[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

All that was expected was to plonk the T-JEt engine from Linea to Punto and improve driveability of the MJD. Merely playing with first gear/final drive is silly.

A T-JET Punto makes way more sense than a Linea T-JET.

Yep, esp. when they provide 4 engine options

I am not saying the T-Jet should be the fifth, but they could have easily gotten rid of either of the petrol engines.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Even if Fiat had launched Punto Tjet, how many would buy? Just a handful of enthusiasts...
The Linea sales (both Tjet & MJD) put together was only 154 in June, so what is the guarantee that Punto Tjet will sell like hot cakes?
It won't happen & Fiat knows that and hence didn't bother to invest in plonking the Tjet onto Punto...
And, nowadays diesel variants are selling more than petrol, and the 90hp Punto would be good enough for the 'enthusiasts'.

No finney. Look at the demand for the Polo GT TSI over the Vento GT TSI. The hatch is more popular at 10L on road!

The 90HP MJD is surely not good enough for enthusiasts. Correct me if I am wrong but I have seen Vbox figures from car magazine in which 0-100 is quicker in Swift 75PS vs Punto 90HP. Not able to find the same now.

And I really don't think it needs any investment to plonk the T-JET into the Punto. The Linea has it and when Punto is based on Linea and both can accommodate MJD, they can obviously take T-JET.

And I'm not talking 1000 cars. Do like VW. They had only like 50 cars to start with and kept increasing.

50 more cars is no bad thing especially when you have the engine already in sedan version. May as well add in hatch as well. It's like Toyota, they had the Etios 1.5 and they got the Liva 1.5 TRD.

These are simple things which won't make a big difference but atleast show that the manufacturer is listening and trying. It's the MBA term of grabbing the low hanging fruit which is easier to do.

Punto T-JET vs Polo GT TSI vs Liva 1.5 TRD. It's easy to think which one an enthusiast will opt for. The Punto T-JET is manual with a fantastic engine that is probably the only one that can keep up with the Polo GT TSI.

[blacksport]

Originally Posted by finneyp

The Linea sales (both Tjet & MJD) put together was only 154 in June, so what is the guarantee that Punto Tjet will sell like hot cakes?

No guarantee. It might sell, or it might not. But it doesn't sell with the current set of engines either. So why not try something new than persist with the formula that has been proven not to work? And it won't cost them anything.

[Diesel_convert]

The hope for the fiat brand is to cater to enthusiasts, who will then enthusiastically preach to everyone they know how great the car is!

Karthikk's TJet+Punto thread has 300,000 views!

VW has been very clever introducing the GT twins, car talk in forums and magazines is dominated by a car that sells in the few hundreds a month. How else do you get publicity like that?
Cars are aspirational products, if you want VFM travel by bus / taxi its cheaper.

The halo model has been proven to work in most markets, it should work in ours as well.

The 116i owner knows in his head that the chaps who engineered the M3 also worked on his car! BMW may not make money on the M3, but they can use it to sell bumper kits at exorbitant prices .


If not punto T-jet, an upgraded Linea T-jet with more power would also do. There is a huge gap between 10L for the GT TSI to the Octavia TSI at 24L.
But it needs to clearly beat the GT TSI/TDI no questions asked.

They have all the ingredients to get people talking about fiat again. Lets see if they take the opportunity.

[hothatchaway]

one practical and perhaps a little noob question since one is debating so much, if the engine being a slouch is the biggest deterrent for a punto to be considered an enthusiast's choice, how about the 90HP punto sport with a RD kit? Even after some additional dough for the mod, you still have some change left over if you bought this over the Polo GT TDI and Fiat enthusiasts still get to buy a punto for whatever inexplicable reason they want to (!)

Of course it would still get smoked by the GT TSI but hey, won't you get close or even beat the TDI?

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by gsurya

The first review I have read on the Punto Evo 1.4 Petrol. As predicted, disappointing for enthusiasts, just adequate.

Thank you gsurya for sharing this article.

What I am really shocked about is the Kerb weight of Punto Evo. In an era when most of the manufacturers are implementing lighter & stiffer chassis, how have Fiat manage to Pull this off on a Petrol engine ??

Punto 2009-14 - 1.4 Emotion - Kerb Weight - 1115kg

Punto Evo - 1.4 Emotion - Kerb Weight - 1,154 kg

Ironically, the Kerb Weight of the Polo GT TDI with 1.6l Diesel engine is 1156kg !!

[Diesel_convert]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

Of course it would still get smoked by the GT TSI but hey, won't you get close or even beat the TDI?

I personally don't think it is close at all. The TDI does a 10 second run 0-100 and is quicker than most cars below 20L.

http://www.motoringworld.net/cars/reviews/gt-going

I don't think even a remapped Punto Sport keeps up.

[gsurya]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

What I am really shocked about is the Kerb weight of Punto Evo. In an era when most of the manufacturers are implementing lighter & stiffer chassis, how have Fiat manage to Pull this off on a Petrol engine ??

Punto 2009-14 - 1.4 Emotion - Kerb Weight - 1115kg

Punto Evo - 1.4 Emotion - Kerb Weight - 1,154 kg

Ironically, the Kerb Weight of the Polo GT TDI with 1.6l Diesel engine is 1156kg !!

The FIRE 1.2 / 1.4 Petrol engines on the Punto were first designed in 1985 by Fiat, its the same design that was seen first here on the Uno & continues now.

There are newer versions of this engine available in Europe, but they havent made it to India. The 1.4 TJet is a modern engine, but its not 'lighter'.

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

Of course it would still get smoked by the GT TSI but hey, won't you get close or even beat the TDI?

Originally Posted by Diesel_convert

I personally don't think it is close at all. The TDI does a 10 second run 0-100 and is quicker than most cars below 20L.

I don't think even a remapped Punto Sport keeps up.

I have driven the regular 90 HP Punto and it quite frankly "Feels" slower than I10 Grand CRDI. However, I have not driven a 'Remapped' 90HP sport, which are quite a few on our TBHP forum.

But hothatchaway, as an owner of GT TDI, I agree completely with Diesel_convert. I think GT TDI is Scarily Fast !!

Engine, Gearbox, Dynamics are all in place for the GT but the Stopping power could have been better. If the point is just about acceleration, trust me bro, only a Punto Evo T-jet can match/beat a GT TDI in its OEM avatar.

We Petrol Heads would have had the time of our lives had Punto EVO come with either a T-jet or 1.5 MJD.

Hot Hatch Guaranteed!!

Originally Posted by gsurya

The FIRE 1.2 / 1.4 Petrol engines on the Punto were first designed in 1985 by Fiat, its the same design that was seen first here on the Uno & continues now.

Another example of 'Lack of Commitment' or Seriousness towards Indian Market by Fiat.

As they say, 'Adapt or Perish' !!

[scofield]

Just to get some real time scenarios in the eye of the people, I drive a 90HP (80K done) which has a RD box and will share a very practical expereince, I have had while driving along fellow bhpians.

The GT TDI,TSI and the Vento Diesel start of quickly on the road and make it to a ton faster but boy when 90hp in motion with a RD chip is pressed in P2 mode, its a different beast and is as fast as the VWs we are talking and due to the handling prowess of the Punto I have been able to get ahead of VWs as well.

So lets not be so bully about the engines we are getting and praise the GTs everytime, they are amazing cars no one can deny but 90HP with a chip will give them a run for their money very very easily.

Wish Fiat had a better gear box in the new car with a 1.6 MJD in it - this would have been sure shot winner - a better overall package then the VW Gts

Swift is like a tortoise in this comparison !! Period !!

[Vid6639]

I don't get it. If a Punto 90HP doesn't have great performance, and you add a RD box or remap and make it quick and match the Polo 1.6 GT TDI. Imagine getting a Polo and adding a RD box or remap to the GT TDI. What happens to the Punto then? At the wheels, it is possible to get 140BHP from a Vento TDI. Imagine a Polo with 140 horses

Either compare stock to stock or compare remap to remap.

Don't see the logic in comparing a remap Punto and saying it comes close to stock Polo.

[asdon]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Either compare stock to stock or compare remap to remap.

Don't see the logic in comparing a remap Punto and saying it comes close to stock Polo.

No Vid, then you have to look at the price point as well, a 90HP punto with remap will still cost less than GTs, I guess thats the point to be considered. Else your point is correct.

[linuxmanju]

Originally Posted by asdon

a 90HP punto with remap will still cost less than GTs, I guess thats the point to be considered. Else your point is correct.

Just a thought mate, don't get me wrong.

At a slightly higher cost, you will also get a) Better fit and finish b) better gearbox c) you are not running something which could potentially void your company warranty.

[asdon]

Originally Posted by linuxmanju

Just a thought mate, don't get me wrong.

At a slightly higher cost, you will also get a) Better fit and finish b) better gearbox c) you are not running something which could potentially void your company warranty.

Agreed, but what cost difference? if one can tell.

Regarding warranty, RD box is a plug & play thing so while giving it for service, just remove it.

And I may be wrong but is there any thing called free service at VW? At least Fiat has it till 45000km.

[sourav21]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

So if Linea T-Jet has brought any sales in its segment, how would Punto do it given the buyers of hatchback are more concerned about economy than a sedan buyer?

We are talking about enthusiasts here and not mass market. The very fact that there is a T-Jet in FIAT portfolio means they are targeting the enthusiast market. Now in comparison to Punto T-Jet, the Linea T-Jet is a classic case of paying more for less. Pay more for about 100 odd kilos more. Pay more for lesser power to weight ratio.

Originally Posted by finneyp

For those desperate for Punto Tjet, why don't you consider Linea Tjet? Go for the mid-variant Dynamic if there is any budget constraint... It is a good buy!

Budget may not be always the deciding factor. For me, it is size. I don't want to deal with the cumbersome size of a sedan in cities. Infact, sedans don't make sense for me at all. If I wanted a big car, I would buy an SUV. In any case, Punto is still a big car, but for the T-Jet, I can make that much compromise on size.

If you are looking only for hatch, you have a good option - Polo

Yes, that is on my radar. But I am not keen on an autobox. I might still end up buying it just for it's brilliant engine.

Even if Fiat had launched Punto Tjet, how many would buy? Just a handful of enthusiasts...
The Linea sales (both Tjet & MJD) put together was only 154 in June, so what is the guarantee that Punto Tjet will sell like hot cakes? It won't happen & Fiat knows that and hence didn't bother to invest in plonking the Tjet onto Punto...

Even otherwise, how many do they manage to sell ... constantly playing a game of cat and mouse with HM and Skoda for the last three places. At least they can gather the last few enthusiasts left and assure themselves of the third slot.

And, nowadays diesel variants are selling more than petrol, and the 90hp Punto would be good enough for the 'enthusiasts'.

Take it from me, an owner of a Punto 90HP, for the last three years - this is really not the car you want to buy if you are an enthusiast.