experience. Finding a mechanic who knows what he is doing itself is a challenge. Good to hear that your car is back in action!

Originally Posted by funkykar

I happened to see old Top Gear editions last week. In season 1, episode 8, they soup up a Lada with new engine and suspension with 180 BHP power and take it on to their race track. They drift, drive side ways and so on. It was just awesome to see that and wished my NE also could do that.

Imagine our cars with a 180 BHP engine! We can surprise a lot of folks on the road! They will not know what went past them! The NE would need a very strong body and an additional fuel tank as well!

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

I have been facing this door shuting problem since 5 years now. The driver side door is a bit stiff on closing. I tried to re-align a dozen times but still no help.

I am posting pictures from the pages of the 118 NE service manual that may help you in resolving the problem with the door.

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider

I am posting pictures from the pages of the 118 NE service manual that may help you in resolving the problem with the door.

Hi Rahul,
Need your help to please publish the 'Differential Servicing' pages from your workshop manual.
I also have plans to change the axle hypoid gear to the padmini's (4.3) which has a wider ration compared to the present (3.9).

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

I also have plans to change the axle hypoid gear to the padmini's (4.3) which has a wider ration compared to the present (3.9).

Vaidya, Why would you want to do that? The A12 engine is itself torquey & that too with the Hitachi carb you have, you shouldnt be starving for torque at all. Except for better acceleration, you will face drop in mileage & wrong speedo readings. I remember Behram Sir mentioning that he has plonked in the 3.9 differentials into his Padminis.
BTW, what type of swpping are you planning for. Stripping down the differential and replacing only the crown & pinion or a simple direct swap of the complete housing?
Found a link to download Fiat 124 service literature
car sharedlippes: Fiat 124 Spider Workshop Service Manual
This one is for quick reference
Fiat 124 Spider - Service Manual - Part 08
In principle it is one & the same on our NEs, till the rear axle, brakes, suspensions, Steering system, Seats & little of electricals. Hope the attachment helps

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by ilangop

Vaidya,
In principle it is one & the same on our NEs, till the rear axle, brakes, suspensions, Steering system, Seats & little of electricals. Hope the attachment helps

I thought the drivetrain is similar to the Datsun 1200! Or is it that both Fiat 124 & Datsun drivetrain have similarities?
Well, if you see the Final Drive ratio in the 124 manual (what you gave in link), it is 4.3 and not 3.9. I have read somewhere that the final drive ratio was changed by Premier in the interests of better fuel economy. I had a discussion on this with Behrambhai and he only suggested this. He had carried this experiment in his test vehicle and it used to run like a bomb
I agree the mileage will go down but it does not bother as i don't use it daily. But I did not understand as how the speedometer will show a wrong reading! Can you please explain?

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

I agree the mileage will go down but it does not bother as i don't use it daily. But I did not understand as how the speedometer will show a wrong reading! Can you please explain?

Check the scribd link for Rear Axle (Page 27-2). There is a mention on 3.9 ratio for manual transmission for vehicles after 1978.
Please do confirm with Behram sir, if he had also changed the tyre sizes along with the final drive.
The speedo cable only translates the propeller shaft (PS) rotations to speedometer. With 3.9 ratio, the PS rotates 3.9 times for 1 tyre rotation. For covering the same distance the propeller shaft has to rotate 4.3 times now. Hence you speedo reading will be 4.3/3.9 = 1.1 times to actual speed. Also the odo count will addup for ever 1/1.1 = 0.9 kms. For instance, you would have covered only 9Kms when the odo actually shows 10km. And when the speedo needle points 60kmph, the car will be actually travelling at 60*3.9/4.3 = 54 kmph.