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Old 7th January 2021, 15:53   #571
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Tiago was a reworked Indica (/Bolt). Nexon was built on Zest's platform with revamped Tiago engines (petrol one having the lowest torque in the turbo segment, lower than engines with lower displacement).

They took Land Rover's platform, replaced the aluminium bits by steel and launched it as Harrier with a loaned engine with a lower tune.

And now this. I am slowly losing respect for the brand.
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Old 7th January 2021, 16:55   #572
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

As a brand strategist, I personally find this a bizarre idea which lacks any structured process.

The Safari built a reputation for ruggedness with (some) offroad credibility. It definitely was no lifestyle product though.

The Harrier, for all its niggles, has been able to elevate Tata to the next level, gaining a tremendous amount of cred as a fairly premium product in a territory Tata has never been able to breach before.

The Gravitas was supposed to stretch the Harrier's brand cred up a notch.

By picking the Safari moniker they are doing themselves a double disservice. On the one hand, this is definitely not a product in keeping with the Safari's rugged reputation, thereby watering down a brand name which was somewhat legendary in its own right and space (similar to how Maruti has successfully crapped all over the legacy of both Baleno and the Grand Vitara), and killing a potential opportunity to launch a more specialised off-road product line someday. On the other hand and more importantly, by taking a brand name that definitely was positioned below the Gravitas segment (and below the Harrier in terms of design language, fit, finish and refinement) they take away from the aspirational value of the new offering.

They could've taken a leaf out of Mahindra's book who created the XUV which was always more premium and urban in its positioning than the Scorpio which continued to appeal to a certain demographic.

Their constant waffling over names doesn't help either. Projects a complete lack of clarity and direction with respect to a long-term strategy which is particularly concerning considering this is at the top tier of their offerings.

Last edited by RT13 : 7th January 2021 at 17:09.
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Old 7th January 2021, 17:14   #573
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Anyone else thinks 'Sierra' would have suited it more? Even in terms of styling, treatment of the raised quarter glass at the rear is reminiscent of the tall green house of the Sierra.
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Old 7th January 2021, 17:31   #574
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Coming from a brand background, I would say that TML would have surely conducted a market research with the relevant TG and tested the concept of Safari as a brand Vs Gravitas.

The result of the research would have come late and adverse to the name Gravitas. Hence, the it was renamed as Safari.

We should understand that a lot of times organizations do this after a research and feedback from their TG. The 4x4 enthusiasts may not contribute much to their TG. Everyone is here for business anyway.
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Old 7th January 2021, 17:47   #575
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RT13 View Post
As a brand strategist, I personally find this a bizarre idea which lacks any structured process.

The Safari built a reputation for ruggedness with (some) offroad credibility. It definitely was no lifestyle product though.
I have to differ here, for its time Safari was a lifestyle product. At least 2 out of 3 friends brought it as a lifestyle statement..
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Old 7th January 2021, 17:51   #576
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

While a 4 X 4 is always a welcome addition, some thoughts:
  1. It would cost more
  2. Whose to say that the 4 X 2 is not capable for most purposes including some softer off-roading. A survey would have indicated that 90% buyers would do just that.
  3. If they do see the need to add the 4 X 4 (we aren't even sure they are not because there is no mention of the versions) then they could certainly do so in round two

Typically you would want to introduce things in a phased manner to sustain sales. It could perhaps work out well for them.
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Old 7th January 2021, 18:05   #577
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Then they have to satisfy the GNCAP fans, that is also solved.
I think this is something they've left unanswered if not unsolved, for now.
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Old 7th January 2021, 18:13   #578
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by manjubp View Post
I have to differ here, for its time Safari was a lifestyle product. At least 2 out of 3 friends brought it as a lifestyle statement..
All due respect while it may have had an aspirational appeal to a certain demographic, it slotted into a huge gap which existed once upon a time, below the Fortuners of the world and above ‘faux’ suvs such as the Duster. Sedans still largely ruled below the Endeavours and Fortuners with the only real choice being between the Safari and Scorpio. Sure it was reflective and a statement of ‘their lifestyle’ but it was never positioned as a refined lifestyle product. In fact that ‘lifestyle SUV/MUV’ category didn’t really explode until later. Today with the Creta, the Seltos and the XUVs, it’s chocker block. And a step higher it’s the Compass, the Harrier and the Hector (not going to argue about their relative merits or capability - just talking about the lifestyle elements with big engines and bodies and features and tech). I think a Safari still has its place in the lineup but you’d be hard pressed to slot it along with, let alone higher, than the models listed above. Just doesn’t work in the current scenario imo. Definitely think it would have a place below the Harrier though.

Last edited by RT13 : 7th January 2021 at 18:20.
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Old 7th January 2021, 18:20   #579
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

A transverse engine oversized compact with the Safari badge! no thank you.
If the up coming Hexa BS6 relaunch got the Safari badge I could accept it. If they develop another body shape with influence from existing Safari Storm, and Sharing frame and power train with the Hexa, but with 4X4 as stock instead as an option in Hexa I will be happy about it.

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Old 7th January 2021, 18:26   #580
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadAtlas View Post
Tiago was a reworked Indica (/Bolt). Nexon was built on Zest's platform with revamped Tiago engines
Please recheck the facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBravo View Post
We should understand that a lot of times organizations do this after a research and feedback from their TG. The 4x4 enthusiasts may not contribute much to their TG. Everyone is here for business anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NevGin View Post
[*]Whose to say that the 4 X 2 is not capable for most purposes including some softer off-roading. A survey would have indicated that 90% buyers would do just that.
+1. The market size for 4wd vehicles is very small. And those who need a 4wd, they would prefer to go for a true blue BOF SUV like Fortuner, Endeavour or so on.

However, Tata shouldn't have looked at 4wd from a pure commercial point of view but as a branding exercise. Launching a 4x4 option would have added to the brand and appeal of this model. Your flagship 'SUV' deserves this.

Especially when this model is sporting the 'Safari' moniker and 'Reclaim your life' tag line, where all the previous ads used to show the Safari off the road and on various terrains. They should have continued the same theme here with the Gravitas to maintain the appeal.

Edit: As I understand, there's one commercial disadvantage for Tata Motors (and even Mahindra) when compared to the MNCs here - scale of operation and market presence. Due to their scale of operation, any money spent on R&D of vehicles is recouped when the models are sold across different countries.

Once Toyota designs that Fortuner, they can sell it across 10s of markets. And depending on local demand, they can launch the relevant variants only (for example: Legender doesn't come with 4wd). Tata has Indian market and few hundred units of export to other countries. It makes less sense to develop different variants of a car when the demand is low in the primary market.

Catch 22....

Last edited by ashis89 : 7th January 2021 at 18:36. Reason: Another point
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Old 7th January 2021, 18:26   #581
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Thanks heavens! they got rid of "GRAVITAS". Never was a name for an SUV, in my opinion.

Having owned and driven the 2.2 dicor for over 8 years and 1lac kms, here's my litmus test for the new Safari.

1) The lounge sofa test. It must match the stadium sofa seating of the 2nd row. Including the knee, leg room and under thigh support.

2) The magic carpet ride test. It must sail over any kind of road imperfections without a blink, and match the magic carpet ride of the Safari.

3) The tug in the heart test. just like its forebearers did, the new safari must tug your hearts with desire to own one and 'reclaim your life'

4) The 'Mud mud ke dekh' test. You can never have only one glance at the safari.

Now lets see if the Gravitas nee Safari will pass!

I believe the Safari had its dimensions spot on - Wheelbase, Track, Length, Width, which gave it the ability to cruise all day long in supreme comfort.

Particularly the wheelbase - which imo was the scorpio's achilles heel.

cheers!
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Old 7th January 2021, 18:36   #582
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

The first feeling I had after getting this news was that of disappointment. I was a fan of the original Safari and it was my dream car all through the noughties so I was disappointed that something that shares its look and design language with the Harrier has now been renamed as Safari. I was not ok with Gravitas either - a 7 seater Harrier is a Harrier+ or a Harrier XL. The camouflage shots of the new Safari in this forum have done nothing to dispel the notion that this car looks like the Harrier more than anything else, especially at the front. So unless Tata magically pull a rabbit out of the hat and the final version we get in showrooms ends up looking sufficiently different from the Harrier, I will put this down as a text book case of poor brand differentiation - where the new car has a name which reminds us of something else but looks like something else altogether. Let's see what happens come January 26. On a separate note, since there's no plan to bring in the 4WD version of the new Safari immediately, I seriously hope that they'll bring back the Hexa 4WD in its BS6 avatar.
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Old 7th January 2021, 18:38   #583
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadAtlas View Post
Tiago was a reworked Indica (/Bolt). Nexon was built on Zest's platform with revamped Tiago engines (petrol one having the lowest torque in the turbo segment, lower than engines with lower displacement).

They took Land Rover's platform, replaced the aluminium bits by steel and launched it as Harrier with a loaned engine with a lower tune.

And now this. I am slowly losing respect for the brand.
Off topic! But ya they built a brand new car Altroz on a new platform, they are building hbx. Old platform does not in any way compromise the superb safety or performance of Nexon. Tiago and Tigor look the best in segment and they in no way marketed them as scorchers. They did launch the JTP versions of it for the purists! The company which has churned out 6 new cars in the last 5 years with multiple variants and engine options. When was the last model released by the market leader? How many models released by other global players? It is easy to cherry pick dislikes and be an armchair critic!
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Old 7th January 2021, 19:21   #584
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post

I believe the Safari had its dimensions spot on - Wheelbase, Track, Length, Width, which gave it the ability to cruise all day long in supreme comfort.

Particularly the wheelbase - which imo was the scorpio's achilles heel.

cheers!
Srini
Scorpio`s wheelbase is a tiny bit longer and the vehicle is taller. Safari is wider and longer.
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Old 7th January 2021, 19:31   #585
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadAtlas View Post
Tiago was a reworked Indica (/Bolt).
Really? Where did you get this info from? just look at the wheelbase and track of both cars and you can see that they are different platforms.

Quote:
Nexon was built on Zest's platform with revamped Tiago engines (petrol one having the lowest torque in the turbo segment, lower than engines with lower displacement).
170 nm torque from a 1.2L petrol is low? how about 175 nm from the much vaunted VW 1.2 TSI?

Quote:
They took Land Rover's platform, replaced the aluminium bits by steel and launched it as Harrier with a loaned engine with a lower tune.
Swapping AL with steel is to lower costs else one would be paying twice as much for the Harrier. as regards the "loaned engine", what's your basis for this statement? by this yardstick every DDIS engine in every Maruti is also a "loaned engine".

Quote:
And now this. I am slowly losing respect for the brand.
You may not like TML, and that's fine, but your statements are really over the top.

Last edited by Aditya : 7th January 2021 at 20:27. Reason: Please avoid responding inline
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