[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

It's like Apple who removed the 3.5mm headphone jack in the iPhone. How many people made a hue and cry and it was a huge deal. When the new iPhone 7 was launched people simply queued up and bought one. Now all the Android flagships are also without one.

I’d agree with your analogy if VW is offering EVS. Else, they are just trying to make their losses in India and move on. No secret that VAG + Skoda India is a sinking ship.

Also, “Once bitten twice shy?” I’m sure WV doesn’t want to sell a diesel to get rid of it’s dirty image.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Stribog

This reduction is definitely temporary. Humanity has been hit with even worse plagues and pandemics, always bounced back.

I wonder if covid induced demand shortage was even considered in a long term decision.

Actually I wasn't referring to the COVID induced demand shortage. My point was things will bounce back but there is going to be a shift in buying trends which will not be short term. WFH is here to stay which means cars as daily commute will reduce. Cars will be seen as safer and maybe preferred for highways and long drives, but those trips will also change and may reduce people just deciding to run away for the weekend to a resort.

With this type of uncertainty in jobs and travel, I would not look at a premium car firstly and would automatically look at a petrol car that I can peacefully park in basement for weeks unlike diesel which works best when used and run. Secondly I would focus less on FE and look at something more fun to drive since WFH will be the thing for a while now.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I’d agree with your analogy if VW is offering EVS. Else, they are just trying to make their losses in India and move on. No secret that VAG + Skoda India is a sinking ship.

Also, “Once bitten twice shy?” I’m sure WV doesn’t want to sell a diesel to get rid of it’s dirty image.

Yes they aren't doing too great but shouldn't they be more conservative and not pump more money and come up with India specific cars and have such grand plans for the future. That is not the sign of a ship that is sinking. With the current lineup and future plans, they are like full steam ahead.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Yup I'm well aware of this and if you see, it cements my point that Kia and Hyundai are being very greedy with the pricing of their Turbo Petrol offering. They are intentionally pushing the diesel down buyers throats by pricing the turbo petrol higher and having more options to choose in Diesel vs petrol.

If you remember when the Ecosport was launched the price difference between the EcoBoost and TDCi was 70K. Back then we felt that difference was not enough as the difference in fuel costs was huge and Ecoboost was not great in mileage. If you see in your table, Mahindra is still keeping the ~60K price delta but now the diesel fuel is much more expensive and the BS6 maintenance we don't know. Mahindra also reduced prices overall of XUV across the board. Also remember diesel BS6 FE is lesser than BS4 so the advantage is even lesser. Tata has a huge difference with the turbo petrol and diesel which makes the petrol a good vfm pick.

The Hyundai Venue is where it gets interesting. The 55K difference between the 1.0L GDI vs the 1.5L CRDI is enough to tilt the sales in favour of the Turbo petrol. 44% from turbo petrol, 30% from Diesel and 26% from 1.2L NA petrol. And the majority of sales would have been during BS4. Which means with the new 1.5L BS6 diesel I am expecting the ratio to shift even further in favour of 1.0L T-GDI.

A much simpler way to look at it - small cars segments are increasing leaning towards petrol power, whereas diesels are preferred higher up.

If you want more data for analysis - bring in Audi as well. They have been doing numbers similar to Volvo and Jaguar ever since the move to the petrol-only portfolio. Even VW's 'diesel-exit' strategy announced clearly mentions they are watching the space for bigger cars.

"Intentionally pushing the diesel down buyers throats"? Assumes that buyers of diesel don't know any better! As recent as 2019 - 42% of the forum favoured diesel as against 55% for petrol. That percentage should have reduced now, but I wouldn't assume zero buyers for diesels especially in the higher segments. If the sales figures are hard to believe - may be time for a fresh BS6 poll!

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Nope I was never looking at NA vs Diesel. Was comparing 1.0L TSI with the old 1.5L TDI.

One of the exceptional cases - isn't it? VW has truly priced the 1.0 TSI well. Hope the same amount of localization is carried forward to the 1.5 TSI as well. Else not going to help the Taigun / Vision IN much, except for the lower variants.

PS: Thanks for the correction on Ameo TSI DSG.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

These excel sheets are nice on paper but not in real. Reasons:

1. You have taken Delhi current prices but for more than a month Diesel was Rs.80+ in Delhi. The target from the govt has always been to discourage diesel as private vehicles so the prices will always be dynamic and in the future you don't know what will happen.
2. Delhi is totally anti diesel with the NGT regulations. Nobody buys diesel there with 10 year ban which means if you buy a car and keep it for 8 years nobody is going to buy from you.
3. In Bangalore the price difference between petrol and diesel is less than Rs.5 right now and will only keep reducing.
4. Your calculations are done skewed towards diesel. The diesel FE is taken as 20 and 18kmpl which is city mileage driven efficiently. (Even in a frugal W-RV i-DTEC I am yet to touch 20kmpl on highway).
5. Incase of petrol you have taken 10kmpl and 12kmpl. We had the polo 1.0L TSI for the official review and redlined to galore. Drove it like we stole it and ensured we downshifted just for the sake of it for every overtake. The FE was 11.2kmpl.

With your calculations diesel will always look like a better option. Also you are discounting the fact that BS6 diesels give lower FE and actually waste diesel by burning them rich for purging the LNT and for DPF need high revs sustained for self cleaning. If both cars are MT, the FE difference will be 4-6kmpl not 8-10kmpl, especially since now most have 6 speed boxes.

As you are well aware, we always compare with ex-showroom Delhi prices and rates, as a standard. Not literally to purchase from Delhi, hence skipping the first two arguments. Price across cities still show a difference between 5-7 kmpl, and Delhi is no exception to prices.



Regarding FE figures that you allege is 'skewed' - Those were not my plain assumptions, but after glancing through multiple comments on the forum. Now would you argue those were skewed too? Nexon Petrol which I used for above, example -

"I am planning to buy Nexon petrol (XM MT). I took a test drive last week and completely satisfied with the performance of the vehicle. Only concern now I have about the mileage and after service. I saw many owner's in multiple FB groups, commenting about a very low mileage i.e., around 10 kmpl only, which scared me a little bit."
Source

"Took delivery of an XM variant, petrol, manual transmission Nexon last week which joined the family garage. The car came in a rather lucid shade of orange!

- Fuel efficiency for the first 500 odd kms driven entirely within Kolkata city,AC on - CITY mode 90% and balance SPORT mode, with a couple of airport runs have been reading at 10.2kmpl . Measured on s tankfull to tankfull basis at auto cut-off."
Source

"I have a petrol XZ+, and the first service is scheduled on this Saturday, Sept. 21. Currently getting a city mileage of 9.3 kmpl, T2T, in Kolkata, in City mode (100%)"
Source


"I'm a current owner in Delhi NCR of -
2013 EcoSport P AT (40k Kms) &,
2018 Nexon XMA Petrol (4k Kms)

Generally, EcoSport gives 8-10 kmpl depending on the conditions. Nexon is giving 11-13 kmpl depending on the conditions. Both for city usage."
Source

"I have been driving XZA+ (P) variant for the last one year. The mileage in the initial one or two months was dismal. I was getting only 5-6 kmpl in city traffic with temperature set to 24°C at all times. After the first service, it rose marginally to 8-9kmpl at most.
Presently, I have changed my driving style and now I'm getting around 11kmpl in the city.
The mileage on the highways hovers around 14-15kmpl at speeds of 80kmph."
Source

Coming to diesels - Seriously! Not able to achieve 20kmpl even on a WRV? I have no comments on your driving style FE figures as I'm yet to see the same.

But - my personal best on my rather heavy car without a 6th gear is 23kmpl (Pictures and data in my ownership report). Don't take my word for it though. Here's one from Arun Josie's log - It is possible to achieve more than 20 kmpl, even on a Jeep Compass 4*4. Maruti diesels achieve upwards of 25kmpl. (Source - One among many many more you can find). 18 is easy at highway cruising speeds - especially on these modern cars with cruise control.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

In summary you don't know what the govt. will announce and when it will announce against diesel. Come 2023, with WLTP emission testing, they might even say BS6 cars need to be upgraded at owner cost and diesel will be sold to private vehicles with additional taxes. What then? There's no peace of mind for a buyer or a manufacturer in selling diesels.

What then? People who want diesels will rush to buy them before 2023. Same as many who rushed ahead with a diesel deal before BS6 kicked in, when so many predictions were there back then as well - many of whom with borderline usage requirements that could have adjusted with a petrol as well. Buyers now would be less bother what additional taxes would come in 2023.

Except for Maruti Suzuki, only brands with less commitment to the Indian market - like VW Group, Renault/ Nissan etc have abandoned diesels. Hyundai - Kia, Honda, TATA, Mahindra, Ford, Jeep, MG - All of them sell BS6 diesels successfully. Not sure whether they do it with or without peace of mind!

Thats a lot of 'ifs' in one sentence though! Even if all those conditions were true, isn't it too early to assume no one will find a solution? Maruti predicted 1.5 lakhs price difference in the BS6 era and Hyundai/ Ford solved the BS6 equation for 17k. You might call it cheating with use of just LNT, but the point is - companies find new ways to overcome rules and get one up on the other.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

VW and Maruti might be the clever one here and Hyundai/Kia being cheeky to maximise profits in short term by pushing diesels.

When VW/Skoda launch their offerings, they won't have a diesel but will try to cover the diesel buyers with the 1.0L TSI engine and keep the performance oriented buyers to the 1.5L TSI covering both bases. 1.0L TSI could be cheaper than the 1.5L CRDI Kia/Hyundai and tempt buyers towards it.

It is an even bigger gamble that MAruti have taken. VW/Skoda have taken a gamble albeit a safe one. .

Hope VW has similar confidence and wish them the best that their 'safe gamble' plays off. Because their break-or-make products are coming out in 2021 and two years (before 'there's no peace of mind for a buyer or a manufacturer in selling diesels') may be enough for the market to judge products as success or failure.

[volkman10]

Volkswagen has no plans to launch electric vehicles in India.

-Lack of infrastructure, low price point are major reasons

-Only 3,400 electric passenger vehicles were sold in India in FY20, 6% less than the previous year

The infrastructure support for EVs in India is not fully developed. The market at this stage cannot accept the price point of vehicles such as the ID.4 (based on the MEB platform). We don’t plan to launch the MEB in India anytime soon. Having said that, we keep evaluating markets such as India and the VW brand will come to the market at the appropriate time

- VW is putting its entire focus on the India 2.0 Project


Link

[volkman10]

Change of guard in VW India operations:

Volkswagen India’s Steffen Knapp headed for Europe, Ashish Gupta to take charge .

Knapp was appointed to the role in June 2017. Ashish Gupta, currently Head of Sales Operations, Volkswagen Passenger Cars, will take over Knapp’s role.


Link

[subraiyr]

I am not sure if there is a thread for Taigun yet. So posting it here. Mods, please do the needful if there needs to be a change

Chanced upon the VW website today and saw the Taigun page up and running. Not much information barring basic specs and a form for registering your interest. Given this, i am yet to see any testing spyshots come up.

I am looking to replace/add to my Storme and going the European route. Awaiting the Skoda Vision IN new model (kosmiq, kliq whatever it be) and the Taigun to launch to decide

https://www.volkswagen.co.in/en/models/taigun.html

[deetjohn]

Here is an easier path for VW India to improve the volume.

Equip the lower variants of the Polo and Vento with TSI + AT. I don't like the idea of spending 11ish lakhs on a 10 year old car no matter how good the power train is or how bad the competition fares. But I am excited about owning a TSI AT in Trendline or Comfortline guise.

It will be a safe car for the city with some thrills. And the owners can do it up to their liking with some official accessories - that's an enjoyable engagement for customers while the dealers get to make some money. One request will be for VW to show it's global cred as a manufacturer and not drop that rear wash wipe in any variant for safety. That's my pet peeve and it really cannot be retrofitted.

I think they should also drop the 1L MPI engine and go on an all out attack with the TSI. That engine deserves to sell more and VW will get the economies of scale. Essentially do what they did with the 1.5 TDI. The GT TSI will eventually die just like the GT TDI, but VW can get a lot of volume and new customers with this move. Over to you VW!

[Godzilla]

VW needs to learn the Korean secret called “Nunchi” reading the room called India.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www.w...is-nunchi/amp/

They need to emulate the successful Koreans who have proved it.

• Launch new cars/ updates every 3-6 months.
• Top trim should be overpriced and should have all and some addl. features in the segment so the car wins in all media comparisons. But let most people buy cheaper lower variants. People can boast they bought the Seltos but in reality the lower trims will lack even basic hatchback features.
• Learn the art of product launch: Product launch is an art in itself. From inviting favourable media to delaying the launch of top trim and automatic together so that most media would have already published that top variants cost x lakhs but after couple of months you will have GTX plus with automatic couple of lakhs extra.
• Be super customer centric. Hyundai listens to customers. This is not a good thing sometimes which results in cars which are super light for mileage, handles poorly due to soft suspension and light steering, no esp as customers prefer ass chillers Indians value their status/cool image more than safety, so deliver them an unsafe contraption so that they can kill themselves.
• Find the cheapest low quality suppliers for brakes as no one will cover that in media, and Blame ABS if it fails so most customers will think it is some sort of a niche feature in Hyundai cars but give the cars Bose speakers ofcourse.
• Feed the media some biscuits and vehemently ban who are honest for your car launches.
• Use cool ads and marketing. TV ads for elders and social media for the young. Indians will buy even poison if the ads are cool, as most lack critical thinking.
• Obviously don’t focus on safety and great handling. You will be chucked out like Ford.
  
  Hyundai definitely has read Indians and their cultures better than other manufacturers. To give them credit they have most no. of engine options. They have worked hard for their success. But unfortunately there are downsides to this. Hyundai should definitely do crash tests and share results, share how their cars Kerb weight openly, fix their crap brakes, provide esp on most variants. Which I believe is not likely to happen as they reading the room. Unless the room (Indian customer) changes Hyundai will not change.

[BZ25]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

VW needs to learn the Korean secret called “Nunchi”
reading the room called India.

Lately this forum has been incessantly bashing the Koreans. I agree that the brake failure reports is not comforting news, but apart from that the Koreans have done everything else well. Even the poor ride and handling of their products is gone. Now they're actually better than the Japanese when it comes to high speed stability.

And as for the lack of NCAP results for their cars, even the manufacturers acclaimed by members of this esteemed forum such as Ford, Nissan and Renault haven't gotten their offerings tested. There are widespread reports of Ford and Nissan refusing to acknowledge the existence of defects in their DCT & CVT transmissions respectively. Renault has been caught for varying the size of the airbags in the Duster, depending upon the market, and Ford has been accused of removing crumple zones from the Indian spec Endeavour to cut costs.

The Koreans have succeeded in capturing their market, due to their intent, something which most other manufacturers have lacked. Their success has probably motivated rivals such as VW and Nissan, who were sleeping for so long, to start developing competitive products. If anything, they've made the Indian market much more competitive.

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by BZ25

Lately this forum has been incessantly bashing the Koreans. I agree that the brake failure reports is not comforting news, but

I agree partly. I feel this bashing is a necessary one. This is the critical feedback for a manufacturer. This is also part of the correction process. There is no other media who can do this other than TBHP. I am glad that we have a thread talking about Hyundai quality lapses and brake issues. We should of-course do the same for any other manufacturer who take us for a ride.

I want Hyundai to be successful and deliver safer cars for my country. The more we talk about this the faster Hyundai will change, what is your choice?

I will stop here as this thread is related to VW but jokes aside VW can certainly learn from Hyundai which is not off-topic.

[volkman10]

Details of the New Vento (Virtus?) revealed:

- While the Taigun be launched following the Skoda's Vision IN SUV, the next gen Vento will precede the New Rapid.

- Expect a 2021 festive season launch.

- Both the Sedans will get the 1.0L TSI engine only while the SUV's also get the optional 1.5 TSI engine.

- The Turbo petrol will also come in 6-speed manual and 6-speed torque convertor automatic options

Link

[deetjohn]

Great! It will be great if VAG can equip the sedans too with the 1.5 TSI engine + AT box. I am quite sure there are some who would like to take home a sedan or hatchback even today - not everyone is sold on traveling a few inches higher on the road while sacrificing both handling & ride by paying a premium.

1.0 L turbo petrol is the new norm across segments now whereas the 1.5 TSI can surely take the game forward for VAG!

Sure, adding that 1.5 will surely take the prices of these C segment sedans to old Laura levels, but that's the part of the world we live in I guess!

[F150]

Can VW not meet the BS6 emission standards for their diesels or 1.2 TSI ?
1 litre TSI seems like a down grade, doesn't sound very exciting.

[Venkatesh]

Volkswagen India said it has appointed Vishal Bhat as the head of after-sales service from January 1.



Bhat is currently serving as head of corporate and pre-owned car sales at Volkswagen, the company said in a release.

He would be taking over the responsibility from P.Ravichandran, who is now responsible for the dealer development business.

As we plan for our biggest launch of 2021 with the Volkswagen Taigun, our core focus is to ensure enhanced customer experience and value proposition for the customers. With Vishal's vast experience and understanding of customers, we strongly believe he will bring-in new growth avenues in our service operations," Ashish Gupta, brand head, Volkswagen Passenger Cars India.

Source

[volkman10]

Volkswagen India SUVW Strategy Explained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCqw...ature=youtu.be