[Nicky]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks. I have also heard rumours of the VW Jetta coming with a 1.4 TSI. Performance could easily match the Civic & Altis, while the value equation would be unbeatable (if priced well, of course). However, VW will have three main challenges with the 1.4 TSI motor:

- The image of a "1.4". Most mass-market customers gauge the value of an engine by the "cc". This wouldn't work the Jetta's way in the premium segment.

- A complication in brand positioning where VW is using an inferior engine to the Skoda Laura (1.8 TSI).

- Price : If the 1.4 TSI is significantly cheaper than the diesel, well, it could make the diesel look severely over-priced. On the other hand, a 1.4 TSI can't be priced too close (within 2 lakhs of the diesel) as you get 1.8 TSIs for the money.

You are very much correct about the image of 1.4 for mass market. but according to VW strategy, this product is more targeted for Premium Segment people who really do the know-how of the product before they buy.

It will surely face heat from Skoda Laura but again it's a new product with more appeal (in person) and gadgets. so the price difference between these 2 products will be there for sure.

[Swanand Inamdar]

You couldnt have said it better, GTO. Bang on, with the analysis and roadblocks in getting the 1.4 TSi in India.
Pricing, positioning and image goes for a toss, if that happens.

By the by, VW would be better of actually getting the 1.8 TSI in the Jetta and see some sales, than getting the 1.4 and losing it alltogether!

[Akshay1234]

The 1.4 is also available in the 160bhp tune so this might just be that. 120 bhp would probably be too underpowered for the segment it is aimed at.

[Abhi_Automobile]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks. I have also heard rumours of the VW Jetta coming with a 1.4 TSI. Performance could easily match the Civic & Altis, while the value equation would be unbeatable (if priced well, of course). However, VW will have three main challenges with the 1.4 TSI motor:

- The image of a "1.4". Most mass-market customers gauge the value of an engine by the "cc". This wouldn't work the Jetta's way in the premium segment.

- A complication in brand positioning where VW is using an inferior engine to the Skoda Laura (1.8 TSI).

- Price : If the 1.4 TSI is significantly cheaper than the diesel, well, it could make the diesel look severely over-priced. On the other hand, a 1.4 TSI can't be priced too close (within 2 lakhs of the diesel) as you get 1.8 TSIs for the money.

GTO, I generally tend to have similar preference as yours (like 'classy' understated designs over over styled complex ones, engine being the most important component on the car, Euros=Diesels; Japs=Petrols etc.). However, this time I think you have ignored the fact that the 1.4 TSI has been awarded 'best engine in the world' award for 2 consecutive years in running. So, I wouldn't necessarily call it an 'inferior' engine. In fact, if they bring it in the 160 bhp version, then it should match the 1.8TSI on performance, while being much more efficient. This should also help them in pricing it lower than otherwise.

Ideal scenario (for us): Bring the 1.4 TSI 160 bhp in Jetta. Bring the same engine in Vento in 'detuned' 122 bhp version. economies of scale. Vento will then have the best engine in both diesel and petrol avatars.

Agree with all your other points though. The beiggest one of them being that fact that Skoda has been selling the higher capacity 1.8 TSI for whopping 1.5 lakh plus discounts.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

Ideal scenario (for us): Bring the 1.4 TSI 160 bhp in Jetta.

The 1.4 Tsi in 160 hp tune may require 95 octane petrol and VW would not risk it IMO.

[ajmat]

Will be interesting how BMW will sell the 328 as a 4 cyl turbo 2 ltr. Merc petrols are 1.8 turbo but no one tom toms that

[HKap]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks. I have also heard rumours of the VW Jetta coming with a 1.4 TSI. Performance could easily match the Civic & Altis, while the value equation would be unbeatable (if priced well, of course). However, VW will have three main challenges with the 1.4 TSI motor:

- The image of a "1.4". Most mass-market customers gauge the value of an engine by the "cc". This wouldn't work the Jetta's way in the premium segment.

- A complication in brand positioning where VW is using an inferior engine to the Skoda Laura (1.8 TSI).

- Price : If the 1.4 TSI is significantly cheaper than the diesel, well, it could make the diesel look severely over-priced. On the other hand, a 1.4 TSI can't be priced too close (within 2 lakhs of the diesel) as you get 1.8 TSIs for the money.

I have also heard from some dealers that a petrol Jetta (most likely 1.4 TSI) would be available soon. The pricing I am guessing will be similar to the Laura petrol but the difference will be that the Jetta will be loaded with gizmos. Thats the only way they can draw people to the car. As you pointed out earlier they cannot price the petrol ridiculously lower than the diesel since that will make the diesel look pricey.

This means that we are looking at a 12-13 ex-showroom price for the loaded version.

Coming to your point of performance of the Jetta vs the civic and the corolla. I think it will match these two as they are today. The new civic is around the corner and it looks like power will be up to 140bhp. The civic will most likely be lighter than the Jetta too.


It would be so much easier if they plonked that engine in the vento or the polo. --- I'm just saying.

[fuel_addict]

While this may be off topic, but won't it make more sense for VW to target the mass market and plonk a 4 cylinder engine in the Polo diesel knowing the market's increasing inclination towards the diesel. 1.4 TSI in a Jetta does sound like a good competitor to the T-Jet and Laura TSI if priced well but it's a petrol motor at the end of the day. Only hard core enthusiasts will give it a serious thought.

[nik_kapur]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

While this may be off topic, but won't it make more sense for VW to target the mass market and plonk a 4 cylinder engine in the Polo diesel knowing the market's increasing inclination towards the diesel. 1.4 TSI in a Jetta does sound like a good competitor to the T-Jet and Laura TSI if priced well but it's a petrol motor at the end of the day. Only hard core enthusiasts will give it a serious thought.

I dont think the Tjet is even considered competition by players in India. With respect to the TSI Motor, i think VW might know something that we dont !! With the Government thinking about ways to curb the sale of subsidized diesel to private car owners, we may just see Petrol cars coming back into the reckoning once the cost advantage of a diesel isnt worth the extra bucks spent on buying the car. Also, VW will want to be well geared for this situation if it ever arises.

GTO made a valid point about a 1.8 Laura being perceived as superior to a 1.4 Jetta, but we must keep in mind that the Laura will be phased out probably next year once the next gen Laura is launched. Im sure the next gen Laura will carry the 1.4 motor as well. (Mission L or D or whatever it was called)

[antz.bin]

Sorry for OT + Noob query. I see that VW also has a 1.2 TSi which pumps 105 horses. Whats stopping them from plonking it in the Polo instead of the 1.6. Avail of the duty benefit and kill the petrol competition hot hatch (== Fabia 1.6) which doesn't do very well anyways...

[Abhi_Automobile]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

Sorry for OT + Noob query. I see that VW also has a 1.2 TSi which pumps 105 horses. Whats stopping them from plonking it in the Polo instead of the 1.6. Avail of the duty benefit and kill the petrol competition hot hatch (== Fabia 1.6) which doesn't do very well anyways...

The reason they don't have it is because despite being smaller in size, it is costlier to manufacture. This is due to the hi-tec hardware in it. Its turbo charged and direct injection.

PS: The TSI engines also feature variable valve tech (better known to junta as VTEC). The VTEC is such a small component of the hi-tec TSI engines that it hardly gets a mention. Which also gives us an indication that the Japs (Hinda dn Toyta) haven't done much innovation of late, have they. the i-VTEC is a sophisticated enough tech till ANHC level cars, but for segment above, turbo charged direct injection engines add a lot of value)

[avishar]

An interesting thread pertaining to this discussion.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ess-india.html

[vinj14]

This would certainly give life to petro-car market if priced right !!

My only wish is that they bring an automatic dsg variant. As per the VW uk website the 1.4l 122ps comes only with the 6-speed manual. Its only the the 1.4l 160ps which gets the 7 speed auto dsg option. Then again, the brits get the 1.4l 122ps variant of the skoda octavia 2 (laura) with a 7 speed auto dsg option. So if they really want to, i'm sure they can find a way to add the dsg option to the TSI!

Whats also interesting is that, in the UK, there isn't a huge difference between the prices of the VW 2.0 TDI and the 1.4TSI (around 75,000 to 1.5lks) variants. If they want the TSI to sell in good numbers here they can afford the adopt the same pricing strategy!!

People who drive in metro cities have really started to feel the benefits of automatics with the ever increasing traffic-annoyance factor! VW has a huge advantage here with their DSG providing all the luxury of an automatic without compramising on the FE. Add the DSG to vento diesel, add the DSG to the laura RS, add the DSG to the upcming TSI and you guys might really starting dominating the C , C+ segment!

[amitg79]

I have a question regarding the 160 / 120 hp variants. Is the 160 bhp TSI the same engine tuned for more power, or is it the twincharged (Turbocharged + Supercharged) one? If its the latter, will they bring it in considering the fuel quality in India?

[kevintomin]

160 HP version is twin charged. While 122 HP is turbo charged.

Originally Posted by amitg79

I have a question regarding the 160 / 120 hp variants. Is the 160 bhp TSI the same engine tuned for more power, or is it the twincharged (Turbocharged + Supercharged) one? If its the latter, will they bring it in considering the fuel quality in India?