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Old 21st September 2019, 16:33   #286
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Default Re: Govt to approve vehicle scrapping policy soon: Nitin Gadkari

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Limit their use - Make cities Low Emission Zones. Do not allow these cars to operate between 7am till 7 pm.
Hey, I don't get this. If a 15+ year old car clears the emission test successfully, why should it not be allowed to ply any time it wants like all other vehicles? I know there's a question mark over emission testing procedures in our country, so maybe that should be fixed first instead of just declaring that all old cars pollute a lot. It has been highlighted multiple times on the forum that ill-maintained newer cars can pollute much more than their older counterparts.

I think strict emission standards should be set, and any car irrespective of its age should be allowed to ply on our city roads only if it's in the clear.

Last edited by boniver : 21st September 2019 at 16:37.
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Old 21st September 2019, 17:28   #287
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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Originally Posted by SavoyWalrus View Post
So, it seems that the government is going all out in scrapping ALL vehicles over 15 years. The auto lobbies have won their battle and will get their sales by arm-twisting and submitting vehicle owners by brute force. The logic behind this is baffling as the road worthiness of the vehicle is not taken into consideration at all. They're putting a lid on India's automotive history.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/71206673.cms
That's not what the article is about. It's about putting a scrapping policy in place. Unless I'm missing something there.
If not, then this government will rightly be thrown out.
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Old 21st September 2019, 18:41   #288
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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That's not what the article is about. It's about putting a scrapping policy in place. Unless I'm missing something there.
If not, then this government will rightly be thrown out.
The scrapping policy is in its final phase and has passed the finance ministry and will be introduced soon. SIAM have been demanding this for quite some time and the government has finally succumbed to their pressure. Seeing the mass following that this government has, nothing might topple them anytime soon.
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Old 21st September 2019, 18:58   #289
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Why is a scrappage scheme so contentious? A Clash For Clunkers type program should be welcomed in India. That is, if it is implemented well. There is a huge market for scientific disposal and re-cycling of cars in India, which till today was done by the unorganized market and done wherever they wanted it. Most Indian cities actually need crushers for cars, in the absence of which older cars are just abandoned wherever they stop! Plus, a steady stream of older cars, commercial vehicles is removed replaced by the new. There is also needs to be regulation which will allow people to register their vintage cars to be road worthy and that is all. Rest can go.

Last edited by avishar : 21st September 2019 at 19:00.
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Old 21st September 2019, 20:45   #290
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Do you really think that Indians can afford to scrap 15 yr old vehicles?
Even US and EUROPE cant afford do this🤔.

Wonder how he (and gen public) is going to come up with the money for cash for 15 year old 'clunkers'

I reckon Mr Gadkari has been a bit of a flop show as the Highways minister and is trying to come up with something 'dramatic' to get back into the limelight.

I dont think this will work as Indians dont earn near enough to scrap 15 year old cars.

On the commercial side, the cost of freight haulage will go up considerably.

On the private side general public will have to get a healthy increase in salary/wage to buy just new vehicles.
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Old 21st September 2019, 22:34   #291
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

A massive chunk of the current vehicles running on the roads must be 15+ years. 22%of cars registered in Bangalore alone were 15+ years of age as of 2018, so the number must be higher in small towns.

Also, this law is going to kill the used car market. Who in their right mind would want to buy a used car when it'll be scrapped a few years later?

When countries in Europe have been a little hesitant in applying this law, I wonder what has prompted the Indian government to bring this law into effect in a poor nation like India.

There is no infrastructure at the moment to scrap vehicles as well. I wonder how they'll execute it with lakhs of vehicles to be scrapped. This is going to be an almighty mess.

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Why is a scrappage scheme so contentious? A Clash For Clunkers type program should be welcomed in India. That is, if it is implemented well. There is a huge market for scientific disposal and re-cycling of cars in India, which till today was done by the unorganized market and done wherever they wanted it. Most Indian cities actually need crushers for cars, in the absence of which older cars are just abandoned wherever they stop! Plus, a steady stream of older cars, commercial vehicles is removed replaced by the new. There is also needs to be regulation which will allow people to register their vintage cars to be road worthy and that is all. Rest can go.
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Old 21st September 2019, 22:48   #292
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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Originally Posted by SavoyWalrus View Post
So, it seems that the government is going all out in scrapping ALL vehicles over 15 years. The auto lobbies have won their battle and will get their sales by arm-twisting and submitting vehicle owners by brute force. The logic behind this is baffling as the road worthiness of the vehicle is not taken into consideration at all. They're putting a lid on India's automotive history.
Incentivizing scrapping of older vehicles? Probably yes.
De-Incentivizing usage of vehicle over 15 years? Yes again.
Forcefully banning vehicles older than 15 years irrespective of the condition of the vehicle and the consequences of producing more vehicles in shorter life span, it is a clear NO in my view.
There is so much stress on reusing and stretching life of a product so that it puts less burden on the environment but the auto industry seems to be trying to do the opposite!
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Old 21st September 2019, 23:18   #293
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

What makes this infuriating is that the minister doesn't cite that 15+ year old vehicle are harmful to the environment, rather this was one of the demands of the SIAM to help Indian automakers. It's like cutting one's own hand to scratch their back.

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Incentivizing scrapping of older vehicles? Probably yes.
De-Incentivizing usage of vehicle over 15 years? Yes again.
Forcefully banning vehicles older than 15 years irrespective of the condition of the vehicle and the consequences of producing more vehicles in shorter life span, it is a clear NO in my view.
There is so much stress on reusing and stretching life of a product so that it puts less burden on the environment but the auto industry seems to be trying to do the opposite!
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Old 22nd September 2019, 11:26   #294
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

So are they banning all 15 + year old vehicles or simply taxing the owners of these vehicles? As long as the vehicle is road worthy does the owner have the option of driving it or must he scrap it?
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Old 22nd September 2019, 11:48   #295
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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So are they banning all 15 + year old vehicles or simply taxing the owners of these vehicles? As long as the vehicle is road worthy does the owner have the option of driving it or must he scrap it?
Scrapping everything - 2, 3, 4, (and more) wheelers. I think the rule that was being touted was 15 year old petrol cars and 10 year old diesel cars will be scrapped, much like what Delhi did.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 12:32   #296
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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Originally Posted by SavoyWalrus View Post
Scrapping everything - 2, 3, 4, (and more) wheelers. I think the rule that was being touted was 15 year old petrol cars and 10 year old diesel cars will be scrapped, much like what Delhi did.
Again, it's a scrapping policy, not a banning policy. What has been done in Delhi is the latter. It's idiotic to the moon and back, yes, but it's not this. It's not saying that 15 years and older cars are illegal. It's putting in place since means to either discourage use, or incentivise scrapping.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 15:44   #297
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Again, it's a scrapping policy, not a banning policy. What has been done in Delhi is the latter. It's idiotic to the moon and back, yes, but it's not this. It's not saying that 15 years and older cars are illegal. It's putting in place since means to either discourage use, or incentivise scrapping.
Transportation scene in many semi urban, rural India is still pathetic. Sight of 30 people traveling in an Tata Ace (which includes sitting on the roof) is quite common. Cars/Utility vehicles which are in road worthy conditions can serve these populations instead of being scrapped.
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Old 5th October 2019, 18:57   #298
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

It can be visualised that a newly proposed vehicle scrappage policy is on the anvil. As we have discussed, the 15 plus year old vehicles (commercial and private) are on the radar of the government. All older notifications it is pertinent have been rescinded and will be replaced by the newly proposed notification (draft).

The new scrappage policy is with different modalities as compared to the one that was uploaded by the Road Transport Ministry, New Delhi about two years back for comments by the public but never finalised. Now as new car makers under the aegis of FADA and SIAM are crying hoarse over subdued and falling new motor vehicle sales, the Ministry is being pressurised to put forth a new policy.

The policy entitled "Voluntary Vehicle Fleet Modernisation Programme" (VVFMP) was truly voluntary last time it was in the public domain. But the newly proposed policy is not so simple. Though it sounds to be "Voluntary", this word is now a "WOLF" in a "SHEEP'S" clothing. This is because it will coerce older motor vehicle owners (private and commercial) to get their vehicles scrapped, because of the prohibitive fitness test taxes being upped by upto 25 or more times. I am avoiding comments on commercial vehicles as they have unions and can duly take up the matter if cornered and if it's not upto their liking.

But for private vehicle owners it is like a sword of Damocles. If a 15 year old car is valued at some Rs 15,000 to Rs 50,000, very few owners will pay Rs 15,000/- for the five yearly fitness tests. They will instead prefer to scrap the car.

As a result, we may lose thousands of Contessas, Ambassadors, Premiers (incl 118 NE and 137 D), M 800's, Zens, Esteems, M 1000's, Ford Escort/ Ikon, Opels, Daewoos, Peugeot 309's, Fiat Uno/ Sienna/ Palio (wonder if there are any from the last five brands surviving ?) once for all or rather forever. Thus, after say three or four decades a vacuum would be felt when these would be rightly eligible for being labelled as "classics".

The new policy as I have tweeted to the Union Transport Minister needs to be renamed as "Coercive Vehicle Fleet Modernisation Programme" (CVFMP) and not "Voluntary". This will be uploaded as the newsreport below says during October 2019 for public comments on the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways (MoRTH) website. As is the procedure, for one month from the date of uploading, comments from the public are invited.

So friends, please be vigilant and do comment and express your views to the authorities, so that they are able to appreciate arguments from private vehicle owners. The fitness test fees etc notified last by the MoRTH on 24.07.2019 have not been given shape, but newsreports say that the fitness test parts are likely to be incorporated in the newly proposed VVFMP.

The Economic Times link:-

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...month/71415925

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 5th October 2019 at 19:04.
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Old 5th October 2019, 20:19   #299
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Everything this government is doing is anti middle class, this is one more of it. They are adopting what western countries are doing without realizing the earning ratio vs the price of cars in this country.

If this is their idea of reviving the slump in the automotive industry, its so anti middle class and pro the big players, that its unreal. In UK if you scrapped your car, you got a good deal out of it when you brought a new car in the form of great discounts, and it was voluntary, in our country, suddenly everything is forced.

I hope the uneducated fools are shown the door soon!
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Old 6th October 2019, 00:33   #300
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Default Re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Central Govt will bring this in the Jurisdiction of state Government. State Government will increase Road Tax as a first step to avoid losses due to scrappage policy discount during new car purchase. And the person who is scrapping the car will get Road Tax Discount equivalent to earlier increase. So Middle Class will be at receiving end as always.

I somehow think, this has been done to feed big fishes from Automotive industry lobby. Rarerly used 15 year old car will be far more gree house gas efficient than producing completely new car. Even some may think that this will spin the wheel of economy but then at least stop giving reason of pollution.

Instead what Government could have done is give limited kilometers permit for old cars. Though it sounds difficult to implement, but this would have correct way of implementation. But this approach will not feed big lobby.
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