[KarthikK]

It would indeed be interesting to see what the Jimny does here if they decide to launch it at a competitive price point. From an offroading point of view, the 5 door version (which rumours are saying is destined for India rather than the 3 door) might become more of a people mover than an offroader .

They are up for some stiff competition from the likes of the upcoming Thar from Mahindra, which by the way, seems to be getting a serious power and torque bump with that new engine on the horizon.

[pgsagar]

If this is what Maruti-Toyota combine are planning to fight Creta/Seltos with, then they might as well not try. That thing in the first pic looks dated already. Who will look at it in 2022? Forget the Seltos, even the weird looking new Creta looks stunning next to this. In fact their current S-Cross looks much better and has a good chance of taking on the duo.

If I am a Maruti dealer, I would be a worried man these days. No diesel. A 4-speed AT box in 2020. Can't they at least design a 5-speed, if not 6? And, they have been around here since donkey's years. And, Jimny? I fear we will see 3rd iteration of Thar before we see Jimny in India. Sorry about my rant but I think they are falling behind now.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by TusharK

Daihatsu New Global Architecture (DNGA) - a low-cost version of the Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA)....

The words "low-cost version" raise a lot of red flags in my mind. Honda & Toyota have failed/had limited success with the Brio & Etios platform respectively.

If MSIL wants to compete with the Creta/Seltos, they should launch the Vitara with all the engine and transmission options in their kitty.

[Shreyas Agarwal]

Originally Posted by GTO

Exactly what I was thinking. Maruti is salivating just thinking of the Creta + Seltos' enormous profits, but the fact is, Maruti simply does not have the tech capability or R&D to compete with them. It's one thing to think of selling a 15 - 20 lakh car, but entirely another to execute it. Take something as simple as a BS6 diesel = Kia has been selling one since 2019, while Maruti might sell one by 2021. Dual clutch AT? Dream on. Diesel + AT? What's that? Maruti will also find it challenging to match the quality levels of these two. It's like asking the local Dominos to serve out a pure-Italian gourmet pizza. Not impossible, but quite difficult.

Apart from technical capability it feels like a conflicting area of expertise.
The customer of the 15-20 lakh segment focusses more on quality of materials, bling, fit and finish, safety, solidity and especially brand image while caring little for FE (think about people driving the Hector DCT) and to an extent even a slightly high price tag whereas Maruti's expertise has always been in taking out maximum FE out of their engines and pricing their cars economically, thus making paper thin cars, with poor interiors, little concern for safety. Also, in the end people find Maruti to be VFM and not premium which is a major concern for people who buy cars in this segment.

[DicKy]

In an ideal world, Toyota would have launched the Raize against Venue, Yaris Cross against Creta and the Corolla Cross against the Harrier.

But then, why bother when you have a rebadged Brezza a.k.a Urban cruiser and an SUV on a stretched Raize platform, that you could price anywhere from 10- 20 lakhs

The Rav4 moved upmarket and hence ASEAN got the Corolla Cross. While we don't even deserve that, and end up getting an even shrunken version of the Corolla Cross on a DNGA platform.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...bracket-3.html (Toyota plans new MPV & SUV in the Rs 15 - 20 lakh bracket)

Already been discussed in the above thread, but guess that's for Toyota and this is for Maruti.

Originally Posted by TusharK

The carmaker is also said to be developing a 7-seater MPV that is expected to arrive by 2023. Codenamed B560, the new model could be positioned between the Ertiga and Toyota Innova. It could get sliding rear doors.

Sliding doors. Interesting.

The B in the B560 platform, could either be the old B platform that the Indian Yaris is based on or the new TNGA-B platform. The latter in typical Toyota speak would be deemed cost prohibitive for India.

Ofcourse, it's an Avanza successor on the DNGA platform. But the B platform probability and sliding doors brings the funky Sienta to the picture.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

The words "low-cost version" raise a lot of red flags in my mind. Honda & Toyota have failed/had limited success with the Brio & Etios platform respectively.

The DNGA platform shouldn't be of concern. The Raize/Rocky scored 5 stars in the JNCAP.
Just hope Toyota doesn't learn nasty stuff from Maruti.

Only concern is that it's a stretched version of a Venue type crossover platform. For the pricing they are intending, should have put a more capable platform, or should do a good work on the DNGA.

Toyota harping on them localising hybrid system and Maruti's smug attitude towards diesels.

I do believe they have an ace up their sleeves.
They sure are going to launch a full blown proper hybrid with the planned models.

[Keeleri_Achu]

Full disclosure : My family have been owning Maruti cars for the past 17 years and I absolutely love every single one of them. None of them have left us stranded in the middle of the road or have spent more than a day than that was required at the service station. To top it off, they did it while being extremely frugal and fun at the same time. So my comment is going to be undoubtedly biased towards Maruti.

The general consensus in the thread so far is that Maruti either has a flop in their hand or are going to have a really tough time selling one. I'm not surprised. At the same time, I beg to disagree.

I came here after reading this thread, https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/hatch...vs-others.html (2020 Volkswagen Polo vs Maruti Swift vs Hyundai Elite i20 vs the others) . Now that is what I call an accurate representation of Indian sales figures. 36% Polo, 24% Altroz, 14% Figo, 9% i20, 7% Swift, 4% Grand i10 Nios, 2% Baleno () and 1% Ignis. Right.

I get it. This is a wish list of BHPians. It is not meant to reflect actual car sales. I agree with you. That is exactly what I'm trying to say here. Maruti could very well have another chart topper in the making, even if it is a flop in the forum.

"These are sub 10 lakh hatchbacks. This is in no way going to reflect the sales chart of Rs 15 lakh+ vehicles. People are going to put a lot more research into their decisions." Well I believe that people are already putting a lot of research into their decisions as most if not all of those little hatchbacks breach the 10 lakh barrier in their fully loaded trims. Also, no one is going to deny the fact that the 15 lakh segment is the perfect upgrade path for the current set of hatchback owners.

"Maruti/Suzuki doesn't know how to build premium cars. The requirement of premium owners are different to that of their current crop of customers." For their information, let me present you the official review of their last premium product.

Originally Posted by sidindica

MARUTI SUZUKI KIZASHI 2.4 CVT

What you'll like:

• Sporty and stubby design
• Silky smooth engine with sporty exhaust growl
• Bags of torque with strong mid range
• High interior quality, comprehensive level of standard safety equipment
• Fine balance between ride and handling
• Amazing brakes, 17" wheels a first for the 2.4 litre D segment sedan
• Maruti's high calibre after sales support

What you won't:

• Some cheap interior parts
• High rpm rubber band CVT effect and hesitant transmission
• Steering feel not exactly worthy of a "sport" badge
• Over optimistic pricing invites comparisons with superb and accord
• Suzuki brand lacks snob value in the D segment

"The Kizashi was a failure. Nobody bought the overpriced Sedan with a Suzuki badge." Yes. It was a failure. But does that mean people still won't buy a Suzuki C-SUV ? If Maruti seemed to think so, they wouldn't have taken a decade long hiatus and made certain preparations. Read https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...tomers-up.html (Nexa: 11 lakh customers up!)

Adding to that, it is no surprise that Maruti is working on a Toyota product instead of building one from ground up. Does anyone here think Toyota doesn't know how to build/sell a Rs 15L+ vehicle?

"Maruti is not going to introduce any diesel. They are still going to use the 1.5 petrol and the archaic 4 speed auto transmission." Now this is where I'm going to agree with everyone else in the forum. The product will be a failure if they stick the same powertrain options from Brezza or S-Cross. But I believe Maruti is still keeping an ace up its sleeve. Read https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/225075-toyota-localise-electric-hybrid-tech-india.html (Toyota to localise electric & hybrid tech in India)


The DNGA platform being an iteration of TNGA could very well support full-hybrid vehicles. 'A compact SUV from Maruti that can return around 20 kmpl in Bangalore city traffic and can be driven for 15 years in NCR'. Now tell me that is not going to sell. Of course this is just a speculation. Just like every other post in this thread. Adding to the whole diesel debate, how long do you think other tier 1 cities will hold out before they enforce a ban similar to NCR? And how long after that will there be a nation wide ban?. We all know diesel is a dying breed. It'll last at most another decade and a half. If Maruti can deliver a full hybrid at the price of a diesel, it can bring forward the timeline.

As for turbo petrols, every time Maruti tried to satisfy the enthusiast crowd, things didn't really go that well. Baleno RS and S-Cross 1.6 are recent examples. Granted, they were overpriced for what they were and had other faults. But hey, if Maruti thinks they can keep their cash registers ringing with an average/adequate engine, what's the harm in trying? Enthusiasts can still opt for a Hyundai/Kia with 1.4 turbo which are brilliant products.

Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT

Pure textbook case of To Little To Late. Trust Maruti to do it time and again and Indians to still crowd thier showrooms.

Sir, we haven't even seen a sketch of the final product be it interior or exterior and it's too little already? No. I'm not implying literally 'too little' . As for too late, do you think people won't buy a decent Maruti product just because it was too late? Brezza was launched almost 4 years after the launch of Ecosport. How did that go for them? People flock to Maruti showrooms because just as you kind of said, people 'trust' them. And as you can see from my opening para, in most cases, that trust remain strong.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

The words "low-cost version" raise a lot of red flags in my mind.

If they can launch a low cost platform without compromising safety or overall quality, why shouldn't they do it. Even the VW group which is hailed for it's engineering prowess in the forum is introducing a low cost MQB A0 IN platform. Nobody seemed to bat an eyelid on that.

To sum it up, all I'll say is that, if Maruti decides to go for something like a larger looking S-Cross with the same old powertrain, they will have a loser. If they decide to properly team up with Toyota and make the most use of their partnership, Hyundai and Kia will be seeing some tough competition in a couple of years.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by DicKy

The DNGA platform shouldn't be of concern. The Raize/Rocky scored 5 stars in the JNCAP....

Originally Posted by Keeleri_Achu

If they can launch a low cost platform without compromising safety or overall quality, why shouldn't they do it...

If Etios is anything to go buy, I'm sure Toyota can build a safe car. What I'm worried about is cost cutting in the interior- Maruti + Toyota should use every single resource they have to build a car better than the Creta/Seltos.

The Seltos is now sold in markets like the USA whereas Suzuki pulled out a few years ago.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

If Etios is anything to go buy, I'm sure Toyota can build a safe car. What I'm worried about is cost cutting in the interior- Maruti + Toyota should use every single resource they have to build a car better than the Creta/Seltos.

The Etios saga and the Hyundai/Kia success should be a sign for them that most customers won't care about the mechanicals if the visible exterior touch points are not feel good. The Yaris for all it's mediocrity has a pretty solid build quality, and the Raize also seems to have pretty decent interior quality.

Hope, Maruti's role in the partnership doesn't include expertise in the interior plastic quality or shedding weight via minimising the number of nut/bolts and clips in the interior. Gifting rattles before the first oil change.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

The Seltos is now sold in markets like the USA whereas Suzuki pulled out a few years ago.

Interestingly, last night while rummaging through internet to see if Venue and Creta are of same platform, found out that the Seltos sold in India and USA are different. Maybe already discussed in the Seltos thread, but new info for me.

From Wikipedia

There are three versions of Seltos, one which is the larger car built in South Korea destined for developed markets (body code: SP), and two others are the Indian-made Seltos (body code: SP2i) and the closely related Chinese version badged as the Kia KX3 (body code: SP2c). The SP2i and SP2c models are the low cost versions of Seltos to penetrate most emerging markets and is related with the second generation Hyundai ix25/Creta.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by DicKy

--
Hope, Maruti's role in the partnership doesn't include expertise in the interior plastic quality or shedding weight via minimising the number of nut/bolts and clips in the interior. Gifting rattles before the first oil change.---

It looks like the platform design will be from Toyota, exterior panels will differentiate between the two( 'top hat'), interiors could be different,vendor base will largely be from Maruti Suzuki's vendor base.

Built at Toyota's facility and supplied to Maruti Suzuki, this will follow the Suzuki ACross and Toyota Rav4 design philosophy.

[da_lowrider]

Originally Posted by DicKy

The Yaris for all it's mediocrity has a pretty solid build quality, and the Raize also seems to have pretty decent interior quality.

Are we sure about this anymore? The South African Yaris hatchback got 3 stars a bodyshell that was rated as unstable. 😔

We can't take safety for granted with Toyota either now, and yes the South African Etios scored 4 stars and had a result similar to the Indian Etios, so it might be possible to make the case that Indian Yaris might not perform so well.

It's a sad sad time.

[volkman10]

Rendered based on Suzuki ACross!

More details of the SUV will emerge in October, based on the Global Vitara.






Link

[saisree]

Is it for everyone or only me. It looks like a fusion of Brezza and Alto at the front and a hint of BRV at the back, Ballooned Swift as the side profile.

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by saisree

Is it for everyone or only me. It looks like a fusion of Brezza and Alto at the front and a hint of BRV at the back, Ballooned Swift as the side profile.

Dismiss those renders , it's just a Toyota Raize (Raize: Toyota's sub-4m Compact SUV) with Suzuki logos, even possible too considering their new relationship .

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by da_lowrider

Are we sure about this anymore? The South African Yaris hatchback got 3 stars a bodyshell that was rated as unstable. 😔

I meant the overall build quality. The sound insulation, door thud, body panel strength and overall ambience. It got the international model feel, something that eludes most sub 15 lakh cars, except for Hyundai.

Regarding the Yaris crash tests. Can't get around my head the different Yarises on sale, including all the Vios, Vitz, Ativs.
Remember the Yaris sedan getting 5 star in the ASEAN NCAP, and a couple of us Etios owners were commenting on the thread. The Yaris got 5 stars alright, but the A pillar was dangerously bent. Whereas the Etios with 4 stars, the A pillars and windshield were intact. So no comments on the Yaris crash worthiness.

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

Dismiss those renders , it's just a Toyota Raize with Suzuki logos, even possible too considering their new relationship .

Actually the rumours are more stronger of the Creta rival being a stretched Raize, rather than the next gen Vitara.

[volkman10]

Toyota and Maruti to jointly produce Creta challenger from 2022.

> The model will be manufactured at Toyota Kirloskar Motor’s (TKM) factory from 2022 in Plant 2 which will be given to Maruti to manage.




> Maruti and Toyota’s Creta-Seltos rival to be made at the Toyota plant from 2022
> Maruti and Toyota’s versions of the mid-size SUV to have distinct styling
> Vitara Brezza will continue to be made at Maruti’s plant in Haryana

The 4.3m-long SUV will be based on Toyota’s DNGA platform that is designed for emerging markets. And though Maruti and Toyota’s versions of the model will have common underpinnings, both will wear different ‘top hats’ with distinctive styling in line with their respective brand’s design languages.

The mainstay of the range will be Suzuki’s 1.5-litre petrol engine, though a punchier turbo-petrol offering could be on the cards as well. There is no talk of offering a diesel powertrain, for now.

Link