[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Ph03nix

That's not the tax concession I am talking about. I know the sub 4m rule. If I am not wrong, engines greater than 1.6 liter attract 27% excise duty whereas engines below 1.6 liters attract 24%. This is for cars greater than 4m in length.

But the displacement of the engine will be 15xx CC. Hence, it will be classified as less than 1.6L itself. Same for my SX4. The engine capacity is 1.6L on paper which is exactly 1586cc. Hence, it will slip under that bracket. So the petrol doesnt attract extra excise duty under the engine size criteria.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by audioholic

But the displacement of the engine will be 15xx CC. Hence, it will be classified as less than 1.6L itself. Same for my SX4. The engine capacity is 1.6L on paper which is exactly 1586cc. Hence, it will slip under that bracket. So the petrol doesnt attract extra excise duty under the engine size criteria.

Criteria is 1500cc for both petrol and diesel for the 24% vs 27% bracket.

Rules are as follows:

Engine capacity >1500cc
For both Petrol and Diesel: If ground clearance > 170mm and body type = SUV, then 30%, else 27%

Engine capacity <1500cc
For Diesel: If length < 4m, then 12%, else 24%
For Petrol: If length < 4m AND engine <1200cc , then 12%, else 24%

[i74js]

Someone in Ford India is playing hard and in a fashion wherein significant gains to the company are not expected even after the product has been repositioned. The off market difference / premium on diesel is uncalled for when the company wants to push a specific product. At present the market is biased for diesel motors and thus there should have been a justification as to why this gap is about 1.5 lacs between diesel and petrol.

Present issues:

- Its a dated product in terms of engine as well as body shell design. The "Fiesta" even as name has been given to the new model, thus this product is 2 generations old
- Present owners (barring the few who liked the driving dynamics of Ford) are not happy with Ford's petrol motor due to its poor milage
- The quality of classic has gone down and thus it does not bring smile on the face of owner (I have seen one of my friends being critical about it)
- The behaviour of Ford and its dealers has changed post launch of Ecosport and is not taken well by buyers

Let's wait and watch the monthly sales figure of classic for next couple of months to see if any major change happens.

Cheers

[Abhi_abarth]

Here are the on-road prices in Hyderabad for the diesel variants :

Lxi - 7.8 Lakhs

Cxi - 8.37 Lakhs

Titanium - 9.22 lakhs

Free insurance and exchange bonus available on 2013 models. I am sure the same discounts will be passed on to the 2014 models as well considering the poor sales.

Price source: Mody ford, Begumpet, Hyderabad.

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by i74js

Present issues:


- Present owners (barring the few who liked the driving dynamics of Ford) are not happy with Ford's petrol motor due to its poor milage

Who are they, may I ask? Most comments, unfortunately, come from non-owners. There are several ownership threads on this forum that say that the FE in city ranges from 10 to 12, which is great for a 1.6 engine. I get the same figures from my 1 liter WagonR, and a lot more than my neighbour who owns an automatic I10.

And the petrol motor has a far better grunt than all cars under 10 lacs, other than the Linea TJet.

The reason why sales are dwindling is due to the model being around for 8 years and the rear seat being comparatively cramped. By paying around 2 lakhs more, one can get a Honda City that offers a lot more on space.

[pramodpk]

Originally Posted by i74js

- Present owners (barring the few who liked the driving dynamics of Ford) are not happy with Ford's petrol motor due to its poor milage

I am happy owner of a petrol Fiesta. I get 14 - 15 KM/L on highway with AC when driven between 100 - 130 KM/H. I don't think this is bad for a 1.6 L engine. My 800 CC Alto if driven in the same speed will not give more than 16 KM/H.

Originally Posted by vnabhi

Who are they, may I ask? Most comments, unfortunately, come from non-owners.

+1

[Torque123]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

Who are they, may I ask? Most comments, unfortunately, come from non-owners. There are several ownership threads on this forum that say that the FE in city ranges from 10 to 12, which is great for a 1.6 engine. I get the same figures from my 1 liter WagonR, and a lot more than my neighbour who owns an automatic I10.

And the petrol motor has a far better grunt than all cars under 10 lacs, other than the Linea TJet. .

+1 to what vnabhi mentioned.

I have been owning and driving this beauty now for 6 years with 61K kilometers on the odo. I get a mileage of 11 in city and 13 on highways (all with AC on 50% of the time). I think expecting for more mileage than this from a 1.6 petrol is unrealistic.

My previous car (swift -2006) gave a mileage of 13 in city and 16 on highways. Not to forget that it was a 1.3 liter engine.

In my books, if i compare this car with the current set of cars in the same segment then the only draw back is the back bench and few gadgets (auto AC, steering mounted controls etc).

I cannot say am missing out on the gadgets because the time when i got this car all other cars in this segment had more or less the same features. As for the back bench, it does not matter to me because its me who is always in the driver's seat .

The only other gripe (financially) i have with Ford cars is that they discount their cars heavily after a couple of years of launch. This affects the resale value in the used car market and irriates a lot of Ford car owners (including me).

[IshaanIan]

The Fiesta 1.6's mileage isn't anything to be proud about but it certainly isn't bad.

However it is true that non-enthusiasts think it is bad. Unfortunately in India, when someone spends more the 7 lakhs, the preferred fuel is Diesel and these idiots tend to loose touch of reality and get shocked when they hear what mileage a large-ish petrol motor offers.

I myself am proud about being able to get 11 with ac in the city and 13-14 with ac on the highway with speeds between 100-160 from my Kizashi but when the driver of a Superb diesel heard that, he thought I was crazy.

[i74js]

[quote=vnabhi;3352062]Who are they, may I ask? Most comments, unfortunately, come from non-owners. QUOTE]


I beg to differ, agreed that I do not own classic, but my first car was Ford Escort purchased in 1997 when Ford entered in Indian market with M & M.
I understand Ford DNA and freedom of sharing observations in the forum. More so, I have driven classic for few days, though am not sure if only owners are allowed to share observations.

Sales figures have a lot to say and has no bearing if a product is 8 months or 8 year old. Ford is not transparent towards Indian customers and their policies for India say a lot on how they are going about business.

Classic is a dud for past few years and new Fiesta is dud from the very begining and the one that I own (till date) Escort was also a dud.

Good day !

[zenren]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I myself am proud about being able to get 11 with ac in the city and 13-14 with ac on the highway with speeds between 100-160 from my Kizashi

I don't think I'll be able to do much better with my Swift petrol 1.3 either. 12-13 in city and 15-17 in highway is pretty much what I get. A lot of this ARAI figures are unrealistic in any Indian city, even for the smaller cars.

Here are some reasonable numbers (purely my perspective) for the city conditions:
0.6L : 19-20
0.8L : 17-18
1.0L : 15-16
1.2L : 13-14
1.3L : 12-13
1.4L : 11-12
1.6L : 10-11

Anything better means the manufacturer has done a good job on the FE front.

[vnabhi]

[quote=i74js;3352220]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

Who are they, may I ask? Most comments, unfortunately, come from non-owners. QUOTE]


I beg to differ, agreed that I do not own classic, but my first car was Ford Escort purchased in 1997 when Ford entered in Indian market with M & M.
I understand Ford DNA and freedom of sharing observations in the forum. More so, I have driven classic for few days, though am not sure if only owners are allowed to share observations.

We are digressing now. My comments were in reaction to your post on poor FE of the petrol Fiesta.

Originally Posted by zenren

I don't think I'll be able to do much better with my Swift petrol 1.3 either. 12-13 in city and 15-17 in highway is pretty much what I get. A lot of this ARAI figures are unrealistic in any Indian city, even for the smaller cars.

Here are some reasonable numbers (purely my perspective) for the city conditions:
0.6L : 19-20
0.8L : 17-18
1.0L : 15-16
1.2L : 13-14
1.3L : 12-13
1.4L : 11-12
1.6L : 10-11

Anything better means the manufacturer has done a good job on the FE front.

I don't think this works out in real life. My 1.0 L WagonR gives only 11 to 13 kmpl in city. This is consistent for the past 11 years that it is being used in Hyderabad.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

I don't think this works out in real life. My 1.0 L WagonR gives only 11 to 13 kmpl in city. This is consistent for the past 11 years that it is being used in Hyderabad.

For anyone who thinks a 1.6L petrol engine should give more than 10-11 kmpl in city conditions, isn't it double standards if they don't expect at least 15-16 from a 1L engine?

BTW, I wouldn't bring a Wagon R into a fuel efficiency contest as a benchmark. Its design is probably among the least aerodynamic of the lot and is bound to be thirsty!

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by zenren

For anyone who thinks a 1.6L petrol engine should give more than 10-11 kmpl in city conditions, isn't it double standards if they don't expect at least 15-16 from a 1L engine?

Not sure what you mean, but FE is not always proportionate to the size of the engine. That is what I was trying to say.

I agree that a Waggie is terrible on the aerodynamics front, but what other 1 liter engine do you have in mind?

By the way, the new generation 3-cylinder Waggie does give around 13 to 15 in city, per reports on this forum.

But hey, we are digressing from the topic.

[IshaanIan]

I know, but I have found that on highways, larger motors of the same generation, seem to give more mileage probably since their engines are far more relaxed at highway speeds.

Anyway, could someone please shed some more light on what everyone means when they say that the quality of the Fiesta has been lost over the years in transition to its Classic moniker? Is it interior-wise or exterior-wise (or both)? Has the plastic quality itself gone down (in what manner)? Or has the build, fit and finish levels gone down?

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Anyway, could someone please shed some more light on what everyone means when they say that the quality of the Fiesta has been lost over the years in transition to its Classic moniker? Is it interior-wise or exterior-wise (or both)? Has the plastic quality itself gone down (in what manner)? Or has the build, fit and finish levels gone down?

I believe that the dashboard plastics are now of the Figo quality and texture, and are not as premium as it was about 4 years ago.

I've also heard (though not had it confirmed) that the rear suspension of the Classic is now shared with the Figo, while the earlier one was a different one. I'm not sure about the front suspension. Steering is unchanged.