[smsrini]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Scorpio`s wheelbase is a tiny bit longer and the vehicle is taller. Safari is wider and longer.

perhaps that explains why the safari was more stable and did not buck as much.

[tanbeamer]

Originally Posted by GTO

My 2 cents on the Gravitas = Safari debate.

1. As I'd posted earlier, before the announcement:


2. I think it's an excellent move & fully support it. Brand Safari is worth 100 crores at the minimum & has instant recognition. Now, Tata doesn't have another big SUV in development as far as I know. So why wait another 5 years to use the brand, if & when that next SUV comes? Instead, paste it on a ready product that is quite butch-looking too, mind you.

3. It could also have been an afterthought decision taken recently to revive Harrier / Gravitas sales as the Harrier's market performance has been way lower than Tata's expectations.

4. I can guarantee you that 10X more people will look at Gravitas advertisements now that it is branded as the "Safari".

What the heck is the point of having ammunition in your bag if you don't use it? This is an EXCELLENT move from the POV of marketing IMHO. I also understand the POV of purists & those who are passionate about the Safari brand, but the fact is, purist values don't sell cars.

Lastly, for whatever it is worth, the Safari 4x4 was a terrible offroader. So, purists need to calm down a bit .

Yes, sir, I happened to speak to many of non-enthusiast friends most of them were really upbeat about the fact that the Safari is returning. It seems to be a very good move IMHO.

[RK79]

Originally Posted by RoadAtlas

Tiago was a reworked Indica (/Bolt). Nexon was built on Zest's platform with revamped Tiago engines (petrol one having the lowest torque in the turbo segment, lower than engines with lower displacement).

Zest and Bolt are based on Vista/Manza platforms. Tiago and Nexon are new platforms. Hexa is based on Aria platform.Indica platform is no longer used. Tiago has a downgraded Nexon petrol engine. These are the facts as far as I know, please correct if I am wrong.
I feel Tata did not do justice to Safari brand,by naming Harrier extended version as Safari. They just want to use the name and ends up killing it evantually. By naming a 7 seater as Safari, they just chose not to bring a hard core off roader in the future under this iconic name. A lame attempt by the marketing team.

[ashutoshb]

The Safari as a brand deserved an all new vehicle. And even it was to be used on an extended Harrier, at least a different face would have done some justice to the name.

Set aside bhpians and other auto enthusiasts who know about Gravitas in detail, imagine the scene when a common man enters the Tata showroom.

On the left is a Harrier, a now established brand. And on the right is a Harrier with two more seats and a different rear end, but it is to be called a Safari.

Imagining another scene. Me driving. In the rear view mirror I see a Harrier asking for a pass. I move aside. When it passes, I say to myself. "Oh, my bad. It was a Safari!"

The pundits at Tata know better behind the logic. And they obviously know something which most of us cant figure out.

[diwakarmuthu]

The 'Safari' brand was legendary for its time. Obviously once Tata's focus shifted to small vehicles, it just existed primarily for pure enthusiasts.

But, would the new Safari speak the bonding of 'Make your own Road" or "Reclaim your life" is something that we need to see.

It all boils down to two things - pricing and 4x4. The latter is kept for another day, don't know when it would come.

From pricing perspective, if they can keep it competitive, then Tata definitely has a winner on their hands. I am assuming with the build and quality issues starting to get sorted from Tata, I hope they provide a clean product first up!

[iamahunter]

I find it amusing to see the hate comments.

The Safari was accused for not being able to keep up with time and TATA was bad mouthed for not modifying the safari design. Its engine was accused of being underpowered.

Now when its making a comeback with a new design, its cursed again. I mean what do you guys want!
We all know that TATA does update its designs and features more frequently as compared to earlier days. It may get the 4x4 eventually.

If I get a chance, I will buy the new and updated Safari.

[CapKoura]

Originally Posted by iamahunter

I find it amusing to see the hate comments.

The Safari was accused for not being able to keep up with time and TATA was bad mouthed for not modifying the safari design. Its engine was accused of being underpowered.

Now when its making a comeback with a new design, its cursed again. I mean what do you guys want!

The problem most people seem to have isn't with TATA launching the Gravitas as the Safari, but them deciding to do so at the last moment, as a last ditch attempt at creating hype.

TATA seemed to be in hibernation with regards to the Gravitas, with it being production ready a long time ago. After the XUV's test mules being spotted all over the country, the hype and buzz surrounding the XUV was much higher than the Gravitas. Also, news arrived that the Gravitas would be missing out on quite some kit.

Then things started happening. Citroen started the C5 Aircross testing on our roads, the Hector and Hector Plus received updates to make them more appealing packages, the Compass facelift was generating excitement in the general public and was launched today, the new Fortuners were launched (not the same segment, but an natural contender for anyone looking to upgrade).

All this led to TATA trying to salvage something by renaming the Gravitas as Safari. Now, the Safari holds a lot of sentimental value for enthusiasts and regular folks alike. It being used as a mere lifeline by TATA instead of a proper relaunch didn't sit right with people, mainly due to the Gravitas having already failed to impress early on. Personally I think that this was a somewhat smart move, but TATA's notorious habit of launching a product and then adding features to it is frustrating to say the least.

[chhotagujju]

I think this is a good move by Tata Motors. 'SAFARI' as a brand has a very good emotional connect with Indian car buyers and this will only help them sell the 7 seater in higher numbers.
As far as the 4x4 is concerned, let us wait till they announce the specs of the vehicle before jumping to conclusions.
Only thing that matters here is the pricing strategy that Tata Motors will adopt. Better pricing will help them get much more sales before the new XUV or Scorpio is released.

[arjab]

Originally Posted by RK79

Zest and Bolt are based on Vista/Manza platforms. Tiago and Nexon are new platforms. Hexa is based on Aria platform.Indica platform is no longer used. Tiago has a downgraded Nexon petrol engine. These are the facts as far as I know, please correct if I am wrong

Before the common modular architecture, which now underpins the Altroz, TML had four active platforms.

X0 : Indica, Indigo, Indigo Marina, Indigo CS, Indigo XL, later on Tiago, Tigor. Tiago and Tigor came with new upper bodies. Wheelbase of Tiago and Tigor are identical to original Indica and Indigo as the platform hard points were not changed (it's a very expensive affair)

X1 : Vista, Manza, Manza CS(known as Zest), Bolt, Nexon, Nexon EV

X2 : Aria, HEXA

X3 : Nano, Nano Gen X with openable tailgate

The Sumo and the Sumo Grande were a separate line. It was made at Pune, commercial vehicle plant. The antecedents of the Sumo chassis can be traced back to Tatamobile 206/Sierra/Estate lineage.

The Safari chassis was a heavily reworked and beefed up Sumo. The Safari was also TML's, (then TELCO), first car to have been entirely designed via CAD / CAE. It was also the first TML vehicle to feature panel doors. A British design house was very closely involved in the original Safari's design & development.

[r0nit7]

Looking at all the traction the Gravitas/Safari is getting, I think Tata missed a trick by not naming Harrier *Sierra* (Please don't kill me ).

But I guess, we might see an uptick in Harrier sales for just being a 5 seater Safari.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by arjab

X2 : Aria, HEXA

The Sumo and the Sumo Grande were a separate line. It was made at Pune, commercial vehicle plant. The antecedents of the Sumo chassis can be traced back to Tatamobile 206/Sierra/Estate lineage.

The Safari chassis was a heavily reworked and beefed up Sumo. The Safari was also TML's, (then TELCO), first car to have been entirely designed via CAD / CAE. It was also the first TML vehicle to feature panel doors. A British design house was very closely involved in the original Safari's design & development.

AFAIK all the Tata UVs from the venerable Telcoline to the Safari Storme were built on the X2 platform modified from time to time.

Tata Telcoline

The OmegaArc is simply the replacement for the X2 platform based on the JLR D8 which itself was derived out of the Ford EUCD platform.

The H7X has always been the new Safari AFAIK. Here is my first reaction H7X (Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs)

It addressed the primary complaints about the Safari namely weight, older platform, turning radius and dated looks.

For those who think it unfair that the looks have changed significantly all I say is their attempt to retain the look while changing the interiors (Storme) was not well received so they got a completely new look.

Those who think it was never a lifestyle vehicle if "Reclaim your Life" does not resonate lifestyle vehicle I dont know what will.

Lastly it was never a hard core offroader and the 4x4 demand is very so. So low that there was a waiting period and for the Scorpio it was made to order. In this case I think its a missed opportunity as it would have added to the image rather than sell in numbers.

So IMHO Tata has done its best for the Safari brand and while they did get sidetracked it was intended as a Safari replacement. The Aria line never took off and the Hexa was a valiant attempt to resurrect it but then ultimately if you look at the OmegaArc plans the Hexa simple does not feature. It was a capable car though with that awesome automatic and the DICOR 2.2/VARICOR was an excellent engine with life and character something I have not felt in the MULTIJET 2(Have tried the 140 PS one but not the 170 PS one). My only wish is that they had used a derivative on the H7X and a 4WD but then you cant have everything.

Lastly I am looking forward to the new Safari and the wait has already been too long.

Now comparing to the Scorpio of yesteryear the Safari was much more spacious(the bench seat could double up as a proper bed) and the ride was miles ahead(there is only so much that a WW2 vintage Willys platform could be stretched to). The XUV too was cramped and unexciting to drive IMHO. I cant comment about the next generation but after driving the Harrier I feel Mahindra needs a miracle to come up to the same level of refinement now that all niggles too are addressed

[ph03n!x]

Close your eyes. Yes, yes, play along and close your eyes!

Now imagine you doing your usual drive - in your car, in the driver seat, in your usual roads to some place nice to have a coffee with friends.

Singing along your favorite track, you stop at a signal. And you see this pull up behind you. What car is it?

This guy came in too fast behind you at the next signal, and you hoped and prayed he's gonna stop in time.


This impatient fella who pulled up behind you at the next signal loves to honk the second the light turns green!

With me so far? If you are, then you didn't close you eyes - but that's fine, I didn't think you would But do stay with me a little while more, we have 3 more signals to go.

You see this pull up behind you at the next stop, and wished you'd gotten yourself one when it lasted...


...but when this pulled over in the next signal right behind you, you know you still can - though it is not the same thing (in many a ways)

See where this is headed? Now tell me...

This is pulling up behind you - is this a Harrier or "Safari"?

Safari was, is and will always be an icon - no two ways about it. Those who think no one bought it when it was still on sale - ask those who bought it why they did. It was an aspirational product that was priced higher than contemporary offerings and did not have the "kit" that others had - but for what it had, the ride, presence, the big car feel - nothing came near for a very long time. It was Tata's fault that they did not evolve this icon when they should have, and instead killed it. Bring it back as a proper RWD/ AWD 7 seater with the same long bonnet and rounded rectangularish lights, with a proper fit, finish, kit and the same ride - it will probably do better than Harrier. While at it, leave the spare wheel at the back door

The Harrier is a fantastic car - maybe a tad bigger for a 5 seater. And the Gravitas should be what the Harrier should have been from the get go. But a bigger Harrier being called Safari?

An iconic car is NOT something that you can mistake for another. Unless they are changing the face of the Gravitas to be retro-Safari-isque, it will always be a Gravitas. Not a Safari.

Now I am hoping and praying that the Sierra nameplate does not get diluted...

[armaan_singh]

Bad idea as per me, the name "Gravitas" had a lot more going for it in terms of finesse, also no matter how good it was , the Safari was primarily a sub 15 lac car, and going by the Harrier's pricing I'm sure the new Safari would topple it as well, hence now essentially the Safari would be more expensive than the current flagship.

Call me ignorant but I wouldn't want to spend 25 big ones on a car and then spend time explaining family that it's the same name but a different car.

[DicKy]

What is in a name they say

Turns out it does.

A few days back it was just a Harrier 5+2 seater...gravity..casino..hxx something..

Now it is the Safari, and everyone is going berserk, positive or negative.
Guess the marketing guys did their job this time, creating excitement over the product.

BUT

IMO, they should have done some differentiating. It is almost like overnight, they realised they were left with no legacy brands. In the pursuit of burning bridges, it almost looked like they started making cars from 2016. a.k.a Tiago. In a time when XUV500 and Scorpio were going to enjoy brand continuity.

Ofcourse am going to crib over the fact that they didn't save the Safari brand name for a proper large SUV, then again it is futile to think TML will ever launch a BOF PV again, let alone 4x4.

IMHO Tata should have

1. Changed the front end styling. Atleast some soft parts, grilles, lights etc.

2. Give it an independent rear suspension with comfort oriented tuning.

3. AWD - Now before anyone says "who will buy it?", "only 1% would buy it", "oh,yeah. When was the last time you used AWD/4x4?" .....Mahindra could have launched the Thar with a 4x2 option and the 1.5l diesel engine. People would have still flocked to buy it, even in larger numbers. Atleast initially they are trying to create/sustain a brand.
No one asks for AWD in a Creta, Seltos or Hector.
But Harrier owners and fans does.
Atleast one variant would do wonders to brand image, or else stop the pedigree talk.

Am going to wager that they will make the B pillar body coloured, and make the C/D pillars glossy black to have a greenhouse effect, and name the Blackbird (creta rival) as the Sierra

[IP_Man]

'New Safari', are you serious TATA? What is the correlation?

I don't think people will accept bloated up Harrier as 'New Safari'.

Old safari was rugged 'Body on frame', 'Rear wheel drive', Capable four wheel drive with low transfer ratio whereas Gravitas is FWD, monocoque and only front wheel drive.

It seems, it is Tatas desperate and pathetic marketing strategy to milk out heritage of old Safari to sell gravitas but it won't bring numbers to them because people know what Safari is and there are plenty Dicor and Storme on the road.

If Mahindra can revamp old Scorpio, why you can not Tata?