[linuxmanju]

Just a thought, its obvious that Fiat India can not bring the technologies and make an engine overnight, I am sure they may have some near future plans for that. But wonder how difficult is it to change the tune of the engine from the current sedate tune and make it a bit more aggressive ( I read in this forum that, 1.3 Mjd tuned by tuners can do wonders and can clock close to 11.5 seconds to a hundred. ) and change the first and second gear cog for outright performance ?, no I am not asking for the entire transmission change but a couple of cogs tweaked.

If both above were done, would it not make it a a lot better hatch to drive ?. I am sure, with those changes if the car could do 0-100 even in and around 13.xx seconds, it would have made a huge success at least in media reviews if not set the sales chart on fire, wouldn't it?.

[blacksport]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

If you allow me then I would like to invite some facts, some test results, some data to prove that the Punto handles better than all others.

How do you measure handling in an objective way? What is the unit of handling? mm per radians?

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

The same engine in Swift, Sail, Dzire is not a weakness but it is a weakness in a Fiat?


You really need to decide if it is the brand or the engine?

But the above statements are proof that you do not understand what I say. Either, you don't read my post fully, or I am not able to get the message out clearly with my words. Either way, I will get out after this clarification.

The engines are good enough for the masses, but not enough for enthusiasts.

Masses wouldn't buy a FIAT because of the badge.

For the enthusiasts what was lacking is the engine, and that has not been addressed by FIAT.

So they are satisfying neither of the groups. This one is not going to sell. Sadly.

I am not a FIAT basher. I am still a fan boy, who became one after owning a Palio 1.6 for four years. Sadly FIAT does not make cars like that anymore.

[SUPERSPORT]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

If you allow me then I would like to invite some facts, some test results, some data to prove that the Punto handles better than all others.

As far as there is no fact-full data is posted in favor of such comments to prove the Punto a winner in handling/riding department, I would consider such comment as plain insult of other cars.

You don't need facts and figures always to know which car has better ride & handling. Just drive them. Again facts and figures may not represent a true picture either. Verna is powerful than the Vento on paper but we know how different they are in real life. I switch between Linea & Polo as my daily drive and there is a significant difference in ride,handling and braking between these cars. To give you an example I never slow down my Linea on approaching a free curve and I actually love accelerating on the corners. Linea/Punto sticks to the road and there is grip,grip and more grip. I would be nervous doing the same on my Polo. Polo gives a floating feel as speed increases. But its still better than many other hatches on sale here. Better handling is always a big plus in an emergency situation along with the additional enjoyment. Again on ride quality, Polo has good ride but not as good as Punto. Polo has more vertical movement and gives you a very significant THUD on larger bumps and potholes. Next on braking department, puntos brake pedal is perfectly calibrated compared to the Polo and you also get some feedback from the brake pedal. Even though the stopping power is more in the Punto, passengers are not thrown forward under harsh braking but thats not the case with the Polo. Also ABS kicks in perfectly on my Linea compared to the Polo. Infact I as a Polo owner wouldnt actually agree with the Teambhp review of the polo saying its got excellent brakes. I have made the above statements from my 3 years with the Polo and 5 years with the Linea so you may not find these anywhere else. And despite all these shortcomings I will wholeheartedly agree with you about the fact the new Polo can smoke the Punto with its 1.5 TDI and brilliant gearbox.

[lapis_lazuli]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

As far as there is no fact-full data is posted in favor of such comments to prove the Punto a winner in handling/riding department, I would consider such comment as plain insult of other cars.

Since you are so keen on data, let me post a small observation. This summer, me and bhpian Biraj, we thought, lets check out how much torque and power we really need. Luckily we live in an area, where we have stretches of clear straight road, with the occassional stray dog willing to wag his tail.

So, off goes the cover, plonk goes the ELM 327 OBD scanner, and the T jet is all set to run. We turn on the app on the SAMSUNG Galaxy tab, and I am in the passenger seat, noting down really "kitna de rahi hai" when actually tested. Biraj revved it like crazy and we hit 100 in no time...the maximum power recorded was ~ 65bhp and maximum torque required was around 120Nm. Figures I think are 115BHP and 205Nm, published for the TJet 2011.

I am not saying this is the most conclusive of all tests: even the dino run is not! (Yes, dino gets tired )

Yes, we did not go beyond the ton, but then in any case we would have been beyond the peak torque band anyways.

A similar result was posted in another forum on the 90HP, and the fellow was NOT able to record even 80HP or anything more than 150-160Nm of torque. He did an intentional run on the highway, just like we did.

IMHO, this does give a fair idea of what is "practically" needed even in worst case sprints. I am sure, other cars would do similar: in practice we would hardly require what is published, as maximum achievable.

{Do I even make sense ?}

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli

{Do I even make sense ?}

LOL. Not really. You are comparing a random BHP number thrown out from an app which tries to guess BHP.

What was mentioned earlier was actual Dyno tested BHP figures i.e. by actually running the car on a dyno.

[gsurya]

The first review I have read on the Punto Evo 1.4 Petrol. As predicted, disappointing for enthusiasts, just adequate.

http://indianautosblog.com/2014/08/f...ampaign=buffer

[Rubbertramps]

Originally Posted by blacksport

The engines are good enough for the masses, but not enough for enthusiasts.

Masses wouldn't buy a FIAT because of the badge.

For the enthusiasts what was lacking is the engine, and that has not been addressed by FIAT.

If you are aiming at the masses, i would say the punto will not sell because of the following factors.
1. Low pickup.
2. Hydraulic steering which they address as tight steering. EPS is always favored by the masses.
3. Mileage which is copyrighted by Maruti !
4. After which comes the badge or after sales experience.

How many members of the masses take the car to the highway for a test drive. Or how many members of the masses tried to corner the car with good speeds. How many members of the masses know about the 195 R15 rubber(Stock). Or for that matter how many know about the ground clearance that is offered.

I already quoted your post for the badge claim that you do some time back. Please don't generalize that masses will not buy a FIAT for a badge. They might not buy a punto for its badge. A right product will mask the badge as it did in history.

And it is not the other way round either with badge helping the car sell. Examples include SX4, Fiesta(Old), A-star, Kizashi.

[nikhil0405]

Originally Posted by Rubbertramps

I already quoted your post for the badge claim that you do some time back. Please don't generalize that masses will not buy a FIAT for a badge. They might not buy a punto for its badge. A right product will mask the badge as it did in history.

And it is not the other way round either with badge helping the car sell. Examples include SX4, Fiesta(Old), A-star, Kizashi.

The badge does matter. Atleast in India it does. Most car buyers in India (who are not aware of Team-BHP of course) tend to go with opinions of relatives/neighbours etc when going for a new car. Maruti cars are perceived to be low maintainence (it might be true to a certain extent) and ready availability of spares and service centers.
Fiat needs to increase its service centers all over India first rather than bringing in new cars. In the current scenario, not much will change wrt sales.

[bejoy]

"Fiat India Launches the 2014 Punto Evo at an Introductory Price of Rs. 4.55 Lakh" read NDTV article. What follows? Discounts!?

On whether the masses would pick up this car, well it has to be seen. I know of many folks, regular non-enthusiastic type, picked up Punto over a year back when situation was a little different - Huge discounts given by Fiat, high difference between petrol and diesel prices and long waiting period for Maruti diesels.

Fiat made a very good attempt in ramping up marketing, including a very impressive website. Couldn't resist nit-picking some specs though, like "Mirrors that Blink with ORVMs Technology" and "Hardworking Front Wipers"

[DCEite]

Another market dud in the making.

Sorry, but the engine choices don't do any justice to the much hyped chassis and suspension. Needs to get more powerful (or rather better calibrated) engines if it has to leave its mark.

[Rubbertramps]

Originally Posted by nikhil0405

The badge does matter. Atleast in India it does. Most car buyers in India (who are not aware of Team-BHP of course) tend to go with opinions of relatives/neighbours etc when going for a new car. Maruti cars are perceived to be low maintainence (it might be true to a certain extent) and ready availability of spares and service centers.
Fiat needs to increase its service centers all over India first rather than bringing in new cars. In the current scenario, not much will change wrt sales.

Either i was not clear, or you didnt read my post clearly. I am sure punto is not going to sell with the Fiat badge even with the right engines. But i mentioned the right product(meaning a brand new one)has the ability to turn the table as it did for some brands.

And dealers will not open up new service centers without cars plying on the road. It has to be the right balance since dealers are also looking for profit and they are not FIAT maintained rather they are business individuals. So dealers all over India is not going to happen all of a sudden albeit it has been slow.

[nikhil0405]

Originally Posted by Rubbertramps

And dealers will not open up new service centers without cars plying on the road. It has to be the right balance since dealers are also looking for profit and they are not FIAT maintained rather they are business individuals. So dealers all over India is not going to happen all of a sudden.

So do you mean,that Fiat should wait for a decent sales increase before they open new service centers? In present situation, they will have to wait for a long long time if they go with that logic. They need to be proactive else be content with current sales. They can surely offer some incentives to the dealerships as well. Maruti, Hyundai and Honda have made substantial investments in India and are now reaping the rewards.
Fiat would be better off giving 3/4 years of free service + some discount rather than a large discount.

[namit]

Mod Note: As warned before, keep things absolutely NEUTRAL on Team-BHP. Biased posts will NOT be tolerated on this forum.

[fiestarry]

I have always been a detractor of FIAT India whilst being one of its well wishers. Sounds contradictory ?
You would be surprised at how many will be on the same plane as I am.
The Punto is a gem of a car but Fiat needs to think India.
Here cars dont sell because they are solid ( except the Amby). Cars dont sell because they are pretty, beautiful or even gorgeous. If that were the case, the Spark and the Punto would have set sales charts afire. Sadly cars dont even sell because they are SAFE .
Cars have to meet the aspirations of the masses. They have to be reliable, fuel efficient and hassle free to own and yet be priced reasonably. And with decent brand image.
Fiat has lost out on a few counts here.
Fiat can't fight Maruti and Hyundai on price because of their focus on body strength and safety.
Fiat cars will have to take the niche route and hope to make it work like Innova has ...for instance.
Toyota could have given the Innova a better engine but has succeeded with the reliability niche.

This Punto is a great looker has proven, reliable engines with fantastic ride quality. The ground clearance, new interiors and world class charm are fantastic.
It is sad to see that a few 'enthusiasts' are always cribbing about the Punto but have nothing bad to say about a common Swift, a comical Ritz, a shabby Liva, a budget Figo, a tinny i 10 or even a pricey Polo.

It is about time that a new thread on 'how to resurrect FIAT' is started.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by namit

For those who suggest that Punto Active is without Airbags please be informed that the structural strength of the naked Punto is much higher than any of its counterparts.

I am sorry but I don't think you understand how airbags work.

Try a simple test. Run into a steel wall. The wall has excellent structural strength. By your logic you will be safe.

Please understand how crumple zones, seatbelts and airbags work.