[purb_du]

I would not be surprised if it turns out to be true in the near future. Considering the high taxation both in terms of gst and road tax, it looks like a dream starring at the naked base price of a vehicle today. Forget about the manufacturer, we as end users feel cheated and fleeced if one looks at the invoice, but then the aspirational value and that long wait for a new car takes precedence and rightly so.

In the end, am just made to wonder that countries as small as Bhutan, Nepal or Bangladesh(altough mostly imports) or our eastern neighbors enjoy such modern product offerings from so many auto manufacturers and we boasting as a trillion dollar economy can only spend our time watching youtube etc of new launches elsewhere.

There is certainly a big mismatch between where we are now and other nations in terms of the auto sector for sure.

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by hortons15

An unpopular opinion but you've said what needs to be said. Unless the mindset of our people changes to a focus on quality in everything they do and away from cheapness, I doubt anything will change. The government seems to be doing great work in creating infrastructure that is comparable to world standards (at least SE Asia) and only time will tell if our people's mindset changes too.

This honestly made me sad. People pay more attention to niggles and rarely used features instead of safety and driving pleasure.

[DeepCarTalk]

Originally Posted by Bhupesh_2628

Those products won't come to India anytime sooner or later.
Also, I don't think they will invest, research & develop any new product just for developing markets like us. Not worth the effort considering the profits in return.

'In a market like us' 'India is not mature'

To be very honest, all of this makes Ford look like a lazy company (and it is).

I don't see the point of complaining about how India is not a mature market or how we tend to buy products that are blingy or offer more features.
Every market has it's characteristics and it is the company that is operating in it to be dynamic enough to operate successfully.

Ford has a stale lineup in India and they don't have a vision for a better future.

Look at Skoda, they developed a new product for India with Indians and our buying habits in mind. Granted it seems expensive but it'll still sell 2000-3000 units a month at least. That is one positive step, right?

If you're going to sell substandard quality cars with interiors straight out of 2013 and don't even give decent list of features to compensate? how do you expect your product to sell?

Safety feature, body rigidity and NCAP is sweet but a prospective buyer will not dig in the details and will compare Freestyle or EcoSport with Nexon or i20 and see the money to value proportion, unless he wants to get a VW Polo of course.

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by LeoRBK

The remark about Ford not having strong presence in EU does not match the facts. For example, have a look at the new car registrations in UK for year to date,
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
So, Ford is one of the big manufacturers in UK. It has plans to invest in BEV development and battery technology.
This investment needs to be at significant pace if Ford were to maintain its market share in a market rapidly switching to electrics(in part forced by govt policy and changing consumer choices).

They do not expect revenue to improve in the near future, yet are expected to make massive new investments. As they expect to bleed in the coming years, I am not surprised if they choose to consolidate their investment into BEV to avert what is perhaps an existential crisis for traditional manufacturers.

Here,
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/04/ford...g-and-evs.html
Ford CEO is looking to pull out of low/no profit markets and invest in EV technology.


This article is an interesting read,
https://thestrategystory.com/2020/11...ment-strategy/
We could only speculate, but this strategy could mean while Ford might not exit India market they might stop development and manufacturing mass market products in India it might continue offering global products like Endeavour and bring in new products like Mustang Mach E.

Here are some plans Ford has announced,
Ford said it would spend $1bn (£720m) updating its factory in Cologne, with the aim of producing a mass-market electric vehicle by 2023.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56084500

So it looks like Ford wants to reduce product lines, platforms and focus product development around key markets in US, EU, China.
They might introduce some of these in India. I believe in India there is a growing aspirational middle class who can afford and own one.

Maybe it is an indication of times to come, other manufacturers may follow suit. In future, we might have less diversity on the budget end of spectrum and more in executive, luxury end in India.

Govt. needs to sort out its policy. Imposing heavy taxation on imports and forcing every manufacturer's hand to make in India was a good policy in the past when we did not have Suzuki, Hyundai's, , Toyota's, Renault's, MG's building it local, we need a pragmatic approach when it comes to bringing in diversity in price range, safety and new technology. This is just my personal view of course and policy makers probably have better ideas...

[gishu]

After deliberating for nearly 6 months, I traded my 6 year old new Fiesta for an Ecosport - March 2019 primarily fearing parts obsolescence.

3 months later, I read about a similar thread about Ford merging with Mahindra and what not. I was a bit anxious now with Ford obsolescence. My SA assured me that it's business as usual at Satyam Thane.

2 years later, I still like the drive (although doesn't get to stretch its legs enough with the lockdown & not as fun as the "dud" which was the NewFiesta), the car is safe and efficient, Satyam Thane is also chugging along with good aftersales exp.

Just happened to see this thread and the rumor mill still at work... Ford isn't doing itself any favors by dilly-dallying. Ecosport is still eeking out 3000 a month for a granddaddy.

I see the Rapid is doing 500 and VW Polo doing 2000 - cars that yet have some "josh". Here's hoping the indian automotive ice cream shop doesn't end up with just vanilla and chocolate for the consumers

PS: Sad to hear that SC Ford has also wound up ( I had exemplary experience with Wasan Ford, where I got my first car). Iconic dealerships of the Ford lore.

[giri1.8]

My guess is that, someone at Ford India is working desperately to turn things around with limited resources, meanwhile Ford HQ is probably not interested to infuse fresh capital needed for new product development.

Let's how they come out of this mess.

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

My guess is that, someone at Ford India is working desperately to turn things around with limited resources, meanwhile Ford HQ is probably not interested to infuse fresh capital needed for new product development.

Let's how they come out of this mess.

A well priced ford territory would be a game changer for them. And a proper ecosport revamp (needs to be wider) would get them large numbers in sales, too.

[amalji]

Let's be honest here. If a car manufacturer has to be super successful in India, they have to offer bling ( read features ) at a cheap cost. It doesn't matter if they compromise on reliability. It doesn't matter if they compromise on safety. Bling cannot be compromised and cost cannot be compromised. Panoramic Sunroof at the same cost matters even if it comes at the cost of a few compromises on steel and brakes.

I consider Ford as a brand which doesn't dilute its core values to bring down the price. So, the only thing they could do was to incrementally cut on features. And we hate that attitude! They should have substituted high strength steel with normal steel or should have reduced the reinforcements on the side where crash test is not done or maybe even cut down on air bags. They should have aleast compromised on the quality of the brakes rather than cut on features! Aleast they should have cut their investments in their support and service and instead should have invested in bling.

Even after cutting the features, what I felt was that ford was still selling their cars on losses thanks to the competition who did all these 'best practices'. How long could they have survived like this? The likes of ford and Toyota should just exit this country. Their priorities don't match ours.

And in a country where cars are taxed like liquor, high quality manufacturers are always at a disadvantage. Because each penny they spend on quality doubles up in the actual price of the vehicle which gives an unfair advantage to the manufacturers who are ok with giving 3rd Grade quality to countries like India. In a sane taxation eco system, the price difference wouldn't have been that much for a better quality brand.

If a manufacturer takes all the effort to offer everything, then we will ruthlessly call that vehicle 'over priced' because the benchmark bar is already at a low. Just try and see the number of manufacturers making profit in India and you'll get to know what I'm talking about.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by amalji

Let's be honest here. If a car manufacturer has to be super successful in India, they have to offer bling ( read features ) at a cheap cost. It doesn't matter if they compromise on reliability. It doesn't matter if they compromise on safety. Bling cannot be compromised and cost cannot be compromised. Panoramic Sunroof at the same cost matters even if it comes at the cost of a few compromises on steel and brakes.

Toyota does not do any of these and is still moderately successful at least in the higher end of the spectrum. If what Ford wanted was to be successful without compromising their core values, they could have done it by focussing only on segments higher than a threshold. Just like Toyota does. To me, it is just lack of intent. There is space for a brand like Ford in our market if they are willing to search for the market's pulse and place the product there.

There is no point competing with Suzuki, Tata, and Mahindra who all focus on the sub-15 lakh spectrum. Those segments are crowded and only go by the bling features as you mentioned. Ford can easily place itself as the Toyota competitor. They have enough products in the global portfolio to flood the post-20 lakh segment. Toyota is the only reliable option for someone who searches in the 20-50 lakh segment.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by amalji

Let's be honest here. If a car manufacturer has to be super successful in India, they have to offer bling ( read features ) at a cheap cost. It doesn't matter if they compromise on reliability. It doesn't matter if they compromise on safety. Bling cannot be compromised and cost cannot be compromised. Panoramic Sunroof at the same cost matters even if it comes at the cost of a few compromises on steel and brakes.

I consider Ford as a brand which doesn't dilute its core values to bring down the price.

Ford has mastered this with the Ecosport cost cutting and bling in one go, they didn't bother with a decent diesel automatic or turbo petrol. Ford has specialised in feature deletion, it wouldn't have been hard to make a panoramic sunroof for the ecosport or at least a small one in all versions.

Ford diluted whatever core values they had in practically ever successful model they sold. What's a core value anyone associates with Ford, the usual thing I hear is to get rid of it by 4 years. My parents have a 2011 fiesta for full disclosure, that's a good car and like I've repeated here many times, Ford never repeated the one ford mistake with the wildly successful ecosport, the fiesta bombed because it was a good car.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by amalji

Let's be honest here. If a car manufacturer has to be super successful in India, they have to offer bling ( read features ) at a cheap cost. It doesn't matter if they compromise on reliability. It doesn't matter if they compromise on safety. Bling cannot be compromised and cost cannot be compromised. Panoramic Sunroof at the same cost matters even if it comes at the cost of a few compromises on steel and brakes.

I consider Ford as a brand which doesn't dilute its core values to bring down the price. So, the only thing they could do was to incrementally cut on features. And we hate that attitude! They should have substituted high strength steel with normal steel or should have reduced the reinforcements on the side where crash test is not done or maybe even cut down on air bags. They should have aleast compromised on the quality of the brakes rather than cut on features! Aleast they should have cut their investments in their support and service and instead should have invested in bling.

No offence to your views, but it’s not like Ford is not churning out 5 star rated cars, right? Sure, the general perception is that Fords are built better than Suzukis and Hyundai’s. But at times perception isn’t just enough. In today’s scenario manufacturers are voluntarily offering cars for NCAP tests, so why didn’t Ford even attempt this with the Ecosport or the Aspire twins? And many of us know that the current Aspire twins don’t really stand for the kind of build quality and finish that we used to associate Ford with.

All Ford did was go overboard with a silly campaign that their Ecosport is way above 5 stars! If you want to throw such claims then might as well send it for testing, right?

The whole NCAP testing is a big discussion by itself and we have many threads discussing this, so I don’t want to divert this topic, but my point is, at times perception is just not enough. We all thought the Seltos was a very good car, and it returned just 3 stars, whereas a seemingly average car like the Triber came back with 4! So in reality we don’t know where the india specific Ford Ecosport stands.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to bash Ford. But Ford can only blame themselves and not the indian customer. Sure, the indian customers prefer a big touchscreen, sunroof and chrome. So do China and many other Asian countries!

Didn’t the same indian customers make the earlier Figo and the Fiesta popular? Or even the Ikon? They weren’t sales toppers, but we’re reasonably successful cars in their era. And even the Ecosport, in spite of a massively competitive space, the indian customer still values the Ecosport for its dynamics and other qualities and that’s why it sells in decent numbers. Similarly the Endeavour, it’s second only to the Fortuner, still better in sales than Kodiaq or MG Gloster or the Alturas, right?


Bottom line being, this was always ford’s market to lose. Why didn’t they build another bigger version of the Ecosport to challenge the Creta? Is the Ecosport’s platform so limited that no other car can be built from it?

Ford doesn’t want to invest in anything new and wants sales to be handed over in a platter?
Hasn’t VW worked on a 2.0 strategy for India?
To me, Ford has been simply shortsighted and lazy. No body is to blame here except Ford.

[Nikhil Beke]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Toyota does not do any of these and is still moderately successful at least in the higher end of the spectrum

Toyota is surviving by badge-engineering suzuki vehicles- which in itself has begun to look like a keep-everyone-happy option. Dealers get their sales, customers get a reliable product under a good brand! But it is a heavy compromise- these products don't have a 'Toyota DNA' if you will- in terms of safety, build quality and longevity.
Ford should try some such thing (they were really, really trying with Mahindra)- the customers would be making a beeline for an Altroz/ Citroen cSUV, sold by any other name, to be serviced at Ford service centres (hypothetical scenario). Tata would be getting the potent Ford engines, cementing their Achilles heel. I know, it's too good to be true, but it's a win-win for both and would be tit-for-tat for Toyota and Suzuki

[TaurusSHO]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Why didn’t they build another bigger version of the Ecosport to challenge the Creta? Is the Ecosport’s platform so limited that no other car can be built from it?

Yes, the B2E platform is actually pretty limited, the largest vehicle based on it being the 4.1 meter long Transit Courier. The newer C2 platform does not have any presence in India, probably the reason why Ford India was looking at Mahindra for a crossover/SUV above the Ecosport (XUV700) but we all know how that turned out.
I personally feel Ford will stop manufacturing and become a niche player with only a handful of products from their global lineup (CBU), just like what they did with Brazil. It's only a matter of time before we see a press release like this: https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ructuring.html

[officer416]

Ford has played this tactic in Canada where the reports started floating around September 2020 that Ford is planning to shutdown its Oakville facility. Canada being Canada where hardly anybody wants to setup a production facility got cold feet. Immediately Federal and Provincial government jumped in and offered over $500 million dollars to Ford to upgrade their plant to produce electric vehicle. Ford came out later saying that we are very invested in the market and will make this facility a hub for all future electric vehicle development. The tax payers footed the bill to protect their own jobs which is just ridiculous.

Then came FCA in the same month and were like “hey, if Ford can do it we can too”. Same thing again government gets cold feet and write another cheque for millions of dollar to upgrade the plant in Windsor so FCA can produce electric vehicles and taxpayers foot all the bill.

If anything the Top management at Ford just tried their luck with Indian central and state government for any goodies they can offer as bailout to save jobs during the economic slowdown due to pandemic. Ford can very well just walk out and don’t forget to close the door behind them when they leave. Don’t want this type of bargaining technique become a trend in India. Given how Mastercard and Twitter got treated don’t seem Indian government really cares if these companies leave.

I can bet the average buyer doesn’t even know that Hyundai owns Kia, yet Kia has become one of the best sellers thanks to the aggressive strategy and genuine interest to succeed in the Indian market. MG which is later entrant has seen success with its Hector line up. Ford, Honda, VW have been smoking some next level stuff and they are riding on some unicorns in their dreams, when reality will hit them they will realise it wasn’t a unicorn but a Daewoo Matiz.

[Nikhil Beke]

It's only a matter of time before we see a press release like this

Exactly- this is in line with all the recent indications- including that Ford is not willing to make an official statement over this fiasco. If these speculations are correct,
1.They would continue to have physical presence and continue sales(as is their official position at the moment), albeit only of the CBUs in niche segments.
2.That does imply that few of the recent models would be discontinued, including Figo(KA) triplets and even possibly EcoSport 3.Aftersales/spares would continue- but difficult to know if they'd stay as economical as they're now(any experience from Brazil in this regard, anyone?). Resale value of present cars would take a major hit, but that's about it.