[logicalidiot]

Don't you think it is the Indian tax structure to be blamed? We've already seen what happened a few months back with Toyota Motor Corp. They sort of clearly expressed their disinterest in the Indian automotive market and has directly or indirectly implied that there wouldn't be any major scale ups in the country. Toyota is surviving mostly from the sales of Fortuner/Innova and they have been milking it for some time now with no new products. Don't even get me started on the rebadged Maruti cars.

Ford on the other hand, doesn't have a strong contender in their line-ups (except Ford Endeavour) and the ones in the market like EcoSport have sort of become outdated. Add to that, the lesser support from the government and collection of more taxes has made the Indian automotive market an unpredictable and risky business - why would anybody take a huge risk of investing a chunk in India when the whole scenario and the turnover from the country isn't that high.

Over the years, what I've seen is that Indian market is a very lucrative market when looked from the outside. But only when you get into the business, you realise the investment, time and effort put may not be worth.

[SaiSW]

Seems like our threads and concerned replies about the topic is bringing more attention to the topic than Ford's performance in the market, itself. The principle of, if you repeat something long enough, people will eventually come to believe it and take it as the truth, I assume?

[Azalactone]

This was bound to happen. The reason why companies like Ford leave is not because of their products but because of their failure to establish a reliable dealer/service network which inturn affects sales.

I am writing this for the POV of a Mumbai resident.

When Ford started selling the Ford Escort/Ford Ikon there were two dealers - Wasan Ford and Vama Ford. They are no more. Then came Shakti Ford. It closed down. SC Ford which is a part of Modi group (the same group operates Hyundai, Honda dealerships also) came up in Malad (W) and was there for many years until it closed down recently. In 2015 there was a dealership called Kavish Ford in Powai (operated by Autobahn Enterprises, the same group manages Nissan,Kia dealerships and used to operate Skoda dealerships also), they closed down in 2 years.

Ford doesn't have a single dealer in mainland Mumbai (excluding Navi Mumbai, Thane, Mira-Bhayandar). Its only old dealers in Mumbai Wasan Ford, SC Ford closed down.

As someone who lives in the Western Suburbs, I cannot travel 20 - 30 kms to Thane, Mira-Bhayandar or Navi Mumbai just to see a car.

Today your dealerships/service centres are there, next year they are not. I doubt if any body will buy your products if your own dealerships keep on opening and closing so frequently, atleast I for sure wouldn't.

In contrast look at Maruti Suzuki (Sai Service, Vitesse, Sah & Sanghi etc) Hyundai (Shreenath, Modi), Toyota (Lakozy, Madhuban, Wasan). Their same dealerships/service centres are present since the time they sold their first car.

[motorworks]

Ford is no longer the global auto giant it used to be. There is a very clear focus on the North American market and that’s about it. They don’t seem to have the philosophy of being a global player anymore.

Secondly, most companies are resorting to partnerships and alliances, just look at the recent FCA and PSA or Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi, who have managed to stay together in spite of the rocky Carlos Ghosn episode! Then you have many brands today with Chinese backing and on the other side you have the Germans who have been fundamentally strong across the globe.

Ford is neither here nor there. They don’t have any strategic partnership with anyone in a significant way, neither do they have Chinese backing and nor do they have a portfolio of brands that they can use in different markets. In the last 2 decades they have retreated from many key markets, I don’t think they have any major presence in Asia or Europe anymore. And it’s just their pickup trucks in Australia and South Africa to some extent and then nowhere else. If I’m not wrong they moved out from Brazil too.

So somewhere in some board meeting of Ford, folks have taken a decision to chase profitability and to them the only easy way to do it was not to make any new investments and just focus on sales in North America. Looking at Ford’s exits from many markets, leaving India was always a certainty, it is just when and how.

[rakesh_r]

Back in 2016, when I was looking out for a car to replace my Swift Diesel, visited the nearest Ford dealer (as usual had the eerie deserted look) to test drive the Ecosport and the Figo. Me and wife instantly loved the Ecosport since it had that "strong car" feeling with those heavy doors and that reassuring "thud" while shutting the doors. The Figo on the other hand floored me with the typical "Turbo kick" which was even higher than my Swift.

Although for me as an enthusiast performance and Safety were of utmost importance, the dashboard (with big Nokia phone type buttons with silver inserts) ticked us off big time. No matter how many times we tried to compromise, we just couldn't get over it. At the end, had to let them go. If the current version of the Ecosport was available at that time, i would have happily picked one up.

If only Ford was a bit more serious, they would have a good line up.

All I can say is "Let the tin cans roll, rule err whatever".

[saikishor]

Leaving the Indian market is the only solution which makes sense for Ford. I see Ford is in the same situation as GM in 2017, albeit better. Two of their products are still dong good numbers, whereas GM’s lineup was dead. Who would want to invest in a loss making venture, unless and until he really has something towards it. Ford clearly doesnt have such interest towards the Indian market. But Ford did have good service and far better products than GM. Ford seems to be selling off their inventory. Much better than what GM did - liquidating stocks in the last minute. If Ford wants to maintain presence, then selling CBU’s is the only sensible option. But will the taxation policy enable them to do so is a question which has to be left to the bosses at Ford.


One thing I feel is, if Ford exits, then their aftersales will be FAR FAR FAR better than that of GM.

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by saikishor

Leaving the Indian market is the only solution which makes sense for Ford. I see Ford is in the same situation as GM in 2017, albeit better. Two of their products are still dong good numbers, whereas GM’s lineup was dead. Who would want to invest in a loss making venture, unless and until he really has something towards it. Ford clearly doesnt have such interest towards the Indian market. But Ford did have good service and far better products than GM. Ford seems to be selling off their inventory. Much better than what GM did - liquidating stocks in the last minute. If Ford wants to maintain presence, then selling CBU’s is the only sensible option. But will the taxation policy enable them to do so is a question which has to be left to the bosses at Ford.


One thing I feel is, if Ford exits, then their aftersales will be FAR FAR FAR better than that of GM.

Considering that chevy owners are faily pleased with the car's service after GMs exit, that's a good sign.

As for Ford, the Magnite has shown that a good looking product priced well shall be a hit. They don't need to match the exact formula, but a proper update to the ecosport and the territory priced in the 12-18l range have the potential to sell in large numbers. People do like ford and I think Indian buyers are willing to give new cars and brands a chance.

[warp_10]

Well GM exiting India cannot be the same as Ford exiting. GM had a painful long run in India without a single car which made a huge dent in the market. From the huge maintenance of the Opel Astras / Corsas till the Cruze (which looked like their best bet).

Ford had an amazing segment, competing head to head with local and korean cars - Starting with the Escort, iKON(which was a sensation with the youth back then - remember myself enjoying rides in my teens), Figo, Ecosport (which was like 1 year wait times) and endeavour (would have gotten it earlier this year if their 3.2l engine was still there). So not sure why the global management does not want to invest further here.

Scary that Ford would exit, given the pattern of not introducing any great product or not investing big, Honda might be the next candidate if at all.

But on the positive, its not like theres nothing to look outside VAG. If you look at local manufacturers (Tata / M&M) they have grown leaps and bounds and have established as strong candidates.

Overall, competition should always be present, for customers to be on the winning side

[Himanshu809]

Originally Posted by logicalidiot

Don't you think it is the Indian tax structure to be blamed? We've already seen what happened a few months back with Toyota Motor Corp. They sort of clearly expressed their disinterest in the Indian automotive market and has directly or indirectly implied that there wouldn't be any major scale ups in the country. Toyota is surviving mostly from the sales of Fortuner/Innova and they have been milking it for some time now with no new products. Don't even get me started on the rebadged Maruti cars.

I agree with you on the Indian tax structure and business environment being challenging, especially for western companies which are used to the much more business friendly environment that's prevalent in their home markets.

But when it comes to Ford, I'd say it's their own decisions which have bought them here.

Ford has a very old presence in India.

Figo and Ecosport were a run away success when launched.

They let go of their USP in 2nd Generation Figo (Build quality, hydraulic steering, greedier pricing), and I know because I owned 1st generation Figo and used it for 1.2 lakh kms. before selling it off.

Ecosport has simply lost the early mover advantage to other cars from more aggresive companies like Maruti and Hyundai. They know how to sell cars with their superior networks even if mostly they are sub standard products i.e. timely discounts, cost cutting exercises to maintain margins and more importantly, features and bling bling.

Ford Fiesta was a competent sedan but they priced it too optimistically and it came at a time Ford had only started to recover from their 'too expensive to maintain' image.

They can turn their way around to be honest but I don't think they will bother with making fresh investments at this stage like many people have mentioned here, they're on a loss cutting drive globally and I think they don't have much faith left in Ford India. They will figure out a way to capitalise their assets here by sharing/selling them off.


Plus it's too much of a headache for them to launch new products in India even though they're focusing on SUVs in USA as in the Indian market, SUVs mean something else entirely, at least for the segments which have volume.

If Ford exits, I'll be disappointed as honestly it's the only American car manufacturer left in India and honestly one of the only brands which sells solidly built(relatively) cars in the sub 15 lakhs brand. I'm not counting VWG as they are a bit on the pricier side for what they offer and I don't even want to talk about their reliability, which is a joke, especially to Indian consumers who are used to bulletproof reliability from Japanese machines

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Ford is no longer the global auto giant it used to be. There is a very clear focus on the North American market and that’s about it. They don’t seem to have the philosophy of being a global player anymore.

Secondly, most companies are resorting to partnerships and alliances, just look at the recent FCA and PSA or Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi, who have managed to stay together in spite of the rocky Carlos Ghosn episode! Then you have many brands today with Chinese backing and on the other side you have the Germans who have been fundamentally strong across the globe.

Ford is neither here nor there. They don’t have any strategic partnership with anyone in a significant way, neither do they have Chinese backing and nor do they have a portfolio of brands that they can use in different markets. In the last 2 decades they have retreated from many key markets, I don’t think they have any major presence in Asia or Europe anymore. And it’s just their pickup trucks in Australia and South Africa to some extent and then nowhere else. If I’m not wrong they moved out from Brazil too.

So somewhere in some board meeting of Ford, folks have taken a decision to chase profitability and to them the only easy way to do it was not to make any new investments and just focus on sales in North America. Looking at Ford’s exits from many markets, leaving India was always a certainty, it is just when and how.

The remark about Ford not having strong presence in EU does not match the facts. For example, have a look at the new car registrations in UK for year to date,
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
So, Ford is one of the big manufacturers in UK. It has plans to invest in BEV development and battery technology.
This investment needs to be at significant pace if Ford were to maintain its market share in a market rapidly switching to electrics(in part forced by govt policy and changing consumer choices).

They do not expect revenue to improve in the near future, yet are expected to make massive new investments. As they expect to bleed in the coming years, I am not surprised if they choose to consolidate their investment into BEV to avert what is perhaps an existential crisis for traditional manufacturers.

[ashking101]

Originally Posted by logicalidiot

Don't you think it is the Indian tax structure to be blamed? We've already seen what happened a few months back with Toyota Motor Corp. They sort of clearly expressed their disinterest in the Indian automotive market and has directly or indirectly implied that there wouldn't be any major scale ups in the country. Toyota is surviving mostly from the sales of Fortuner/Innova and they have been milking it for some time now with no new products. Don't even get me started on the rebadged Maruti cars.

Ford on the other hand, doesn't have a strong contender in their line-ups (except Ford Endeavour) and the ones in the market like EcoSport have sort of become outdated. Add to that, the lesser support from the government and collection of more taxes has made the Indian automotive market an unpredictable and risky business - why would anybody take a huge risk of investing a chunk in India when the whole scenario and the turnover from the country isn't that high.

Over the years, what I've seen is that Indian market is a very lucrative market when looked from the outside. But only when you get into the business, you realise the investment, time and effort put may not be worth.

Slightly disagree with this point, mate ... Ford India started its operations in late 1995 and in another 6 months (May 1996) Hyundai India started its operations - both started their business in the outskirts of Chennai. Both went through the same tax structure and see where Hyundai India is now and where is Ford India...

It's about having a clear business vision and strategy. Ford has the foundation in India; however they need to work on sustaining the business first and then they can slowly grow, rather than planning to exit.

[ACM]

I feel trying to find contract manufacturing job work or to sell of excess manufacturing capacities to new players does not necessarily indicate that Ford plans to pack up and leave.

It is logical in business to optimise operations.

It on the other hand could be an indicator of things to come but not necessarily.

[JayPrashanth]

Ford India is on the verge of quitting the Indian market. It's no longer a matter of if but when. There are multiple telltale signs:

1. Ford dealers have been shutting shop steadily, across India, and only those who want a lower entry barrier into the dealership business are setting up/taking over Ford dealerships.

2. Used Ford prices have been plummeting, and used car dealers have been factoring in Ford's exit during car valuations.

3. The Ford Mahindra JV fell through, and Ford began exploring other alternatives, most of them involving Ford scaling back operations heavily/entirely. A token presence is as good as quitting. Remember the last throes of HM-Mitsubishi?

4. Ford India has yet to release a strongly worded presser, refuting media reports. This, even when doubts have been cast on their very existence. The tweets are rubbish. Don't go by anodyne statements that don't say anything worthwhile.

For all those booking EcoSports, it is a RISK. Don't do it if you can help it. GM car owners don't have adequate service support, and Ford owners are likely to face a similar situation. No sensible dealer will run a service operation for over say 3-4 years should the principal quit. Even that time is basically a buffer used by the dealer to hunt for other opportunities while maintaining cash flow.

I drive a 2010 Figo TDCI, 120K done, and still on the stock clutch. It's a really fun car and I'll keep it till it runs. I also just cancelled plans for an EcoSport AT. A real shame, for it's one of the better automatic compact SUVs sold here.

The Indian economy is in shambles, and the giddy growth that the auto sector saw in the past may not be replicated anytime soon. In such circumstances, weak players die.

Cheers,

Jay

[NovemberKing_91]

Hi,

While searching the internet, I came across a post which detailed some of the developments which might happen in case Ford does quit the market.

It says that we must not worry about the warranties, servicing and parts availability for the next 10 years. The only bit of worry would be the resale value.

The link to the document is : https://www.91wheels.com/news/ford-i...roduction-stop

Is this how things work or this is an ideal case being discussed?

[@Debanshu_B]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Ford looks to wrap up India factory ops soon ?
=====
GTO's earlier posts on the topic:

Appears to be Media speculation. Fors is already working to launch the new upgraded ecosport.