[parrys]

Two things:
1. About Time
2. Good Riddance

Was wondering after GM packed up, when this news would eventually pop up.

They just did not care about the market demand / sentiment.
Been in India for decades, but still don't know the pulse.
How long can you be a one car wonder? (EcoSport)

No doubt, almost all of their cars (even back in the day) used to drive well. Well built.
They have such good cars on sale abroad, but we're just getting EcoSport facelifts y-o-y.

But what's the point when sales are not worth mentioning?

If a brand can't figure out a way forward for years, when competition cars are moving generations ahead, this was a serious problem which needed to be addressed.

I have owned cars since 2008, aged 31 right now. On the 3rd car for myself and a few more for the family; but we've never walked in a Ford showroom till date.
I am sure there are many like me.

Now some might say we have poor taste in cars, don't know a thing or two about cars that handle well and what not, but to each his own...

[Stribog]

Whatever happened to Ford (and Honda) India? - A rhetorical question though, as I will attempt to provide some answers myself.

Growing up in the 80's, the first mass market, affordable car in India (and no, I don't think the likes of the Standard 2000, Rover Mondeo etc were all mass market) was the Ford Mondeo.

It had super duper hits like the Ford Fiesta (the original Fiesta), the runaway sales chart scorcher, the Ikon and then first sub 4mtr SUV the Ecosport.

They had the market, they had the scale, they had halo products and then they dropped the ball entirely.

Despite a headstart on Hyundai, they never had and don't have the reach of the sales and ASS network Hyundai. Hyundai penetrated into tier 2 towns in the mid 2000's and then hit even tier 3 towns. Ford had a few dealers in a major metro like Chennai.

Mid 2000's and their spares were for some reason associated with being inordinately expensive, which they fixed but the word was out and the market believes what the market believes. It was not until 2013 iirc that Ford even sold their spares to non authorised service centres! Bad move Ford, Bad move.

Then Ford fell into the Renault and Toyota trap - Have a sucessful model? In this case the Ecosport...never launch a new gen, just endless facelifts = more profits. Except the Koreans and even MS launched sub 4 mtr, and CSUV's after designing it from scratch and stole the market.

The Blue Oval also decided, "Meh, the Indian market ? Just provide them nonsense old platforms and it will sell".

Look at their launches!

Ford Fusion - failure
Fiesta Classic - did okay but again it was just trying to revive an Indian auto market classic.
Global Fiesta - failure
Figo - middling success.

Where is the Ka - imagine Ford launched this brilliant hatch in a hatch crazy market in 1997-98, the volume it would have had and not given to the likes of the Santro. Santro launched in this period and was a roaring, raging success, by the time the KA in its Figo avatar launched in India (2010) it was a decade late and had ceded a lot of the hatchback space to MS and HMIL.

The Fusion was a visionary product in India, it saw the CSUV craze and was launched a good decade before the Duster set it on fire, the ecosport was the first proper sub 4mtr SUV, so why not bring in the Territory in the mid 2010's?

Very sad to see such iconic marquees struggle in our market, esp when they have such a vast product portfolio that they have every product the Indian market demands.

Lazy management lead them to their doom. Lazy in the sense, launching outdated (or in some cases advanced) products which the market was not ready for = DOA.

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Ford in my opinion cant succeed as a mass market brand in India. But they have somewhat premium brand recall in India. I think they should stay, and minimize operations to the extent, that they sell only large SUVs/pickups starting with Endeavor. I also believe they should launch the F150 here. Basically reposition themselves as a premium SUV brand.

The Ikon and Ecosport sold in very large numbers, their product offerings like the Figo are priced at mass market levels.

Ford has mixed positioning and an outdated portfolio.

[sramanat]

I can't fathom what happened here. It has all the elements of a b-school case study for sure. Seems like yesterday when my FIL was waiting for about a year to get his Ecosport. That too after email exchanges with their Marketing team. That was (and is, in some quarters) the quintessential SUV. They could have easily launched 2 derivatives of this car - a 4.3m 5 seater and a 4.7m 7 seater and milked the market FWIW. Were the Dearborn engineers too busy developing cars for other markets? Couldn't the Indian team make more cars with the same platform? Ford India probably couldn't bring in numbers to the global balance sheet, but could have easily been a self sustaining division at the least.

As a last ditch, the India team should hire Alan Mulally for a year to head this division and see how it goes.

[SPARKled]

I think speculating and hoping for new Ford launches to rescue themselves is a long gone reality. Not going to happen. Car companies don't run on sentiments and wishlists and launching new products is not a simple thing. The end is near and it was inevitable since the new Ford Figo twins bombed as that was the Nissan Magnite moment for them and they failed at it miserably.

[Nithesh_M]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

l

My view is they are staying, otherwise why will they invest further into a facelift Ecosport, Figo AT, etc.

Didn't Chevy seize production and continue exporting models to other countries here till they sold the plant to MG?

I think Ford will do the same. Just waiting for a buyer for the plant so the Ola equation is being discussed.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Stribog

Growing up in the 80's, the first mass market, affordable car in India (and no, I don't think the likes of the Standard 2000, Rover Mondeo etc were all mass market) was the Ford Mondeo.

IIRC the Ford Mondeo (Second Generation) was launched in India in 2002. I've driven one and I also know how eye-watering the parts costed. A couple of lakhs for those beautiful headlamps anyone? Eventually many Mondeos were left rotting at Dealership service centers because the customers didn't see the value in repairing them.

The Mondeo was a great driver's car. No doubt about it. But sadly it also played a good role in associating Ford with high-service costs.

So which Mondeo are you referring to be for the mass market and also the inference to the 1980s?

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by kiku007

IIRC the Ford Mondeo (Second Generation) was launched in India in 2002. I've driven one and I also know how eye-watering the parts costed. A couple of lakhs for those beautiful headlamps anyone? Eventually many Mondeos were left rotting at Dealership service centers because the customers didn't see the value in repairing them.

The Mondeo was a great driver's car. No doubt about it. But sadly it also played a good role in associating Ford with high-service costs.

So which Mondeo are you referring to be for the mass market and also the inference to the 1980s?

I knew my phrasing would get me in trouble

Broadly what I wanted to say is, luxury cars were seen as rarified unicorns in the India of the 80's and 90's (and unavailable before this period anyway for the most part). The late 90's, early 2000's then saw the iconic Octavia and Mondeo in the D segment (but back then D segment meant luxury). It made luxury much more mainstream, these 2 looked nice, had very powerful engines (when 50 bhp motors were the norm), some nice features.

It massified the high end markets, does this make sense?

As to spares, I already covered it, not just Mondeo but even the bog standard Ikon was far more expensive to maintain compared to its closest peers.

[TrackDay]

I had always hoped players which were weak would take inspiration with how Tata Motors turned things around and gained market share. Seems like the Americans are not really that interested. In the end the loss is truly going to be for us consumers who would lose certain realms of driving pleasure. I hope this news doesn't come to fruition and that the brand can sustain it's operations by pulling one last trick out of it's hat.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by 400notout

Should I take this Indication and cancel? This was my number one concern on booking a Ford.

The sales person was very confident about Fords future plans.

If it isn't too late do cancel, not worth risking the money.
Sales people will usually tell you what is told to them and out of experience I can tell they're also not that updated with the developments.
Also why would they/the company tell anyone about their exit plans, that leaves them and the dealers with dead stock.

I don't think it's a matter of if but more of when. The downhill slide began with the failed venture with Mahindra.
A company like Ford after so many years and sales in India will only look for a JV if they're looking to exit, IMHO.

Sad to see another good car maker exit but that's how it is, a matter of months if you ask me rather than years.

Even if they do exit, the existing cars, spares and workshops should be good for at least 5 years or more of regular maintenance, not sure after that but resale will plummet when they exit.

[avishar]

The automotive world is a very different place today.

Gone are those days of empire building when an automaker's worth was based on the number of lands and markets that they had conquered. Carmakers, desperate to break into every market possible were even buying off marques to gain a foothold. They wanted to be the top steps of the sales charts, with countless factories and operations spread out across the world.

But today, it is about protecting what is profitable and getting rid of the rest, even at the cost of downsizing. Think of GM, who, after more than half-a-century of European presence had no qualms selling of Vauxhall/Opel and exiting the massive EU market lock-stock-and-barrel. Honda has also given up on Europe, preferring to concentrate on USA instead. Automakers are no longer interested in breaking into the South Korean market or the Japanese market, and doesn't have the patience to sit around till India, Africa or even Latam can become large markets/profitable.

This isn't just about American carmakers. Even Toyota has stopped expanding across the world and is happy with their core markets. Infact Toyota makes most of its profits from Japan, a place where its market-share is almost gauranteed. In a way so does Hyundai in India - a country where its prospects are better than China.

Ford will probably be making more from the Bronco than they would even if they stuck around for the next 10 years in India.

Also, carmakers are tidying up their books and getting rid of the deadwood because the times are uncertain going ahead. They need to competitive in the C.A.S.E (Connected, Autonomous, Shared & Electric) world, for which they have to spend tens to hundreds of billions of dollars, the money which cannot be wasted in writing-down emerging market losses. As it is, it's not like these companies have large sums stashed away anyway, because the automaking industry has not been growing much or has been profitable over the last few years.

This is reason why there is such a rash of mergers, acquisitions and partnerships going on. GM is going to make electric cars for Honda, Daimler and BMW joining their shared mobility brands, VW and Ford are investing together in autonomous cars, OEMs tying up with Big Tech and in the end just straight-up merging with each other to weather the storm, like in the case of Stellantis.

So, the bottom line is, even though India might be the Last Frontier, carmakers don't care anymore. They are happy to give away the market to Suzuki + Hyundai + (Tata & Mahindra). The investment and gestation period involved in creating a successful operation in India is too long and (according to them) too late to seize marketshare.

The one guy who is going against the tide seems to be Volkswagen Group, who understands the challenges but still wants to hold onto their base in India and eventually grow as the market matures. It is not surprising to see why, Volkswagen - even though they are very profitable - they are still Euro-centric with little success in RoW outside China. And in China, JV setups would mean that even though might be selling millions of cars, their share of the profit attributable to the parent is pretty small.

This is actually the reason why Citroen/PSA Peugeot is also interested in India. PSA is very Euro-heavy in terms of their sales and revenue and unlike VW they are aren't even big in China. Ofcourse now as a part of Stellantis they have a proxy presence in USA, but with Europe being a market which is mostly saturated and on a decline, PSA needed to find a future growth market, hence India.

[abhishek46]

Ford is still managing to sell ~5000 cars per month.

If these rumors go mainstream, then it is very likely that will lose a huge chunk of their sales.

If they continue to lose sales due to rumors, then the day won't be far. when they have to close down for real.

[vigvr]

I'm seeing Ford Figo ATs pop up on our CarPal's network dealers' stock lists. Looks like something is coming up

1.2L Petrol Titanium AT and 1.2L Petrol Titanium+ AT vehicles. Not sure if there's a new 'Titanium +' trim or it is code for the BLU variant.

More than anything else, I'm hoping to see return of Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration with their touchscreens!

[shancz]

Originally Posted by avishar

Europe being a market which is mostly saturated and on a decline, PSA needed to find a future growth market, hence India.

Am I right in thinking that EU rushing in to get rid of ICE vehicles and passing regulations would mean a lot of research, technology and resources on ICE vehicles would have been made redundant while India offers a strong growth potential for ICE vehicles for at least the next 20 years owing to our developing status and young population of potential buyers ?

The research, tech and resources would be put to good use with tweaks and localisation.

[Marauder]

Slightly OT but the tax structure on automobiles is killing the industry. All the big global players are vary of making huge investments in our country because their ‘truly global’ products end up being priced out of the segment. As a result, we end up with a slew of contraptions in the market. I know people will take offence to the statement that their cars are contraptions but the truth is that the automakers are not launching their global models due to the price sensitive nature of our market, which is compounded by the illogical and exorbitant taxes on cars.

I remember that Toyota’s boss was flamed on this forum when he criticised the tax policies but at the end of the day, companies will be vary of investing in the market when they know that their products will not bring in the return on investment. It’s not a coincidence that so many global carmakers have exited the market and new players tiptoe their way into the market.

It’s really frustrating when I see that smaller markets like Malaysia, Philippines and South Africa get global models from all these manufacturers but we have to settle for their “cost engineered” products.

Even Suzuki, for whom India is a bread and butter market, is slow to launch their global models like the Jimny and Vitara in India. We may label them as lazy or incompetent but it’s no coincidence that each and every carmaker is vary of investing heavily in India. Renault-Nissan are only focusing on low cost models specifically made for emerging markets, VW-Skoda made a big noise about localising their platform but the Kushaq is still considered overpriced. Toyota is happy milking the Innova and Fortuner, and rebadging Marutis.

I feel the situation will worsen after the pandemic subsides as the need for personal mobility will reduce.

[anjan_c2007]

A twenty five year innings by Ford in India appears to be ending. Was always thinking of their plans to come up with a silver jubilee edition (of the company's innings) of either the Ecosport or the Figo/ Aspire/ Freestyle siblings. Ford Motors was here in a big way till 1955 or so earlier, but exited when the import duties were hiked and local manufacturing only to select licenced players was made mandatory in the iron curtain "licence raj."

The second coming of Ford, U.K. was as a F.C. truck maker in he early 1980's in a venture with their old partners M/s Simpson and Co, Madras, but the venture bombed as the market leaders Tata and Ashok Leyland offered stiff competition.

During the recent years, Ford has exited from their Indonesian and Japanese operations in 2016 citing them as unviable. Assembly at Broadmeadows plant, Australia also ended on 7th October 2016, ending Ford's 88 year history in Australia.

Ford's statement to exit India is simply unpalatable:-

"The uncertainty in the long-term growth prospects of the auto industry has resulted in serious challenges for Ford, including capacity utilization."

To sum it up, our auto industry has been growing by leaps and bounds ever since Ford made its entry in India. We are now among the Top 5 car makers. But Ford has missed the bus sometime, somewhere, while other top automakers have only grown and grown. Ford was never a strong or a serious player in our market.

Ford's Chennai plant according to the Times of India report has the capacity to produce 2 lakh cars and 3.4 lakh engines, while the Sanand, Gujarat plant has the capacity to make 2.4 lakh cars and 2.7 lakh engines. In this backdrop, the June 2021 sale was less than 2800 units.

They have never tried to introspect the reasons for their failure but with such tardy sales figures continued to manufacture cars routinely over the last two plus decades. I simply wonder as to why their marketing team does not highlight safety of their cars over the less safe ones as their USP.