[hserus]

Originally Posted by officer416

Don’t want this type of bargaining technique become a trend in India. Given how Mastercard and Twitter got treated don’t seem Indian government really cares if these companies leave.

They won’t care IF there is a viable local alternative for the lost jobs (etc)

State government fearing lost jobs and central government fearing a revenue and tax loss more than anything else.

A lot of moves can be written down to plain old protectionism more than anything else, or in some cases petty arguments with the company in question.

Ford is a comparatively minor player here but given MasterCard, Twitter etc that you mentioned it is just about time for the USTR to take a hand. The stakes get a lot higher when that happens.

I seriously doubt that the long term consequences (both direct as well as other consequences caused by these) of such forcing out of companies has been carefully considered at all.

[hortons15]

Originally Posted by purb_du

In the end, am just made to wonder that countries as small as Bhutan, Nepal or Bangladesh(altough mostly imports) or our eastern neighbors enjoy such modern product offerings.

Sri Lanka too. I was told it would be like India in the 80s over there but I was pleasantly surprised seeing cars we don't have like the RAV4 and barricaded expressways.

Maybe we'll have auto policy changes soon and get better choices. Fingers crossed.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by hserus

They won’t care IF there is a viable local alternative for the lost jobs (etc)

I seriously doubt that the long term consequences (both direct as well as other consequences caused by these) of such forcing out of companies has been carefully considered at all.

I am sure that these factories will be taken over by other companies. American companies have this high handed attitude when entering developing markets. They want a red carpet treatment but don’t want to put in any efforts to succeed. Not anymore or at least not in India.

At this time I am optimistic that local startups can deliver more value to people by delivering products from these factories that are actually been put effort into.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by officer416

I am sure that these factories will be taken over by other companies. American companies have this high handed attitude when entering developing markets. They want a red carpet treatment but don’t want to put in any efforts to succeed. Not anymore or at least not in India.

At this time I am optimistic that local startups can deliver more value to people by delivering products from these factories that are actually been put effort into.

Ford has been in India since the 1920s, and manufacturing in India since the mid 90s. Not sure what "red carpet treatment" you're talking about. Or what local startups are manufacturing all that much (besides Ola's electric scooters, and Tata / Mahindra in cars). Everything else is Japanese, German etc technology.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by hserus

Ford has been in India since the 1920s, and manufacturing in India since the mid 90s. Not sure what "red carpet treatment" you're talking about. Or what local startups are manufacturing all that much (besides Ola's electric scooters, and Tata / Mahindra in cars). Everything else is Japanese, German etc technology.

Startups like Ola and Ather have the competency going forward to produce electric cars. Before 2009 there was no Tesla, Rivian or Lucid in America, but they are there now. Rimac from Croatia was an unknown brand to many, but now are an integral part of VW group. New entrants in the market are not just limited to traditional automakers going forward.

It's a sorry state to be in for a company who is in country for over 100 years then if they have to wave the white flag.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by officer416

Startups like Ola and Ather have the competency going forward to produce electric cars. .

Hopefully. They're at tiny e scooters at the moment. Hopefully in the far distant future they evolve competency to produce jet planes, who knows?

[hserus]

Originally Posted by officer416

ou mocking our capability with your sarcasm because you think Uncle Sam is the most supreme is clear indication of the mindset how much our people underestimate our own talent.

What I have seen several times in the past, across governments from all major parties, is that we have failed to bring large scale semiconductor / chip production in India, we couldn't manufacture even simple ISP / telecom grade network gear (nothing as complex as a router) .. projects that were launched for these, and in at least some cases, where people I know sweated blood to make it work, fell through badly.

You are completely underestimating the problem.

ps: Almost all the Indian engineering truly top talent doesn't work for Indian companies. See if you can claw them back from Cisco, Google (etc).

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by hserus

What I have seen several times in the past, across governments from all major parties, is that we have failed to bring large scale semiconductor / chip production in India, .

Back in early 2000's, Intel announced that they were scouting for sites for manufacturing or assembly of chips. India rolled out policies and SOPS. Intel stated, all that it fine but you need to have clear Semiconductor Policy and a level playing field. Define the policy and they would be happy to respond within 3 months.

The policy never came in the defined period. AMD promised a fab, the only stone that was turned was a Foundation stone. Long story short - Vietnam got the assembly factory but was hampered by poor local skills (imagine if this was in India - no problem!). The Fab unit went to Dalian - now sold to Hynix. I guess various US China / IP issues caused this sale.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ajmat

The policy never came in the defined period. AMD promised a fab, the only stone that was turned was a Foundation stone. Long story short - Vietnam got the assembly factory but was hampered by poor local skills (imagine if this was in India - no problem!). The Fab unit went to Dalian - now sold to Hynix. I guess various US China / IP issues caused this sale.

This same chalta hai attitude hasn’t gone away at all. Which is why I’m not so sanguine that any major automaker can leave India and expect any of the local players to fill their shoes that easily.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by hserus

You are completely underestimating the problem.

ps: Almost all the Indian engineering truly top talent doesn't work for Indian companies. See if you can claw them back from Cisco, Google (etc).

I am not underestimating the problem, I am seeing it around me that lot of people are moving back and starting their own startups. It's not going to change overnight, but things have improved drastically in past few years.

I rather work towards solving a problem than doing nothing and complaining about what all is wrong.
I don't think Indian consumer will mourn the exit of Ford just like no one cares about GM and Fiat.

[M00M]

Ford India is a lost case. Instead of working on its skills and heritage it is doing a slap stick job just like Honda India is doing.

Ford India should localise and launch the Mustang Mach EV in India. Launch the petrol Mustang and concentrate on global products.

The Mustang Mach E would itself bring the company much needed sales and revenue and business. At a reasonable appropriate price with heavy localisation to keep costs in check.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by M00M

Ford India should localise and launch the Mustang Mach EV in India. Launch the petrol Mustang and concentrate on global products.

And how many units of that do you think would sell in the Indian market? They can bring almost any CBU to India I am sure but how is that going to make any difference to their plants in India?

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by hserus

Most of Ford's manufacturing in India is for their export market - Ecosports sold worldwide for example are made in India. Production for the local market is a small fraction of their plant capacity.

Yes indeed. The Ford Puma has replaced (or is replacing) the ES in developed markets and I don't recall reading about the actual next-generation ES. The Figo/Aspire/Ka is a gone case as well. So yes I don't see any reason for Ford India to actually have a full scale manufacturing plant.

I was referring to a CKD/CBU approach. The Endy is made from kits from Thailand right?

Originally Posted by amalji

Let's be honest here. If a car manufacturer has to be super successful in India, they have to offer bling ( read features ) at a cheap cost.

I consider Ford as a brand which doesn't dilute its core values to bring down the price.

I know what you mean but if we are being honest then Ford has diluted it's core values in India.

• First generation Ford Figo: It reeked of cost-cutting. I don't want to get into the details but it's pretty obvious that were ready to lower the bar to get volumes.
• Ford Fiesta Classic (Post 2010): This car's interiors borrowed heavily from the Figo and the results are obvious again. Compare the dashboard plastics and entertainment system in this to the pre 2010 non-classic Fiestas.
• Second generation Figo and Aspire: Enough has been said about how Ford tried to replicate the Maruti Swift and ended up in no-man's land.

Originally Posted by hserus

And how many units of that do you think would sell in the Indian market? They can bring almost any CBU to India I am sure but how is that going to make any difference to their plants in India?

It's really amusing when people dream of cars like the Mustang Mach-E or the Bronco in India. It hasn't dawned upon them that Ford doesn't even plans to have RHD versions of these to be made and sold in developed markets like Australia.

[sanchari]

Originally Posted by officer416

FGiven how Mastercard and Twitter got treated don’t seem Indian government really cares if these companies leave.
...

Totally off topic, but Mastercard is not following the data localization norms. EU and China and other countries have even stricter data localization norms that these companies are happily adhering to. The EU data localization/access EU GDPR resulted in many companies investing millions of dollars to adhere to the laws. In China, not only does data need to stay in country, but at least one Chinese company needs to be partner to it. My company spent millions in adhering to EU GDPR and Chinese rules, not to mention other countries rules too. To claim that insisting on data localization for India is harassing them is taking a very US-centric view. Data is the new oil, and there is no reason to give it away for free. Every country is protecting its data. Also, having data centers in India will also aid in employment within India and consequent building up of skills to build and run such data centers within India.

[Apex1815]

Originally Posted by 400notout

Nice, this after I, an ex GM owner went ahead and took a leap of faith and booked an Ecosport

Should I take this Indication and cancel? This was my number one concern on booking a Ford.

The sales person was very confident about Fords future plans and also said that if not for the pandemic, the Ford Territory would have been launched.

One of my know person had Daewoo Martiz in the Year 1999 (Daewoo left India some where in 2000..)

Then he purchased Chevrolet Beat (GM also left India)

Now he is having Ford Ecosport....

Once the company officially announces closure of the operations, the resale value of vehicle will prominently fall.
I am not sure about the company commitment or seriousness in after sales service after they shut down the sales operations.

Gradually, higher attrition will be seen in service centre staff (which also affects the consistency in service) and few service centres closing shortly as the service station owners/investors may not expect a good business in the long run.