[prajwalmr62]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Instead, the sub 4 m rule, ... and a flat market for several years (PV sales of 2.6 mm in FY12 and 2.7 mm in FY21) ...

We might have a flat PV sales, but ticket prices must have gone up. If Creta + Seltos can do 2L+ sales a year even with the existing tax rates, Indians are spending a lot more on cars than before.

Would it help if we get rid of 4m rule, and come up with another less-tax bracket between 10L - 20L category, (say, 35% instead of 4m rule), more manufacturers can compete in this segment, and see some returns? I think it can, would love to hear your opinion on this.

Originally Posted by Hayek

Of course it is a loss for Ford to have to exit India after a 25 year haul where they made massive investments and saw no returns. But the bigger loss is for the Indian customer - who is faced with a smaller and smaller set of quality cars to choose from.

Well, we already have smaller set of cars to choose from. Ford's possible exit is because they couldn't come up with something even in this starved market. I wouldn't call it a loss.

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

[Electromotive]

Ford India's problem has always been a management problem. They have consistently missed the pulse of the Indian market, and have never been willing to give the Indian market what it wants, may be due to a snobbish/superior attitude inherited from the American parent. "Well thought out" rules from our govt. didn't help either.

Not sure if Ford will completely exit India but the rumors of demise/exit for companies are generally self-fulfilling. What's for sure is they are not gonna put any more money in our market. Their ROCE have been pretty solid in the US market over the past couple years and they seem to be going ahead full thrust with the electric offerings.

I drool over the F-150 Lightning everyday.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by kiku007

W

I can also provide a big list of things that Ford India did wrong and that was not the point of my post. Trust me when I tell you how disappointed I am when I compare Ford's progress (or the lack of) when compared to Hyundai.

You called the Indian auto market as having a level playing field and I disagree with that.

And my point is, it is a level playing field just the same. An allegation that the sub 4mtr rule was devised because it favoured Maruti is in the realm of conspiracy theories.

Pre 1990's the Govt EXPLICITLY favoured MS, post the 90's it has been one law for all OEM's, no exceptions. That is the textbook definition of a level playing field.

[SoupRaw]

An official statement from Ford is imperative at this point.

Slightly Off topic, but posting here since I've to make a decision soon.

I've been eyeing the Freestyle diesel. Considering the recent developments, is it a bad idea?

[Carpainter]

Originally Posted by SoupRaw

I've been eyeing the Freestyle diesel. Considering the recent developments, is it a bad idea?

Since purchasing a car is a huge monetary decision and one has to depend on the OEM for service and parts for a long time, I'd suggest you to wait for a few more months if possible or atleast until the picture gets clearer. This issue has been lingering for quite some time now and I'm sure Ford is losing business because of their unpredictable future. It's better if they can come up with a solid response regarding their commitment to our market by proper official response followed by a few new launches or pack up their operations as soon as possible to avoid further losses.

[Stribog]

Mods - Apologies on the back to back posts, requesting you to merge them.

Originally Posted by Hayek

Think the “exit?” of Ford is a function of three factors:


Instead, the sub 4 m rule, changing directions on fuel prices (a rapidly expanding petrol diesel price differential from 2008 to 2014, and a swing in the opposite direction since then), increasing rather than decreasing duties, and a flat market for several years (PV sales of 2.6 mm in FY12 and 2.7 mm in FY21) have convinced boards of global auto makers that India is not a market where global players have any kind of advantage and they have therefore had to find strategies to build local scale economies. Ford attempted that with the Mahindra tie up - but with that falling through, they are clearly in a very hard place.

Of course it is a loss for Ford to have to exit India after a 25 year haul where they made massive investments and saw no returns. But the bigger loss is for the Indian customer - who is faced with a smaller and smaller set of quality cars to choose from.

PV sales were 2.6 Mn in 2012 yes, but 2019 was at 3.4 Mn, a CAGR of 3.9%. 2020 was Covid year and we still are in that period so is not a true reflection of the market size and is an aberration.

In number terms, the Indian PV market added 8,00,000 units / annum over 7 years or roughly 67,000 units / month.

In 2012, the approx monthly units moved was

MS - 90,000
Hyundai - 30,000
Ford - 6,000

In 2019 the same numbers are,

MS - 1,20,000
Hyundai - 45,000 (of which a substantial 8-10k were the not cheap Creta, so in terms of value of vehicles sold, the Hyundai of 2012 is not even remotely the same as the Hyundai of 2019)
Ford - 6,000

In other words, the overall market grew at 5% CAGR, but Ford didn't.

2019 also saw the entry of Kia and MG, Kia Seltos was doing 10-12k per month, MG was doing 3,000 units a month.

Ford simply put could not capitalise even on this growth, and remained stuck where they were in 2012 while new players + MS and Hyundai ate up all the increased market share and value.

On the point about Indian consumers having lesser choice, given that Ford never crossed 72 k units in a 3 Mn units market, there was only an illusion of choice that Ford offered.

[fazayal]

I read it at many places that sub 4 metre taxation was created to benefit Maruti cars like Dzire. Fact is that Dzire used to be above 4 metre in length that time, and they reduced the length of Dzire after the new taxation. So, how can this statement be correct?

[CarNerd]

Originally Posted by kiku007

What you are you implying here? Do only luxury car makers deserve accolades for quality? What is the correlation?

If non luxury car makers give good quality products at competitive prices, nobody is going to blame them but don't expect people to buy expensive products from non luxury makers just because their products are of higher quality. Suzuki Kizashi, Hyundai Getz, Elantra, Sonata were all flops. Even Fusion, Mondeo were flops but Ford didn't seem to learn the lesson.

Originally Posted by kiku007

They tried that as well. Remember the Gen-2 Figo/Aspire? My heart sank when I drove that car. Ford wanted to do a Maruti Swift/Dzire with the Gen-2 and it was an epic failure.

They tried? As if they did a great thing by trying. Even others like Nissan, Renault, Tata, etc had failures but that didn't stop them from coming up with different models. Tell me what new models did they launch in the past 5 years?

[Deep Blue]

I had the first gen Figo for 9years and absolutely loved it despite it giving me some problems including breakdowns in the highway. I wanted to upgrade to a Ford itself, but there was nothing in the Ford portfolio for me. The new Figo didn't feel like the old one. Fiesta had gone sour. I didn't want a CSUV or SUV. I was hoping they would launch the Fiesta hatch, but it never came.
I feel most first time buyers of the Ford cars would love them so much that they would want to upgrade to another Ford. But there is a never a suitable car in the Ford's Indian portfolio.
Sad to see Ford go. It is definitely a loss for auto enthusiast's here.

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by SoupRaw

I've been eyeing the Freestyle diesel. Considering the recent developments, is it a bad idea?

Nope. By law, any manufacturer is required to provide service support for 15 years in my recollection post discontinuation of any product. There is no issue whatsoever with purchasing a Ford. Plenty of members on the forum have picked up Fords in recent times. For a competent product which you like, you can go ahead and buy.

[MadRasTan4986]

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

Nope. By law, any manufacturer is required to provide service support for 15 years in my recollection post discontinuation of any product. There is no issue whatsoever with purchasing a Ford. Plenty of members on the forum have picked up Fords in recent times. For a competent product which you like, you can go ahead and buy.

You are correct. Law is there in place but execution is a different matter all together. Parts prices will shoot up even if available. And depending on where you are parts will take time to source. Most suppliers will be reluctant to build an old model part.

[Turbanator]

I got some more info, Ford does indeed have a plan and Ranger is on track to be launched anytime in the next 2 months. FORD engine plant was never a part of the deal with Mahindra and if I am not mistaken, it produces engines for the American market (maybe even V6 Diesel!), that's rumoured to be fitted on the 2022 Everest. If that happens, it will simply take the competition to another level.

Let's wait for another 2-3 weeks and should have more clarity.

[H0RSEPOWER]

It is Ford’s fault here for this sad scenario. They have been in India for more than 25 years, which is a huge time to analyse the customer requirements & act accordingly. A lot of people told that they did not get advantage for India specific rules. But I would rather say, they capitalised on the same by creating the first sub 4 metre CSUV in India by launching Ecosport & snatched a huge market share from Duster at that point of time. They could do it because they utilised the sub 4 metres rule keep the price very competitive & simultaneously implemented their core ideologies of providing a sturdy car with great driving dynamics & awesome looks. But then slowly but steadily they messed it up. Instead of providing proper upgrade options & multiple cars for different body types & price ranges , they gave importance to feature deletion to increase profit margin! And to be frank, apart from a few enthusiasts here, very few people would be bothered even if they leave, and that is pretty much evident from the sales figures.

We have to admit a fact that if one fails to evolve as per the local market & customer requirements, they would perish. Just because once they have made some wonderful cars earlier would not help them to stay afloat without proper upgradation. 15-20 years back Mitsubishi Lancer used to be enthusiasts choice for the sedan category, Pajero used to be choice for getting a butch BOF car, for powerful hatch people used to choose Fiat Palio 1.6. But neither Mitsubishi nor Fiat sells car in India at today’s date. And still we do have good options to choose from some other home grown manufacturers(Tata, Mahindra) which used to sell mostly commercial vehicles in those days! Only nostalgic value & one car which is good but a decade old would not help to succeed in this competitive market.

[VWAllstar]

There are many posts giving out reasons why they should exit, what went wrong and so forth. Many others especially those who own a Ford are feeling sad and being defensive to different perspective on the 'rumour'

Before we do an indept analysis, let the rumour be confirmed by Ford. Or have they already?

[One]

Irrespective of what Ford did/ didn't do in the past, I for one, would like Ford to stay here for a long time. Because this state/ statement has many implications, all of which are positive:

- The consumers have another choice.
- The business environment is favourable.
- If a company is around, they probably have a successful model which is again more power to the consumers.
- They continue manufacturing for export market
- They continue manufacturing
The last two points are extremely positive for the economy as well.