[R2D2]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

We love to shame our home grown products so much that we miss to give them a fair chance to compete. Let the car come out, let us see the Team-Bhp review or comparo reviews from other publications and then bash the Alturas for being a Mahindra. We will have plenty of opportunities!

If you read my message carefully you will see that I am criticising the price not the product. And as an individual with a choice of spending 35 L I would prefer to put my money on a product and company that is known for its reliable vehicles. It is a big sum for me.

Now coming to money being spent on a "Desi" product - we purchased a product from another Indian company whose name starts with T. And guess what? That SUV was sold before it turned 2 because it gave us too many hassles including a serious brake failure. Since that day I believe my patriotism extends to my country and countrymen only rather than manufactured products. I have become inclined to purchasing a high quality product(s) that is/are tried and tested which reduces the chance of me turning into a guinea pig or, in case of brake failure, a highway statistic. Once bitten, many times shy.

As for Indian manufacturers meeting performance and quality standards of multinational car companies - well, lets say they still have some way to go. The onus is on them to pull up their socks and set things right. Not on us the consumers. Mahindra/SSangyong vs a Toyota or even a Ford. Heck man, it isn't even a fair match. Not just in India but across the world.

[vipul_singh]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Let the car come out, let us see the Team-Bhp review or comparo reviews from other publications and then bash the Alturas for being a Mahindra. We will have plenty of opportunities!

But what reviews / comparos would be able to comment on long term dependability? The negative response on here is mostly about paying good money on a product that may not be dependable in the long run.

So, till the longer term (2 years, at least) reviews start coming in, perceptions are all we have. On one hand, we have an unproven vehicle from a fledgeling auto maker (and that too, with *Mercedes* components). On the other hand, we have a proven product from a global behemoth. And that is what these opinions on price are based on.

And it is not just Mahindra which people are 'discriminating against', unpatriotically. Ford, with its Endeavour has suffered the exact same fate against Toyota.

All I am saying is that this is not about the country of origin at all.

[Hayek]

I don’t think Mahindra would have had any leeway to price the Alturas below where they did. Ultimately, it is a car that is designed to compete with vehicles like the Fortuner, Everest / Endeavor and Pajero Sport in global markets - it would be priced at a slight discount to peers there, and that same price would translate into an Indian price when the product is launched here. This is not a product that is 1 segment above the XUV - it clearly is 2 segments above, and comparing prices with the XUV is comparing apples and oranges. You can question Mahindra’s wisdom in trying to compete with the Fortuner, but not the product pricing. And I guess Mahindra knows what they are doing - this new generation product helps establish themselves in a segment where they were not present before, and will hopefully lead to better products and profits in the future

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Thanks to such thinking, we can be rest assured that Indian automobile brands will have no scope to rise to the top on an international level, ever!

We love to shame our home grown products so much that we miss to give them a fair chance to compete.

Let the car come out, let us see the Team-Bhp review or comparo reviews from other publications and then bash the Alturas for being a Mahindra. We will have plenty of opportunities!

Not really, Indian brands are improving and the customers are there if they see value in the offering. The XUV is an example of that, there are plenty of well established brands that have nowhere near the volumes of the XUV. Foreign products don't stand a chance in certain situations too, I can't think of a single alternative to our bolero. The scorpio is another great vehicle, sells without a sweat. Suppose Fiat rebadge a Chrysler 300 and put a 2 litre mjd in it and sell it for 50 lakhs, would you buy it? The MJD tech is proven and the car has better space than the 3/C/A4, the badge matters.

Brands are limited by customer perception, the VW Phaeton/Touareg are extremely well engineered, yet they are beaten by their badge engineered Audis, purely for the prestige the Audi commands.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by R2D2

If you read my message carefully you will see that I am criticising the price not the product. And as an individual with a choice of spending 35 L I would prefer to put my money on a product and company that is known for its reliable vehicles. It is a big sum for me.

Your comment was -

"So, 35 big ones for this Mahindra-SSangyong product? This is silly pricing! What the heck are they thinking?!"

Reading the above, I assumed that you were talking about the brand in general (that it is too mediocre to spend 35 Lacs) and not the product.

Now coming to money being spent on a "Desi" product - we purchased a product from another Indian company whose name starts with T. And guess what? That SUV was sold before it turned 2 because it gave us too many hassles including a serious brake failure.

I have burnt my hands with Tata too, namely the Safari. But then we had the XUV and now we have the Hexa.

Just curious - people have had issues with Toyota/Honda too. Will you disregard all the new products from that brand too?

As for Indian manufacturers meeting performance and quality standards of multinational car companies - well, lets say they still have some way to go.

How did you judge the performance and quality of the Alturas before it is launched?

That is my point - the whole bashing is based on the brand, not the actual product.

Again, I am not saying the Alturas will match the quality levels of international brands (even I cannot be sure), but at least give it a fair chance to compete.

Mahindra/SSangyong vs a Toyota or even a Ford. Heck man, it isn't even a fair match. Not just in India but across the world.

True. Because we think that way!

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

The negative response on here is mostly about paying good money on a product that may not be dependable in the long run.

"May not" is the key word here.

So you agree the bashing is based on assumptions?

All I am saying is that this is not about the country of origin at all.

Respect your opinion, but let's just agree to disagree.

[giri1.8]

Good news is that, it is already BS-6 compliant, Toyota has already announced 4% price hike across the range, I expect Ford to do something similar as well, seems to be a common thing during the year end.

If Mahindra could keep the customer interest, and provide good service experience, then this could do well once the competition has to increase the price again to meet emissions. Price difference would be significantly higher with time, given that Mahindra doesn't indulge in immediate price hike.

Hope this product succeeds, competition will be forced to add more features.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I don’t think Mahindra would have had any leeway to price the Alturas below where they did. Ultimately, it is a car that is designed to compete with vehicles like the Fortuner, Everest / Endeavor and Pajero Sport in global markets - it would be priced at a slight discount to peers there,

Some reviews from Australian market, they will launch in November in Australia and that should give an idea how they have positioned in one of the largest/ mature markets for such vehicles.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-rev...g-rexton-70189

https://www.caradvice.com.au/672103/...rexton-review/

Now coming to the point of general discussion regarding trusting Mahindra with this kind of money, I believe it takes a while to build the brand, sometimes even decades. Mahindra's reputation from previous Rexton is best to be forgotten. Recently, we were in Jaisalmer with Mod Anshuman and many members of local NCR off-roading. There were 2 Fortuners, one which has done multiple 6 figure Km and is used/ abused to the core and was one of the better performing vehicles from the lot. Anshuman's V-Cross lost Front Axle on Day 1 and the spare Axle was not available with any Dealer across India. Isuze needs at least 15 days to ship the parts. I am sure he will put his experiences somewhere when they return. On the other hand, there have been no major faults in the Fortuner ever and even if there are any issues, spare parts availability in any part of the country will not be a problem on a Toyota. If we go by the previous ownership reviews of Rexton, despite Mahindra present everywhere, getting common spares or service done on these Imported vehicles is not easy.

You don't buy a 4x4 SUV for quilted interiors or car-play, in fact, the mighty LC/ Prado won't have half the features as there are in this. Perhaps, they should have done more homework and got some parts indigenised to save on the costs and tried to price it closer to 25 Lac ex-showroom.

Let's see, how people take this pricing in time to come.

[civic-sense]

No need to bring patriotism and supporting desi companies into this thread. Those who buy desi cars out of patriotism are fools.

The problem with the Alturas could be summed up like this: It is a car with a desi badge and a foren price.

The average buyer do not know or care that it is a foren car under the skin. They only see a 35L Mahindra.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

No need to bring patriotism and supporting desi companies into this thread. Those who buy desi cars out of patriotism are fools.

I have to say such a strong language is unwarranted even if it's your personal opinion.

Originally Posted by civic-sense

The problem with the Alturas could be summed up like this: It is a car with a desi badge and a foren price.

Can you please explain what a "foren price" is and why such a price should exist and is justified?

[DoneAndDusted]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Some reviews from Australian market, they will launch in November in Australia and that should give an idea how they have positioned in one of the largest/ mature markets for such vehicles.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-rev...g-rexton-70189

https://www.caradvice.com.au/672103/...rexton-review/

Thanks Turbanator! This might be a noob question, but looking at these links, i see that the Fortuner retails for around 50K AUD and the Ford Everest, which I am assuming the same as the Endevour in our Market is in the 50-60K AUD range, while the Rexton is listed around 40K, which is a good 20% less pricey. How come this price parity is not being maintained in India? Is this only cause of the CKD overhead here? Again these comparisons make me wonder if Mahindra has got their pricing right.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Your comment was -

"So, 35 big ones for this Mahindra-SSangyong product? This is silly pricing! What the heck are they thinking?!"

Reading the above, I assumed that you were talking about the brand in general (that it is too mediocre to spend 35 Lacs) and not the product.

Yes, it is a comment on the price. They need to price this product at a level that makes it attractive to people who currently are considering the Fortuner or Endeavour as a SUV purchase.

I have burnt my hands with Tata too, namely the Safari. But then we had the XUV and now we have the Hexa.

I choose to vote with my wallet and will purchase a product that suits my requirements. The purchase is not and will never be out of a sense of loyalty or patriotism for Indian automobile companies. To me "Be Indian buy Indian" is a political slogan and one that I do not follow.

Just curious - people have had issues with Toyota/Honda too. Will you disregard all the new products from that brand too?

I will choose to buy and/or give repeat business to manufacturers with whose products me and my immediate (or extended family) have had a good to great ownership experience. Sadly in this matter Tata and Fiat/FCA have failed..miserably.

How did you judge the performance and quality of the Alturas before it is launched? That is my point - the whole bashing is based on the brand, not the actual product.

Read my message again. A product from a a fledgling automobile company going against products from top rung manufacturers where the launch price is near the price of a market leader. To me that makes no sense.

Again, I am not saying the Alturas will match the quality levels of international brands (even I cannot be sure), but at least give it a fair chance to compete.

Absolutely!! Let the better car win. Time will tell. But for M&M to attract potential buyers to their yet unknown Ssyangyong vehicle it would be best to price it attractively and wait for owner feedback to build their reputation.

Hyundai did a wonderful job in this matter. They have travelled a long, long way since the late 1990s to now. And this applies not only to India but worldwide.

True. Because we think that way!

Nopes, I disagree. It not "we" thinking that way. You are in the Dubai, UAE according to your 'Location'. How many Mahindra or Ssangyong SUVs do you see there compared with vehicles from Toyota, Ford, Nissan and luxury European marques?

[JS Kwt]

Are Car manufacturers Patriotic while pricing their cars ?
Or while marking Variants or providing Safety features ? Or in After Sales Services ? Does Patriotism define or run the Auto industry ?

Why is the Onus of Patriotism on the Indian Buyer ?
Is buying a CKD car sold by an Indian company MORE Patriotic than buying a Made in India car sold by a foreign conpany ?

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by Sheel

2 things which I want to know, this being a SUV.

# Approach angle, in comparison to other SUV's.

And

# Break over angle, it has no side steps as well, so any hit while off roading will have to be borne by the running board. Not cool IMO.

Approach: 20.5 degrees
Departure: 22 degrees
Ramp over : 20 degrees


Source: Australian Reviews Rexton G4

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Thanks to such thinking, we can be rest assured that Indian automobile brands will have no scope to rise to the top on an international level, ever!

For the life of me I cannot fathom this line of reasoning. Is Mahindra a social enterprise? Is the product not good enough? So I should buy Mahindra at an inflated price just because its an Indian company and I am in Indian doesn't matter that you are sitting in Dubai while I am in Melbourne. Will Mahindra or anyone else try hard enough to give us a better product if we follow this line of reasoning when buying a product?

Did it stop Hyundai/Kia from becoming mainstream brands now after starting as mediocre bargains because koreans did not buy their overpriced products? Did it stop the japanese brands from conquering the world? Please stop making excuses for the manufacturers and let them work at delivering a product that market wants to buy. If Apple can go from almost bankrupt to a trillion dollar company in almost a decade, there is no reason to believe that a good product at the right price will not work well.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

We love to shame our home grown products so much that we miss to give them a fair chance to compete.

A fair chance? Picking up a product from a largely unknown korean brand, rebadging it as Mahindra and pricing it on par with Toyota, the reliability benchmark across the world and Ford, more than a decade old company and expecting us to buy because it an Indian company? How is that fair?

We are masters at frugal engineering. We reached Mars at cost less than what it takes Hollywood to produce a movie. Mahindra sells XUV500 by thousands, not because its Mahindra and because it is an Indian company, but because the product delivered value.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Let the car come out, let us see the Team-Bhp review or comparo reviews from other publications and then bash the Alturas for being a Mahindra. We will have plenty of opportunities!

A review would not tell you how the long term reliability is or how the product is to live with everyday which is why building a brand and reputation takes decades not just one glowing review.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

Approach: 20.5 degrees
Departure: 22 degrees
Ramp over : 20 degrees

Thanks

In comparison, the Ford Endeavor has an approach angle of 30 degrees and Toyota Fortuner has an approach angle of 29 degrees.

In this department, this falters beyond expectation for me.