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Old 10th March 2020, 22:38   #301
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
Cant believe Honda has the gall to continue to peddle basically the same IVTECH engine here in India for over 15 years! And call yet another generation with the same internals Exciting!

The original 100hp vetch engine was launched here in 2005 and has undergone no fundamental changes in architecture or technology - no direct injection, no turbocharging, only incremental improvements. Although they have better engine technology in the rest of the world, the haughty engineers consider India too cheap and ignorant a market to deserve these. They are rewarded in turn with rapidly declining sales, minimal brand penetration among Gen-Y and Gen Z - basically an ageing brand bought by the 50+ group.
I'm not 50+ or even 40+ but give me the 1.5L naturally aspirated i-VTEC engine any day over a 3 cylinder 1.0L turbo engine that all other manufacturers are trying to palm off to current Gen-Y and Gen-Z buyers under the pretense of technology. No matter how hard they try to prove it, IMO it will never be a close to a free revving Honda naturally aspirated engine.

The Verna and Vento both will get 1.0L Turbo petrols and they are on par in figures vs the Honda's 1.5L i-VTEC that is 12 years old.

Same goes for Ford. They developed the 1.5L 3 cylinder dragon but it doesn't match the Honda 1.5L.

I for one am glad Honda decided that they shouldn't get the 1.0L 3 cylinder engine for the City in India.
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Old 10th March 2020, 22:38   #302
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

If Honda India has sense City will be priced sensibly. If not City would fail big time, what with the Creta around the corner and Seltos doing some more than solid numbers. Hyundai would leave no stone unturned in order to get back into the game with the new Creta! The New City hasn't exactly set the sales charts afire in Thailand.

Last edited by Durango Dude : 10th March 2020 at 22:40.
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Old 10th March 2020, 23:24   #303
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
...no fundamental changes in architecture or technology - no direct injection, no turbocharging, only incremental improvements.
Fully agree that *all* Honda India models should be uprated with class leading power. However the solution you suggest (GDi / FSi, turbo) is almost as bad as the problem, in my opinion.

I think Honda should aim for 140+hp and class-competitive fuel economy with 'legacy' tech. I appreciate Honda and Toyota for not jumping on the downsized turbo / FSi bandwagon for developing markets, and serving India with dependable powertrains, which can still run perfectly well on simple API SL oil. I understand that the market does not agree with me, and looks at new tech in cars as a positive without any downsides.

I also wish that Toyota and Honda had totally ignored the journalists' "feedback", and not neutered their CVTs with fake gears. This is another example where these two OEMs should have stood their ground.

Last edited by vipul_singh : 10th March 2020 at 23:53. Reason: Better readability
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Old 10th March 2020, 23:29   #304
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
Cant believe Honda has the gall to continue to peddle basically the same IVTECH engine here in India for over 15 years! And call yet another generation with the same internals Exciting!

The original 100hp vetch engine was launched here in 2005 and has undergone no fundamental changes in architecture or technology - no direct injection, no turbocharging, only incremental improvements. Although they have better engine technology in the rest of the world, the haughty engineers consider India too cheap and ignorant a market to deserve these. They are rewarded in turn with rapidly declining sales, minimal brand penetration among Gen-Y and Gen Z - basically an ageing brand bought by the 50+ group.
Trust me there is no replacement for displacement. Please drive 2.4 or 3 L N.A. petrol cars and see for yourself. If you can find any good condition older gen NA petrol cars like Kizashi 2.4, Outlander 2.4, Camry 2.4, Accord V6 3.0/3.5 in your circle then take an extended drive and see how relaxed, powerful and smooth those engines are. There is a reason why all European sports cars/super cars, American muscle cars/pick-up trucks come with V8, V10, V12 engines pushing 5 litre to 7 litre and probably beyond displacement.

Tiny 1.0 3-pot turbo'ed engines will not match refinement and unstressed nature of a good 1.5 NA petrol and Honda's ivtech is world renowned. You may find tons of other faults with Honda in India for other reasons though. I do, too. But we have to give credit where it's due. Don't know whether it's the lower tax concession or environmental concern, everyone is pushing these tiny vibrator motors down our throats.
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Old 11th March 2020, 09:43   #305
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
They are rewarded in turn with rapidly declining sales, minimal brand penetration among Gen-Y and Gen Z - basically an ageing brand bought by the 50+ group.
I am well below 40, and not only did I pick up the City iVTEC last year, but there are several BHPians who picked up the same car at the same time as me, who are also well below 40 Yes, the engine is old, but it still remains an outstanding engine and a benchmark in its category with solid mechanicals, performance and reliability. All three of which are much more important to me than mostly useless gizmos/features abounding in the newer cars of today which are clickbaits for the so called "Gen Y or Z". The free revving nature of a good NA engine is very different and to me, much more preferable, than a forced induction 1 liter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I'm not 50+ or even 40+ but give me the 1.5L naturally aspirated i-VTEC engine any day over a 3 cylinder 1.0L turbo engine that all other manufacturers are trying to palm off to current Gen-Y and Gen-Z buyers under the pretense of technology. No matter how hard they try to prove it, IMO it will never be a close to a free revving Honda naturally aspirated engine.
I for one am glad Honda decided that they shouldn't get the 1.0L 3 cylinder engine for the City in India.
Couldn't agree more with you on this. I would choose the 1.5 iVTEC any day over some of these 1 liter turbo-charged engines. I myself did not know what the fuss was all about with the Honda 1.5 till i started living with it over the past year and 10,000 odd kilometers. Supremely satisfied with the iVTEC engine and brings me a lot of smiles per mile. Could not be less bothered about so called "cutting edge technology" when a much older engine provides me with reliable, flawless and unstressed performance.

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 11th March 2020 at 09:46.
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Old 11th March 2020, 10:03   #306
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Trust me there is no replacement for displacement. Please drive 2.4 or 3 L N.A. petrol cars and see for yourself. If you can find any good condition older gen NA petrol cars like Kizashi 2.4, Outlander 2.4, Camry 2.4, Accord V6 3.0/3.5 in your circle then take an extended drive and see how relaxed, powerful and smooth those engines are. There is a reason why all European sports cars/super cars, American muscle cars/pick-up trucks come with V8, V10, V12 engines pushing 5 litre to 7 litre and probably beyond displacement.
Wow, impressed to see the torrent of support for the Honda engine strategy for India. Trust me, I have owned and driven many NA petrol engines - A Toyota 3.0 Petrol in the Camry, a Totyota 4.7 V8 petrol in the 4-runner and a Honda 3.5 Petrol in the Odyssey. All those engines were excellent (but were really terrible on fuel economy). However, I am total convert to Turbe petrols after owning the 2017 BMW 530i. The 2.0 litre engine there is more powerful, has better pick-up, more low-end torque and better high speed manners than the Toyota and Honda V6 engines of 3.0 litre and 3.5 litre capacity.

Maybe it is the difference that BMW has made due to their engineering prowess and also due to the natural advance of technology being a newer engine. We also all know how good VW/Skoda's 1.8 TSI and 2.0 TSI are.

I agree very small turbo-petrols are not as good, I do remember the terrible lag in the Ford Ecoboost 1.0 petrol. However, I have a feeling that the upcoming Renault 1.3 Turbo-petrol, the Mahindra M-Stallion 1.5 and 2.0 litre petrols and the VW 1.5 TSI will put an end to this debate - they all have the potential and promise to fully and finally bury the NA engines of Maruti, Honda and Toyota.

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 11th March 2020 at 10:08.
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Old 11th March 2020, 10:21   #307
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
Maybe it is the difference that BMW has made due to their engineering prowess and also due to the natural advance of technology being a newer engine. We also all know how good VW/Skoda's 1.8 TSI and 2.0 TSI are.

I agree very small turbo-petrols are not as good, I do remember the terrible lag in the Ford Ecoboost 1.0 petrol. However, I have a feeling that the upcoming Renault 1.3 Turbo-petrol, the Mahindra M-Stallion 1.5 and 2.0 litre petrols and the VW 1.5 TSI will put an end to this debate - they all have the potential and promise to fully and finally bury the NA engines of Maruti, Honda and Toyota.
I think the problem is with these heavily downsized Turbo petrols.

The 530i is also downsized vs the older 3.0L inline 6 but as you said BMW engineering prowess with twin scroll or twin turbos compensates hugely for that.

Also if you see the problem is not with 4 cylinder Turbos like the 1.5L TSI VW. But the issue lies more with these diminutive 3 cylinder 1000ccc engines which are coming in place of 1.5L and 1.6L NA engines.

The 3 pot engines are neither able to deliver on efficiency or outright performance or fun to drive factor. They can't get higher torques and have low end lag. They only excel in mid range and run out of breath even higher up the rev band.

I also don't have a problem with the 530i 2L engine, 2.0L TSI.
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Old 12th March 2020, 12:20   #308
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Hope Honda has considered the fact that the Facelifted Verna is launching just a week later and has some good things baked in so it does not look pale in comparison:
2020 Hyundai Spirited Verna Features Revealed: Verna vs City is the Sedan Battle of the Year! - URL

Less than a week to go for the action packed season of car launches to follow...City, followed by Creta followed by Verna...

Suddenly Car Launches are giving a competition to Mobile phone launches
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:47   #309
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Petrol engine and variant confirmation.

Powertrain: 1.5L i-VTEC rated for 119 HP @ 6600 RPM, mated to manual and CVT gearbox.

Variants:
  • V, V CVT
  • VX, VX CVT
  • ZX, ZX CVT
Name:  Capture.JPG
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Size:  77.6 KB

Name:  Capture2.JPG
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Size:  73.3 KB
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Old 13th March 2020, 04:17   #310
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Only 3 variants. No SV variant. That's a surprise as I know many people who bought the SV variant including myself. It was the perfect VFM variant in the line up. Strange omission.
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Old 13th March 2020, 07:21   #311
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

With V MT being the base, it means the starting price would beat everything in the neighborhood! Have they lost faith & given up on selling 5000 copies each month?


This one would have my money if they price right. 8.5 till 12.5 would be the sweet spot as H badge and especially the City brand still commands respect and trust. The new design is very euro/chic, the engines are just fine and so does the space - only thing to double click on would be the build quality.
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Old 13th March 2020, 08:25   #312
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Attachment 1979381

Attachment 1979382

Interesting. The wheelbase for the Indian version is the same as last gen model. The new gen launched in Thailand has a slightly shorter wheelbase. Also, the Gross weight has increased over the 4th gen car by almost 40kg. Hoping this increased weight results in the car feeling sturdier like the earlier models.

Fingers crossed.
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Old 13th March 2020, 08:36   #313
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Good to see that, contrary to the current trend, the gross weight has gone up by 40-50 kg across variants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
8.5 till 12.5 would be the sweet spot as H badge and especially the City brand still commands respect and trust.
Too optimistic buddy. Price range of the current City is more like 10.5-14.5 lakhs, roughly 2 lakhs off your expectations. I'd be happy if they launch this at similar prices without any further hike.
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:00   #314
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by R4m4kr15hn4n View Post
Interesting. The wheelbase for the Indian version is the same as last gen model. The new gen launched in Thailand has a slightly shorter wheelbase.
Not only the wheelbase, increasing it seems to have increased the length too.

Wheelbase (Thai) - 2,589
Wheelbase (India) - 2,600

Length (Thai) - 4,553
Length (India) - 4,569

Ground clearance should also be higher now, OR the Indian City is riding on 16 inch wheels or something because the height has increased as well.

Height (Thai) - 1,467
Height (India) - 1,489
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:26   #315
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Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Not only the wheelbase, increasing it seems to have increased the length too.

Wheelbase (Thai) - 2,589
Wheelbase (India) - 2,600

Length (Thai) - 4,553
Length (India) - 4,569

Ground clearance should also be higher now, OR the Indian City is riding on 16 inch wheels or something because the height has increased as well.
It is understandable that overall length and GC are adjusted as per India, presumably by tweaking the bumpers, wheels and suspension. But how is it possible that they have managed to alter the wheelbase? That is a major engineering change and canít be done at a whim. It is also highly unlikely that they designed the City with two wheelbases, with such little difference between the two. Something seems amiss here.
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