[wilful]

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-rev...-401166,0.aspx

Came across this article in Autocar. Droolworthy pics and I love that shade of green for this one.
I think tho', that the guy's speculative pricing is a bit wishful (to put it mildly).

[Vikram Arya]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

What "should be" and what "is" are, sadly, always two different things, especially when it concerns foreign vehicle manufacturers in India...
Also the speculation on the pricing at this current moment does not seem feasible given the high cost of the Dollar and of course, the fact that most of these vehicles will appear first in the CBU/SKD route, which will impact prices.

Even if you think about it, the Skoda Yeti, which at one time, in 2011-2012 was priced very fairly - in fact at the same price on road as it was in the UK/ Australia at the time, has now almost increased in price from those days, to hit the levels of 29-30 lacs on road today! In 5 years time, the vehicle price has literally risen by Rs 10 lacs!

Can we expect the Jeep Renegade to be priced then, at 22-25 lacs? Seems unlikely to me.

Also, sadly, we don't have any clue if the Jeep chaps / Fiat fellows will even offer this vehicle in India.

Maybe their strategy, like most other manufacturers is to keep the Jeep legend intact in terms of "aspiration", "desirability" and "premium-ness" by bringing only the Grand Cherokee and the Wrangler Unlimited at much higher prices, so that all the necessary hype is created at launch and then slowly, they may move down the food chain or value chain by bringing in the Renegade etc.

The saddest thing of all, is that Jeep is NOT a LUXE SUV Brand! It has always stood for plain, honest, immensely capable, less-frills off road motoring and toughness.

But as usual in this idiotic country with is completely skewed sense of priorities, what started off as a plain Jane "ute" becomes a "super luxury" vehicle which can only be purchased by those god-damned "super-loaded wannabe poseurs", rather than genuine people who love Jeeps and will enjoy them properly! Why is it that normal people here can never access a vehicle which is considered "normal" everywhere else in the world? I hate that!

(This last statement gives me a sense of deja vu, because I had written almost exactly the same words to the "Letter to the Editor" in Top Gear in 2005, talking about the idiotic pricing strategies for SUV's in India...)

However, lets wait and see.

Looks like for the "spend conscious" people, the only way out here in India, if one wants to own any of these "iconic" vehicles, is to wait for the second-hand market to warm up, with examples of the same.

(For example an used Mini Cooper can be bought for 22-32 lacs whereas a brand new example will cost a cool 42-50 lacs! One expects that there will be Jeep Wranglers Unlimited in the second-hand market in 2 years time from launch and while these may be priced at 50 lacs plus at launch, may probably be available at half that, in the used market 2 years down the line!)

Else of course, one can always go and sit in the Jeep showroom with one's tongue hanging out, like a dog begging for a biscuit - and then, tuck one's tail between one's legs, pop out and buy a Thar Crde 4x4 AC instead, at Rs 11 Lacs and keep shut after that!

Jeep Renegade is an interesting creature. It’s Jeep only in name; it shares its platform with Fiat 500 (Jeep engineers have done a lot of work on this). Look at that front lip, no one in their right mind would dare take it to a mildly serious off road trail. Renegade was launched here in North America in March 2015 & I have yet to see a single one on the road and I live in Jeep country; there are 6 on my lane.

Okay that’s a little too much criticism, suffice to say it is a SUV that has more than reasonable off roading capabilities as long as customers don’t expect it to deliver Wrangler’s performance.

Yes it could have acted as a good alternative for those people who want to look beyond the cute utes. If I dare say had FCA decided to manufacture it in India (who knows they might actually decide to do so in 2018/19 if it takes off) then there’s a bleak chance that it could have been priced at 20 odd lacs but as they if wishes were horses….

The entry level Jeep Renegade is priced at US$20,000 with a fully load Trail Hawk addition at just over $27,000. Now let’s put that into perspective; a fully loaded Mustang GT costs a shade over US$42,000 once dust settles. Ford has decided to price it in India at 65 lacs, positioning it as the Muscle car to own. No doubt it is a great clutter breaking choice as you don’t have an option to buy a Camaro or a challenger (GM & FCA, your loss is Ford’s gain).

Would FCA seriously try to position Renegade as a premium 4X4 when they already have their flagship the Wrangler out front; I think not. My guess is they will offer Sahara Unlimited edition of the Wrangler that tops out at US$43,000 which unfortunately is almost the same price as that of the fully loaded Mustang GT. Going by the same logic Wrangler is coming into a segment where there is no competition (I don’t consider Fortuner, Endeavor or the Trail Blazer as competitors as they are in different segment altogether) it is a 4X4 that has the most street cred anywhere in the world, it has cult following in India among off road enthusiasts as well as other well-heeled wannabe posers; can Jeep Wrangler be priced at 65 lacs; I don’t think so.

FCA would do well to price Wrangler at 45 to 50 lacs range & Renegade by positioning it as poor man’s Wrangler & price it at let’s say between 25 to 29 lacs.

As for your very valid question as to why should these utilitarian vehicles that are driven by common folks everywhere be priced at these stupid levels, I think the sales numbers of premium segment in India has given this (over) confidence to manufacturers that they can price their so called premium offerings at a ridiculous level (helped generously by our government that charges 120% customs duty & other miscellaneous levies on CBUs) & get away with that.

They feel that customers will come no matter what. They lose sight of the fact that it is the true enthusiast that actually made these brands so aspirational and it is because of them that these brands are where they are today. It is indeed a pity that a large majority of enthusiasts barring a few would not have access to these vehicles & you will see these Jeeps parked at clubs, five start hotels & malls, that’s where these belong, right? The counter argument could be that companies work to improve shareholders’ value & not for enthusiasts who do not have enough dough in their bank accounts to drive one off the dealer lot (I'm trying to play devil's advocate here). Sad but true to an extent..

At the end of the day FCA will treat these vehicles, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler & Renegade (if it makes it at all) as cash cows as none of their other offerings have worked in India to the extent that could have made their Indian operations profitable. They will milk them to the max because FCA India’s balance sheet is awash in red.

The proverbial question is whether the cash generated by these premium vehicles be enough to offset the cumulative losses incurred over the years. If not then it’s game over for FCA as they have no ammunition left in their armoury and no auto company can continue to make losses endlessly & sustain their operations. FCA has been struggling globally barring their North American operations owing to paucity of capital investment in developing new platforms & this situation is unlikely to change any time soon.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by wilful

[url]
I think tho', that the guy's speculative pricing is a bit wishful (to put it mildly).

Absolutely right. Wishful thinking indeed! I don't think this wish will come true even in some crazy "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' fuelled dream. The speculative pricing in that article, is probably what it will command, if at all it gets launched, only in the 3rd Hand market, let alone the second hand one!

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

JLook at that front lip, no one in their right mind would dare take it to a mildly serious off road trail. Renegade was launched here in North America in March 2015 & I have yet to see a single one on the road and I live in Jeep country; there are 6 on my lane.

Okay that’s a little too much criticism, suffice to say it is a SUV that has more than reasonable off roading capabilities as long as customers don’t expect it to deliver Wrangler’s performance.

Yes it could have acted as a good alternative for those people who want to look beyond the cute utes.

The entry level Jeep Renegade is priced at US$20,000 with a fully load Trail Hawk addition at just over $27,000.

a fully loaded Mustang GT costs a shade over US$42,000 once dust settles. Ford has decided to price it in India at 65 lacs,

Would FCA seriously try to position Renegade as a premium 4X4 when they already have their flagship the Wrangler out front; I think not. My guess is they will offer Sahara Unlimited edition of the Wrangler that tops out at US$43,000

Wrangler is coming into a segment where there is no competition (I don’t consider Fortuner, Endeavor or the Trail Blazer as competitors as they are in different segment altogether) it is a 4X4 that has the most street cred anywhere in the world, it has cult following in India among off road enthusiasts as well as other well-heeled wannabe posers; can Jeep Wrangler be priced at 65 lacs; I don’t think so.

FCA would do well to price Wrangler at 45 to 50 lacs range & Renegade by positioning it as poor man’s Wrangler & price it at let’s say between 25 to 29 lacs.

As for your very valid question as to why should these utilitarian vehicles that are driven by common folks everywhere be priced at these stupid levels, I think the sales numbers of premium segment in India has given this (over) confidence to manufacturers that they can price their so called premium offerings

They lose sight of the fact that it is the true enthusiast that actually made these brands so aspirational and it is because of them that these brands are where they are today. It is indeed a pity that a large majority of enthusiasts barring a few would not have access to these vehicles & you will see these Jeeps parked at clubs, five start hotels & malls, that’s where these belong, right?

At the end of the day FCA will treat these vehicles, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler & Renegade (if it makes it at all) as cash cows as none of their other offerings have worked in India to the extent that could have made their Indian operations profitable. They will milk them to the max because FCA India’s balance sheet is awash in red.

The proverbial question is whether the cash generated by these premium vehicles be enough to offset the cumulative losses incurred over the years. .is unlikely to change any time soon.

Such a first class post Vikram. So well articulated.

And absolutely my sentiments exactly.

Yes the Renegade is NOT a True Off Roader. It IS most definitely a cutie with a bit of dirt on and a bit of off road cred. In India it will be an alternative to the CRV, Yeti and the likes of those. The Renegade has a thick frontal LIP, with a longer overhang, which straightaway will impact its break over angles and probably scrape those steep slopes and things. The little Yeti on the other hand is quite neat and has almost no LIP or overhang, but while it has a clever 4x4 system, it is at best, to be used for snow, ice and slush etc, certainly not for river fording and rock climbing as seen in the movie "Hatari"!

America most certainly is Jeep country and full of those original outdoor enthusiasts who made Jeep what it is. Such people are relatively few and far between in India and anyway the median income in India is nowhere near that of the US. Nor is the availability of used Jeeps and suchlike, which are in top condition and accessible to more people, so common as it would be out there in the US. Same goes for the equipment available, the actual trails and the other "organised" facilities which make Trail riding a joy in the US. In India this is still an "Elite" pastime. Normal people have to go to work in their fields and toil and dig the soil, both physical and digital.

Yes, the Wrangler has immense 4x4 Cred. Its natural competitors here in India are none. Barring the Mahindra Thar which is quite literally the poor man's Wrangler.

But the pricing game here owes a lot to the Duties and Taxes. That kills everyone completely. And sows salt on the foundations too, as in Carthage!

Now who on earth, barring a few posers, would buy the Mustang at 65 lacs? The same fellows who probably bought the Nissan 370Z at its ridiculous price of 60 lacs. And the same characters are the ones who will go and buy the Jeep Wrangler at a similar price. These vehicles will never go off road.
They will remain like those innumerable Land Rover Defenders sitting about Sloane Street in London - which earned them the un-enviable euphemism of "Chelsea Tractor". These same buyers can be likened to those who will insist on wearing their (artistically muddied) Tweeds and Wellies and carrying their "Grouse Shootin' paraphernalia with them to their offices on Monday - poseurs who simply have to prove that they've got themselves an alternative "Country Lifestyle" when they are actually mere slaves to the lucre fuelled "Digital Revolution" going on in the Cities!

And yes again to your statement that these big prices are an attempt to claw their company back in to Black from the sea of Red that they've been floundering about in, these last several years. Saying that, the volumes that they are likely to achieve with these prices, will definitely not help them in this task either.

It would certainly be more sensible for them to price themselves a Tad more aggressively and invite a whole new bunch of people onto the Brand platform, build long term Brand loyalty and cred, with those who matter, and slowly, over time, build a Brand Tradition, from "Father" to "Son" like the Mahindra's did, quite by accident or possibly because there was a complete monopoly brought on by the protectionist economy of the time! (At least in cases like mine, Mahindra was the sum of everything UTE and off road - right from my early childhood in the Tea Estates to my early 40's in the City!)

However, typical of the short sightedness of all manufacturers everywhere, they will come in here with a bang. They will price everything high and pump in some big time steroids by way of marketing and events and expect this to sustain the Brand and create a cash cow at a way faster rate of acceleration than normal.

Sadly, the world does not always move because of inordinate inorganic pressure except when the price is perceived as "right", by the "target consumer". This fact is amply demonstrated by the rise rise rise and then dip, in E Commerce in India.

This is a complex, price sensitive market, and there are absolutely no shortcuts - that is, if one wants to get to the real meat in the Pyramid - if not the bottom of the Pyramid, at least to the middle where some volumes are sitting!

For the moment, however, as regards ownership in India of a real Jeep like a Wrangler Unlimited TrailHawk or Renegade Top Spec TrailHawk version, I shall continue to dream and as Edmond Dantes was forced to do in the Chateau D'If in Alexandre Dumas's visceral novel The Count of Monte Cristo, I shall "Wait and Hope". "Wait and Hope"!

[vivekgk]

Saw the three test cars in Kerala two weeks ago, while driving from Trivandrum to Ernakulam. They were going to Trivandrum side. Anybody else spotted these?

[wilful]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Absolutely right. Wishful thinking indeed! I don't think this wish will come true even in some crazy "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' fuelled dream. The speculative pricing in that article, is probably what it will command, if at all it gets launched, only in the 3rd Hand market, let alone the second hand one!

It beats me how seasoned journos often get their predictions so way off!
Actually methinks Renegade will bypass India altogether - FCA will probably come out with that compact SUV (below Renegade) -pic shown earlier in the thread - in markets like ours and position it against the likes of the Creta.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by wilful

It beats me how seasoned journos often get their predictions so way off!
Actually methinks Renegade will bypass India altogether - FCA will probably come out with that compact SUV (below Renegade) -pic shown earlier in the thread - in markets like ours and position it against the likes of the Creta.

I wouldn't be too sure (maybe wishful thinking though) - but there is most certainly a market out there for a 30 Lac rupee compact SUV with 4x4 and all the other bells and whistles.
Why else would VW be bringing in the Tiguan and placing it above the Yeti?
Also, if the Renegade with all its bells and whistles and the Added Cred of being from the House of the Original SUV does come in around this price on road, then it offers an extremely viable alternative to say, the BMW X1 and the Audi Q3 as well.
Im hoping that the big daddies at FC see it this way too!

[wilful]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I wouldn't be too sure (maybe wishful thinking though) - but there is most certainly a market out there for a 30 Lac rupee compact SUV with 4x4 and all the other bells and whistles.
Why else would VW be bringing in the Tiguan and placing it above the Yeti?
Also, if the Renegade with all its bells and whistles and the Added Cred of being from the House of the Original SUV does come in around this price on road, then it offers an extremely viable alternative to say, the BMW X1 and the Audi Q3 as well.
Im hoping that the big daddies at FC see it this way too!

Yes - we live in hope.
But with the Indian mentality of 'the bigger the more expensive (hence desirable)' I would approach it with caution (if I were a car-maker). A compact SUV - like Yeti (size wise) against the brawny looking Fortuner/Endeavour... I honestly have my doubts whether those super loaded wannabes will go for it (like you said - they constitute the mass here). And some of them will probably say - at a few hundred thousands more we can get a German compact SUV.
Maybe - just maybe - the Jeep pedigree will do the trick.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by wilful

Yes - we live in hope.
But with the Indian mentality of 'the bigger the more expensive (hence desirable)' I would approach it with caution (if I were a car-maker). A compact SUV - like Yeti (size wise) against the brawny looking Fortuner/Endeavour... I honestly have my doubts whether those super loaded wannabes will go for it (like you said - they constitute the mass here). And some of them will probably say - at a few hundred thousands more we can get a German compact SUV.
Maybe - just maybe - the Jeep pedigree will do the trick.

We Indian demons have such skewed priorities no?
Size = Expensive
Bigger = Better (all the Better to Bully others with)
Size = Power
Might = Right

We have all the makings of a developing Nation - Brawn and Power speak.

Just like the US of the 1800's - Wild West times!

Actually closer to the US of the early 1900's - the Age of the Robber Baron...

[RavenAvi]

Spotted while parked at night at some undisclosed location in Pune by a Motoroids reader.

[lakhanironak]

Spotted the same Renegade test mule here in Thane, Mumbai at a fuel station. There were bunch of Fiat India employees along with 2 Jeep Wranglers (One in white and the other in black) and 2 Renegades (both camouflaged).

[shankar.balan]

I wonder why the Jeep chaps are fiddling about so much with the Renegade here in India, if they are not going to launch it...

Given the specs on the Wrangler, it is not going to come in at much less than 50 odd lacs for sure.

And the Grand Cherokee will probably fight for space with the Discovery etc.

I m hoping the Renegade is somewhere in their plan and hopefully at the "desired price" - around 30 ish...

[volkman10]

The Jeep Renegade has been spotted testing in India again,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpWn1MfvJXQ

http://www.motorworldindia.com/scoop...testing-india/

[Nilesh5417]

Some more pics from an undisclosed location in my apartments! Will peep in later if any one is interested in more pics.

[volkman10]

Jeep Renegade spotted on test in Chennai,





Link

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Jeep Renegade spotted on test in Chennai,

Link

I am in Chennai and while I was driving around in MRC nagar, I spotted the same two Renegade and the Wrangler, which were parked. These guys are doing some serious testing. They were spotted in Mumbai sometime back in August and now they are in Chennai.

Pictures: