Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th January 2021, 12:50   #1156
Senior - BHPian
 
CARDEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NCR
Posts: 3,044
Thanked: 2,067 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Thanks @Reinhard
But lot of people compare/ buy cars based on price than class/ segment. Once they have shortlisted few they reject one or other on basis of various parameters.
CARDEEP is offline  
Old 25th January 2021, 12:53   #1157
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 155
Thanked: 302 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy View Post

If Tata has done its research properly and have built a good product with good service, they can easily price Safari at 2 lakh premium over Harrier, even more.

For the right target customer, a 2 lakh delta over the Harrier shouldn't matter.
But yeah for everyone else, Tata should price the Safari at a premium over the Harrier, but no more than INR 50,000 (25,000 for each extra seat). Else, it will be a dismal flop.
Yes. They can charge a premium of 2 lakhs but only for the "right target customer". So was the Storme, so was the Hexa. Hexa's ride quality and the auto box was better than cars costing double the money. That includes Fortuner also. But the sales figures dont represent such product uniqueness.

So, the pricing will be crucial. Lets see some numbers:-

Current XUV500 W9 AT diesel, 7 seater, costs 22.2 in Bangalore
Current Harrier XZA+ diesel, 5 seater costs 25.7 in Bangalore.

So, the difference between XZA+ and Harrier is roughly 3.5 Lakhs.
Lets say Safari, 7 seater, prices a premium of 1.5 Lakhs.

So, the difference between Safari 7 seater and current XUV500 7 seater will be roughly 3.5 + 1.5 = 5 Lakhs.

Even if new gen XUV500 is kept at a premium of 1 Lakh over older XUV, version to version, the price difference between XUV and Safari would be around 4 Lakhs. And the XUV500 is a second generation. So, expect it to have better ride quality than its older generation. Not to mention, the ADAS features, petrol engines etc etc.

Now next gen XUV500 will be launched around June-July times and the deliveries will start right away. On the other hand, the deliveries for Safari is expected around March. So, the difference is that of 3 months between the products coming to market.

The interior quality will be same of Harrier, just that the dashboard colours are now whitish. Same goes for the seats. The leather quality will be same, just the colours will be different.

P.S : I have pre-booked Safari. But the price difference of over 4 lakhs with new gen XUV500 and the on-road timelines differing by only 3 months.
I am confused and other actual buyer's will also be confused. All these if Tata becomes greedy and adds a premium of 1.5-2 lakhs over Harrier.
turbo_delight is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 14:45   #1158
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: VGA<->BLR
Posts: 563
Thanked: 1,595 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Current XUV500 W9 AT diesel, 7 seater, costs 22.2 in Bangalore
Current Harrier XZA+ diesel, 5 seater costs 25.7 in Bangalore.

So, the difference between XZA+ and Harrier is roughly 3.5 Lakhs.
Harrier XZA+ should be compared to Xuv500 W11(OPT) as both come with 6 airbags. W11(OPT) costs 24 lak on road Bangalore, so the difference with Harrier XZA+ is 1.7 laks. Harrier XTA+ is not available which would have been the comparable variant with XUV500 W9AT.
damodar is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 14:54   #1159
BHPian
 
Candy$Cars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Allahabad
Posts: 73
Thanked: 343 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Yes. They can charge a premium of 2 lakhs but only for the "right target customer". So was the Storme, so was the Hexa. Hexa's ride quality and the auto box was better than cars costing double the money. That includes Fortuner also. But the sales figures dont represent such product uniqueness.

So, the pricing will be crucial. Lets see some numbers:-

Current XUV500 W9 AT diesel, 7 seater, costs 22.2 in Bangalore
Current Harrier XZA+ diesel, 5 seater costs 25.7 in Bangalore.
If you are comparing the top models, w11 opt AT is the top model of XUV5OO which costs 24.04 on road bangalore (as per carwale). Still cheaper than the Harrier XZA+ but sure the difference in your calculation reduces by quite a lot!

Also, I feel the new gen XUV will be anywhere 26-27.5 on road bangalore. I guess the XUV and the Safari will be evenly matched, give or take 20-25k. This is my gut feeling, I don't have any proof or rationale behind this.
Candy$Cars is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 14:58   #1160
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Chennai
Posts: 47
Thanked: 90 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post

So, the pricing will be crucial. Lets see some numbers:-

Current XUV500 W9 AT diesel, 7 seater, costs 22.2 in Bangalore
Current Harrier XZA+ diesel, 5 seater costs 25.7 in Bangalore.

So, the difference between XZA+ and Harrier is roughly 3.5 Lakhs.
Lets say Safari, 7 seater, prices a premium of 1.5 Lakhs.

So, the difference between Safari 7 seater and current XUV500 7 seater will be roughly 3.5 + 1.5 = 5 Lakhs.

Even if new gen XUV500 is kept at a premium of 1 Lakh over older XUV, version to version, the price difference between XUV and Safari would be around 4 Lakhs. And the XUV500 is a second generation. So, expect it to have better ride quality than its older generation. Not to mention, the ADAS features, petrol engines etc etc.
Ideal comparison should be between harrier XZA+ and XUV500 W11(O) AT. Let's compare their current ex-showroom prices.

Harrier XZA+ - 20.25L INR
XUV500 W11(O) AT - 19.53L INR

Actual price difference is 72K.

With expected improvement in quality and feature list, XUV500's top variant price difference with current model will definitely be more than 1 lac. I hope there will be neck and neck price difference between Safari and XUV500 across variants.
bwildrd#1 is offline  
Old 25th January 2021, 15:00   #1161
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 50
Thanked: 362 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

As someone who loves and lives cars (yes, just like that TeamBHP sticker), especially SUVs given my 6'3" tall, hefty build, it is absolutely mind numbingly offensive to me seeing senior fellow BHP-ians writing pompously how the Safari was ALWAYS a superior car to the Scorpio and how the Scorpio was ALWAYS the 'cruder' choice, meant always to keep ticking in "Tier 2" cities and never really a match for the Safari.

I mean, elitist much?

I'm posting a simple L-R comparo, all photos taken from TeamBHP official reviews of the 2015 Safari Storme and the 2014 Mahindra Scorpio:

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-picsart_012501.58.03.jpg

Let's forget about the god awful, unchanged, boring design of the Safari dash, the missing climate control in a 15L+ vehicle (at the time), the MID from the 90s, missing cruise control, missing reversing camera and many other amenities that premium hatchbacks of the time had started offering- the sheer gall by Tata to even pass this off as a "new, refreshed" launch is enough for me to dismiss away the Safari with extreme prejudice. The Scorpio actually looks and feels like it belongs in that decade.

Even mechanically, the Safari consistently had better figures on paper than the Scorpio, but on road, I don't know whether it was owing to the gear ratios or the tuning, the Scorpio was always the peppier, agile one of the two. Having driven and sat in both of them travelling from Leh-Kargil-Srinagar, I can vouch for this personally, as do other drivers and owners of the region. No higher endorsement or praise is possible.

Mahindra showed consistent commitment to refreshing and improving their product year by year while Tata slacked and slept. No surprise then that Tata canned the Safari altogether.

Really though, kudos to Tata for upping their game with regards to design, quality and safety. It's incredible how far they've come in the past half decade and it speaks volumes to their rejuvenated commitment and focus to their products and their customers. I believe the JLR acquisition had a big role to play in this awakening of theirs and it makes me incredibly happy as a car enthusiast!

But again, some BHP-ians are raving about the new Safari while simultaneously dissing the Scorpio.

How. Do. You. Even. Know?!

Mahindra only recently left everyone mouths agape, eyes popping, drooling, with their 2020 Thar. People who knew nothing about cars knew about the Thar. People who didn't know what the difference between jeep and Jeep is, knew about the Thar. Everyone secretly wanted one. So, SO many bought one that Mahindra (Mahindra!) is having trouble ramping up production to keep up with demand.

But somehow in the eyes of these Safari fanboys, the Mahindra Scorpio is already being written off as being so obviously beneath the Safari (reminder- neither is launched yet) that the XUV5OO or not even that will be able to hold a candle to, and be the true competitor to the Safari now because of..reasons, apparently.

Why? Isn't it possible that Mahindra is going to make a world class product with the Scorpio? That interior quality will be a significant step up from what it is now, like they did year by year before this? That they're going to sort out ride and handling with the newer, longer, wider, more squat-stanced Scorpio with ESP and other driver aids, just like a clattery, boomy Thar became a smooth, refined, technologically adept 2020 Thar?

The only real sensible argument is that the new Safari is a 7-seat monocoque crossover just like the XUV and so it makes sense to compare them regarding driving dynamics and overall intent as a product. And it's true- that does make sense but nowhere in that argument does the Scorpio suddenly become a worse product by ANY metric. It'll have its own strengths like it's always had and will build upon them, just like it did when the rivalry existed between them eventually resulting in the humiliating decimation of India's first homegrown premium SUV.

Rant over.

The new Safari looks nice in pictures. Can't wait to take it for a spin!

Last edited by Singh101 : 25th January 2021 at 15:05.
Singh101 is offline   (24) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 16:56   #1162
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pune
Posts: 262
Thanked: 448 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cessna182 View Post
Till 2 years ago people could buy a very comfortable Automatic Hexa for 20 lakhs on the road with a Harman sound system, a 400 NM torque engine and a superb suspension. Today a 5 seater Harrier costs more.
Hit the nail on head! Double wishbone front suspension, Body on frame chassis and Rear wheel drive, all these with best ride comfort on any terrain and Top of the world seat experience.

Hexa was one of the reasons for Harrier to not pick up sales in its early days. Hexa any day looks atleast half a size if not full size bigger than Harrier. The same would have continued with Gravitas/Safari. For Safari to gain any traction in terms of sales, Hexa had to take a fall and it did. I understand, no one bothered much when Hexa was around, but Tata had started deleting features immediately after Harrier launch to propose a value in Harrier. Hexa low and mid variants where quite kitted compared to Innova. The biggest grouse with Hexa was its weight and steering due to which it always felt like driving a larger vehicle whereas Innova felt very agile in comparison.

Nowadays, we are discussing 15-22 lacs price bracket in same context we were discussing 9-15 lacs in 2017-18 period. OEMs are responsible for this, as they have to fit hatchback, premium hatchback, compact sedan, sub 4m SUV, compact SUV, premium SUV, lifestyle SUV, MUV all under price bracket of 25 lacs ex showroom. When we as a customer start with 10-12 lacs budget, we knowingly stretch it by couple of lacs to get into that next segment car or get ourselves fully loaded variant for premium feel. So Creta(just an example) customer ends up with 19-22 lacs budget for that big ticket purchase and too feel good about ones investment(satisfaction). We all know how majority are less interested in underlying mechanicals or structural rigidity or advanced engineering giving ample opportunities for OEM to book more profits.

Customer in Harrier and Safari price range love to show-off their purchase so they need those features which can be easily demonstrated to their folks if they really need to take a pie out of Koreans share. Innova customer is different use case hard to explain and understand.

Last edited by varunswnt : 25th January 2021 at 17:07.
varunswnt is offline  
Old 25th January 2021, 19:04   #1163
Senior - BHPian
 
Venkatesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 2,757
Thanked: 9,824 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

The stage is all set for Safari launch, 24hrs from now for the unveil

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-20210125_190245.jpg

Link
Venkatesh is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 19:24   #1164
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Nil
Posts: 349
Thanked: 2,174 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by varunswnt View Post
Hit the nail on head! Double wishbone front suspension, Body on frame chassis and Rear wheel drive, all these with best ride comfort on any terrain and Top of the world seat experience.

Hexa was one of the reasons for Harrier to not pick up sales in its early days. Hexa any day looks atleast half a size if not full size bigger than Harrier. Innova customer is different use case hard to explain and understand.
Agreed about the change in price bands in just 2 to 3 years.

My point about the price was for people who can afford a 25 or 30 lakh car without a loan. Yes, many of them won't be bothered by an additional 10 lakhs. Even on this forum there are examples of people who started out with a 20 lakh budget but bought a 60 lakh car in the end. For those who need to finance the purchase, the difference between 30 and 40 lakhs is quite a bit.

I am not sure about this hypothesis, but most consumers who can buy a 25+ lakh car without financing are not very price sensitive. They will look for a segment above if it appeals to their tastes.

I hope the Safari gets the success it deserves.
Cessna182 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 21:58   #1165
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bombay
Posts: 414
Thanked: 222 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Manufacturer pricing strategy is steered by the buyer segment they wish to target. There will be some models that they will specially put out of reach for 90% of the demographic. This would be more to show that they are moving up in the game and want to be perceived as exclusive.

Another consideration is developing new architectures, tooling for better fit and finish, etc does incur a large capital expenditure which unfortunately the consumer ends up coughing up for.

The discussion on XUV or the old Safari is also a fair one. There is no way to tell which one was or is better. It was purely a matter of personal preference and what one would expect out of their new vehicle. For some its just outright performance or driving dynamics. For others it could be its feature list and refresh. No clear winner and its all about what fits each of us.

Looking forward to see what Tata Motors has in store for us in terms of car and pricing.
NevGin is offline  
Old 25th January 2021, 22:18   #1166
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 37
Thanked: 233 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Tata Safari spotted at dealership stockyard before launch:

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafaridealeryardspiedinteriorsexteriorssuvlaunchprice7.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafaridealeryardspiedinteriorsexteriorssuvlaunchprice5.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafaridealeryardspiedinteriorsexteriorssuvlaunchprice11.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafaridealeryardspiedinteriorsexteriorssuvlaunchprice8.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafaridealeryardspiedinteriorsexteriorssuvlaunchprice91227x1125.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafaridealeryardspiedinteriorsexteriorssuvlaunchprice61068x601.jpg

Name:  2021tatasafaridealeryardspiedinteriorsexteriorssuvlaunchprice3768x432.jpg
Views: 4030
Size:  71.6 KB

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafarispiedrear960x720.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafariinteriorspiedcentreconsole960x720.jpg

Name:  2021TataSafariinteriorspieddoor540x720.jpg
Views: 3989
Size:  40.0 KB

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafariinteriorspiedseating960x720.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-2021tatasafariinteriorspiedinterior.jpg

Credit: Motorbeam amd Rushlane
Beelzebub is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 22:40   #1167
BHPian
 
vigneshkumar31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Port Blair
Posts: 518
Thanked: 2,553 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I guess the pricing shocker and ensuing debate is primarily because of the swift and silent uptick in prices of whole segments over the past few years.

The truth is while we have been following the car launches and keeping track of the Indian Car scene all this time ,not much attention is paid to.the actual drive away pricing unless you are actually in the market for a definite purchase and buying the car.

Previous gen Safari owners like myself who are considering to upgrade to the new Safari have been shaken out of our hiatus violently. We have been blissfully enjoying our car for the past many years and now when we are looking to upgrade to the new Safari we suddenly realise that we need to shell out twice what we paid for our existing Safari. This is also applicable to others who picked up their last purchase of any car prior 2015- 2016 from the 10-15 lakh "premium" segment.

Well this is what it is and 20 is the new 12, I guess I'm wide awake now.

P.S: Bangalore guys and friends from other parts of the country our discussion gets brutally skewed if we start quoting random numbers of on road pricing from carwale. One issue is the disparity in road taxing structure state wise and the other is the insurance premium that car wale happily puts up randomly based on dealer quote. Some additional accessories are also included in car wale car dekho etc "on road pricing". So it would be useful if we all stick to ex show room pricing for easy comparison and common discussion while I totally empathise with you for the obnoxious tax we pay over and above that ,especially in some states more than the other.

My heart bleeds with you. But ex show room price numbers please

Last edited by vigneshkumar31 : 25th January 2021 at 22:42.
vigneshkumar31 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 25th January 2021, 22:42   #1168
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Pune
Posts: 393
Thanked: 897 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
All these if Tata becomes greedy and adds a premium of 1.5-2 lakhs over Harrier.
Exactly my thoughts. In the battle of XUV vs Safari, the initial high price of Harrier would bring the downfall of Safari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by damodar View Post
Harrier XZA+ should be compared to Xuv500 W11(OPT) as both come with 6 airbags. W11(OPT) costs 24 lak on road Bangalore, so the difference with Harrier XZA+ is 1.7 laks. Harrier XTA+ is not available which would have been the comparable variant with XUV500 W9AT.
I will try and quote OTR Pune prices for both. W11 AT is available at around 23.39L whereas the Harrier XZ+ AT DT is available at 24.75L (Both Cardekho prices). Take into account a 2L price increase for Safari in ex showroom terms= around 2.5L increase for the OTR price for top end version. So a corresponding top end Safari would be priced at 27.25L.

Assuming a 1-1.5L price increase for XUV500, the top end diesel would be available at 25L. This leaves a gap of a whopping 2.25L rupees! So basically Mahindra would be providing a better equipped car, with more powerful engines, but at a lower final price by about 2-2.5L rupees? The writing is on the wall for Safari, and honestly, I blame the (price of)Harrier for it.
07CR is offline  
Old 25th January 2021, 23:17   #1169
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Chennai
Posts: 42
Thanked: 101 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
All New Tata Safari completely revealed ahead of launch...
Can we retrofit the electronic parking alone in harrier for my one kidney please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07CR View Post
Exactly my thoughts. In the battle of XUV vs Safari, the initial high price of Harrier would bring the downfall of Safari...
These are all superficial numbers. If Thar from 7.5 lakhs have gone up by almost 60-80% for the new generation, next gen XUV 500 will be well ahead of 25 lakhs OTR. I guess with new bigger Scorpio in place will now compete directly against the like of Harrier with minimal difference variant by variant.

Time to accept the fact that auto industry is propelling forward with our money as fuel and will be increasing the price significantly with each major launch and marginally with face lifts.

I am sure same is going to be the case with Compass. With facelift, they will announce at least 1-1.25 lakh price increase.

Its is too optimistic to limit price increase of XUV500 to 25 for the top variant. Addition of a panoramic sunroof, people forget value proposition and will but the same for a much higher price.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th January 2021 at 19:25. Reason: Merged back to back posts.
Turbo_head is offline  
Old 26th January 2021, 09:15   #1170
BHPian
 
ASP007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: 🚙
Posts: 72
Thanked: 225 Times
Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Safari base variant with fabric seats. The center console looks ugly imho.

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-screenshot-20210126-9.07.36-am.png

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-screenshot-20210126-9.07.23-am.png

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-screenshot-20210126-9.07.08-am.png






Mod Note: BHPian ram87pune's Report on the 2021 Tata Safari has been taken live at this link. Please continue the discussion over on the new thread. Thanks!

Last edited by Aditya : 26th January 2021 at 09:59. Reason: Adding link to report
ASP007 is offline   (6) Thanks
Closed Thread

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks