Any negative post on a Fiat thread is like throwing a stone into a beehive. How many of you who are vehemently supporting fast manual hatches , and especially the Abarth are actually going buy it, at almost 12 lakhs?
Fiat india offered an excellent 100BHP hatch, over 10 years ago, when the market was filled with 50bhp hatches. How many of you have bought it?
I've owned 8 S10s in the past , and own one now too. Done about a lakh of kms on these, and have experienced the pain of owning a 'complex fiat car', which not even the Fiat service center will touch. Ended up scrapping one car to serve as a donor car for my car and to keep some friends car running.
Have had a fair bit of trouble with a punto 90hp too, and the company ended up taking the car back. So i talk from first hand experience.
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Originally Posted by anand.shankar 1. Glad I was able to amuse you.
2. So the TSI and the DSG makes it the GT an all rounder ? I dint say the Abarth is an all rounder anywhere. |
Have I claimed anywhere that the Polo is an all rounder? You asked why I feel the Punto should undercut the Polo and i've listed out MY reasons. I'm not forcing you to accept the same.
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3. 145 bhp doesn't require a premium over the normal Punto 1.4 Fire ? the 90 HP MJD version sells at 50K premium over the 76Hp MJD Punto. Then according your POV the 90HP itself is very overpriced! The 1.4 FIRE is priced at 9.1Lac on the road, now adding a lac for additional kit and some snob value, brings it to 10.1Lac which is about 20K over the GT TSI. Not considering any discounts on either side, so going by their current pricing, the car will anyways tip over the GT pricing. Just another comparison, the marginally bigger S-Cross DDiS 320 is priced 17.50lacs!
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The market has obviously understood that the Punto is overpriced for what it offers. If it was a perfect product with correct pricing, why is it a market dud, Month after month, since launch. When all cars with the same engine are selling significantly more?
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4. Slowest selling doesn't make Linea a bad car, the Global Fiesta was slow seller too. Those who own one knows what the car is, same with the Linea T-Jet.
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Again, i never claimed it to be a bad car. Just mentioned that the engine is lifted from it.
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5. Abarth has no cult following in India, I don't recollect anyone say that here either.
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I do not know what your sources of information are, but like it or not, the Abarth is not a very well know brand in India, outside the Fiat circles.
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6. EVO Facelift came a year back! Thats not too long ago, you need to factor in the minuscule market they have. They cant launch new cars at will like MSIL or HMSI.
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Which is precisely the point. They are not some kitcar maker to be content in a corner with a few hundred cars sold.
If the cars are better than all the others in the market, why are they consistently failing. They have been here over 15 years now, and still cant even hit 3000 cars a month?
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7. No matter what they price it, going by their track record, we know pretty much what the market response would be. They might sell 100/month if they are real lucky, unless some miracle happens. I guess Fiat knows this as well.
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And your point is?
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8. Finally, its Fiats car and the consumers money. FCA can price it what they want, customers will buy what they want. Basically, they have a new offering, go there if you are interested, else walk on!
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Again, if that's the attitude, why are you battling it out so much for FCA here?
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P.S. This is an open forum, if you feel its overpriced, I have the freedom to have a contradicting opinion ! Your sense of humor wasn't really appreciated. No, before you get there, I am no Fanboy, I have a Fiat and a Toyota, very happy with both.
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That applies both ways. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by motorpsycho Agreed TSI may be cutting edge technology, but as a driver what matters to me is does the the TSI beat the 145 BHP of the Abarth.
100 odd BHP of the GT TSI is now matched with the now launched Aspire Figo, Figo may not have all the features that GT offers but it is couple of lakhs less.
Coming to Fan or Cult following, I think it is a little premature to say it has no following, let it sell a few and the marketing take effect, more and more enthusiasts will be aware of what it can do, maybe than it will have a cult status.
GearBox - I am not sure about this, since I am yet to come across a detailed review on the gearbox, I hope they fix the ratios. |
While i agree that the TSI and the Abarth are different cars, a comparison cant be helped. The comparison comes because these are the main two hatches targeted at enthusiasts.
Technically speaking a Body on ladder 3 cyl TUV is no way related to other crossovers, but still its compared with the Ecosport . The same way this comparison is also valid. That's all .
Regarding Brand recall for Abarth, it might build up in the future. Im talking about the current scenario.
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR And let's understand what they are charging for it.
Regular Polo Highline Petrol - Rs 6,58,808 ex-showroom.
Polo GT TSi - Rs 8,62,771/- ex-showroom.
The difference is about two lakhs. For mainly the engine and transmission. All that cutting edge comes at a heavy price too, my friend. |
7 Speed twin clutch autobox with tiptronic, TSI Motor,Traction control, ESP etc have no value. The absolutely lackluster Punto petrol has an ex showroom of Rs 7.33 lakh. 1.3 lakhs for all the above mentioned kit sounds overpriced now? Yes, That makes a lot of sense.
If I'm not mistaken, the polo doors too shut with a 'reassuring thud'
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Still-
1. It's way less powerful
2. Slower inspite of the lightening quick DSG.
3. Has handling at par with the Punto with raised suspension. Remains to be seen if it can match the Punto Abarth with lowered and stiffened springs.
4. Can't hold a candle to the hydraulic steering of the Punto.
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How long have you driven the Punto abarth for? If you have penned your driving experience on the forum, kindly do share the link, i seem to have missed it. Thank you.
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5. Doesn't over any advantage in the braking department over the regular Polo inspite of having additional 30ps.
6. Looks visually similar to the regular Polo except for some minor tweaks.
7. Has less interior space.
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Agree completely with you on these points.
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8. Has big time reliability concerns over the infamous DQ200 7 speed box.
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The punto is no Toyota either. A majority of punto's have the side pulling isue, which Fiat blames on 'Indian roads' , and several puntos have rust issues. I personally had an experience where the car was so bad, it was taken back by the company/dealer. Im not revealing too many details here.
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So let's see - Punto Abarth scores on engine, performance, handling (will need to wait for official review on this one), steering feel, braking, looks (cheesy to you, but can we accept atleast those alloys are delicious?), interior space and reliability.
Still it's not an all rounder because GT scores on more comfort in the form of an automatic transmission and better driving position?
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Again, how can you confidently claim that performance is great? the punto 90hp is slower than a swift in real life, and nowhere near as driveable as a Polo Tdi.. So 145 bhp on an abarth, lets see how good it is after launch.
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I feel both can co-exist in the market at competing prices. Anyways, even FIAT wouldn't be expecting record sales for the Punto Abarth. So not sure why we are worried on it!
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Let it coexist , fail or succeed, why are people getting so emotional when something is said against Fiat?
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PS- And then there is the government that taxes 1.4 TJet more than 1.2 TSi.
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So? Just because VW has a capable 1.2 and fiat doesn't, VW is the bad guy?
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Originally Posted by vb-san I feel this I am better than you (GT TSI v/s Punto T-Jet) argument is quite uncalled for. There is nothing much cutting edge about the GT TSI, it is amongst the entry-level engines in the VW portfolio and so sparsely kitted when compared to the regular Polo sold in international markets. But yes, on relative terms it’s the best hatchback on sale in India (in the 10 lakhs price range) with 100+ ps of power and also got advantages like the DSG AT and class leading safety kit (e.g.; ESP) in that segment. The Punto may not be the real Abarth, but it’s a step in the right direction; maybe a compromise when compared to what is sold elsewhere but still a great option to have IMO. Abarth or not, a hatchback touching close of 150ps power is just awesome and hope this will ignite a few more launches in that space. |
Cutting edge is in terms of tech. TSI Motor and DSG in a hatch is extremely cutting edge in India where companies are still selling anemic 1.2 l engines with 4 speed autos.
It might be a base engine abroad, but then again, in that context, Multiple airbags and ABS are a basic feature in any developed country, whereas they are seen as 'halo' features only for the top end version, and in some cases, optional in that too. (i10 grand)
And a comparison is inevitable , being the only two enthusiast oriented cars around.
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Originally Posted by keroo1099 If you google 'DQ200 problems" you will see how badly it was condemned all over the world.
Netherlands: Was allowed to run only as a taxi until the problem was solved.
Australia: False neutrals and clutch issues. (Still occurring in 2014)
India & China : Mechatronics (issue solved by changing to mineral oil, I hope). In China they actually made the situation worse initially by trying to update the software on 1/2 a million cars!!!
They recalled 1.6 million cars all over the world to fix the gearbox issue, and now with this latest scandal I wonder how 'cutting edge' their technology really is.
The Polo Tsi is certainly a very nice car, but I would rather live with a 'horrible' gearbox that is reliable, than risk the above. |
My own car sat in the Fiat A.S.S for 7 months, with a broken radiator. Fiat shoehorned a 1.1 radiator in my car and It broke down on the ,middle of the highway, leaving me stranded on a sunday.
While it as lying there gathering dust, a Senior executive of Fiat India, who happened to visit the A.S.S, was shocked that fiat has made such a model, and that too a petrol 1.6, told me to my face(several members of the forum are witness to that) to 'change this old car and get a new powerful Linea FIRE'
Just wanted to emphasize the point that Fiat service and quality is not that great either.