[JJay]

Originally Posted by jaysonline

I would say Elevate is just a mediocre product made for Indian consumers like Amaze. But due to the good ground clearance and time tested engine-transmission combo, it will still sell decent numbers.

Elevate was a global unveil if I am not wrong and why do you think that Amaze is a mediocre product? Is it because it is exclusively made in India? Well, for your knowledge, mediocre Amaze is being exported to some African and SAARC countries and has 4 star safety rating.

Now coming to Elevate,
1] Have you seen it in person?
2] Have you driven one? or even sat in one?
3] Have you experienced its handling?
4] Have you experienced its interior quality, plastics, materials etc?
4] Do you know its safety rating?
5] Most importantly, do you know its price?

Its dimension is at par with competition, ground clearance can shame some BoF Off roaders. Engine is renowned Ivtec - it is old but by no means a boring, in fact in our family people always prefer NAs over Turbocharged units. Recently drove friend's Carens with 1.4 Turbo Petrol, man that thing had horrible horrible low end. It was my first encounter with Turbo Petrols and I was disappointed. For my kind of light foot driving my 1.8 Altis drives way better and has predictable power delivery than that 1.4 Turbo Gasoline eventhough power figures are similar. In college days, I loved revving friend's Amaze and Brio, at higher rpms Ivtec's sound is pure symphony, power was more than adequate and most importantly, never managed to stall it. It is still with her and drives like a charm after 8 years and over 135k kms without even a single breakdown. Please enlighten us what made you think that Elevate is a "mediocre" product like Amaze though you yourself stated it has time-tested engine transmission combo.

[TribalRoar]

Originally Posted by JJay

Its dimension is at par with competition, ground clearance can shame some BoF Off roaders. Engine is renowned Ivtec - it is old but by no means a boring, in fact in our family people always prefer NAs over Turbocharged units. Recently drove friend's Carens with 1.4 Turbo Petrol, man that thing had horrible horrible low end.

The Naturally Aspirated engines are my preference too. I am thinking of making the Elevate my first Honda Car. One of the reasons being the famed Honda 1.5L ivtec about which I have been hearing for many years. For me Low end power and torque is essential since I reside in one of the most hilliest regions of the country.

Can you give me an appraisal of the Honda 1.5L engine (especially low end performance) from your experience and how it stacks up against the other 1.5L NA engines from maruti, hyundai and the other carmakers in the market?

[mathlesh]

I am currently in the process of searching for a new car, and I was eagerly anticipating the launch of a particular model. However, I must admit that I feel somewhat disappointed after witnessing the launch. In comparison to its competitors, this car seems to be lacking in several key areas, both in terms of features and aesthetics. I find it puzzling that Honda has chosen not to incorporate ventilated seats, an upgraded infotainment system, a 360-degree camera, or a hybrid option. These seem to be standard offerings provided by other manufacturers, and it's unfortunate that Honda has not included them in this particular model.

[Artyom]

Originally Posted by TribalRoar

The Naturally Aspirated engines are my preference too. I am thinking of making the Elevate my first Honda Car. One of the reasons being the famed Honda 1.5L ivtec about which I have been hearing for many years. For me Low end power and torque is essential since I reside in one of the most hilliest regions of the country.

Can you give me an appraisal of the Honda 1.5L engine (especially low end performance) from your experience and how it stacks up against the other 1.5L NA engines from maruti, hyundai and the other carmakers in the market?

NA Engines are known for offering good low end torque irrespective of what manufacturer it is. Its by design for a NA engine to offer a linear accelaration which is best for sedate driving. iVtec is the undisputed king when it comes to NA engines and there is no debate on that. Hyundai also makes pretty refined engines but still a notch lower than iVtecs. I own a 1.6 Litre petrol Hyundai and its far superior than the current gen 1.5 Litres in Hyundai . I still would rate iVtec a notch better than the competition. The rev happiness , shorter gear shifts and good FE of a iVtec is unmatched. I would personally buy Elevate just for the engine alone. IMHO Elevate is a no non sense vehicle with the basic required features and should satisfy an average buyer easily. Still I would suggest you take a TD of Creta and Elevate to notice the difference yourself.

[JJay]

Originally Posted by TribalRoar

The Naturally Aspirated engines are my preference too. I am thinking of making the Elevate my first Honda Car. One of the reasons being the famed Honda 1.5L ivtec For me Low end power and torque is essential since I reside in one of the most hilliest regions of the country.

Since your location is beautiful city of Kohima, I would suggest if your are planning a car with NA engine, go with manual transmission only. Never, I am saying it again, Never ever go with Auto transmission (CVT) in your remotest thought (relevant only for NA Petrols only). We once visited Saputara (small hill station in South Gujarat) in our relative's City CVT with 5 pax and it was not a pleasant experience, it wasn't that bad but I wouldn't recommend if hills and mountains are your daily affair. Biggest benefit of Ivtec is its linear silky smooth power delivery and jerk free nature (& exhaust note ). Low end torque has never been Ivtec's strong point but from my limited experience, it is far easier to drive NAs in 20-30 kmph moving traffic than jerky Turbo Petrols. For newer Marutis with "C" series engines, I have heard mostly not so good things so wouldn't recommend.

To be honest, If I were living in beautiful hills, my preference would be "Diesel" for that instant low end torque and efficiency. I would recommend you to try out Bolero Neo, Scorpio Classic and Nexon Diesel, you may try other diesels from Hyundai and Kia but I have driven these 3 extensively (when Bolero Neo and Scorpio Classic were TUV 300 and Scorpio respectively) before finalizing the Honda. (Not recommending Scorpio-N and Omega Twins because of their size - width). Still, if you go ahead with Honda specifically Elevate (from our experience with brand Honda), go with manual and your car would serve you comfortably for years with occasional wide grin (when you redline her ).

One extra point I want to add is that each and every Naturally Aspirated Petrol engines in our family have Proven to be an extremely reliable including Hyundai, Ford, MS, Honda and Toyota.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Artyom

NA Engines are known for offering good low end torque irrespective of what manufacturer it is. Its by design for a NA engine to offer a linear accelaration which is best for sedate driving. iVtec is the undisputed king when it comes to NA engines and there is no debate on that. Hyundai also makes pretty refined engines but still a notch lower than iVtecs. I own a 1.6 Litre petrol Hyundai and its far superior than the current gen 1.5 Litres in Hyundai . I still would rate iVtec a notch better than the competition. The rev happiness , shorter gear shifts and good FE of a iVtec is unmatched. I would personally buy Elevate just for the engine alone. IMHO Elevate is a no non sense vehicle with the basic required features and should satisfy an average buyer easily. Still I would suggest you take a TD of Creta and Elevate to notice the difference yourself.

NA engines are not good at producing power just off idle, its something GDi engines are very good at, they are almost diesel like in that sense. Drive the Sonet 1.0 GDi, that is an impressive drive train.

1.6L engine of Hyundai when installed in Verna 2017 model year was superior to the Gen4 City`s iVtec in every way. It was not around for long and the CRDi was the obvious choice those days.

If you drive the iVtec in a track, it will be a different scene of course but for road use, not ideal.

The iVTec in Gen5 City feels different , it seems to have fixed the poor city driveability of iVtec engines finally but at the cost of refinement. Still Gen5 city is what I call the real city , MT of course.

Given the number of vehicles Maruti\ Toyota has managed to sell without having a turbo engine, lets just say Elevate`s failure will not be because of the engine.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by mayjay

I also could not spot any Isofix points, that is something very basic and I hope this is not a miss from Honda.

The Elevate has ISOFIX anchorages and also appears to be i-Size compatible, an improvement over the City which is not (the Thai one is).

[Deamon0508]

Originally Posted by TribalRoar

The Naturally Aspirated engines are my preference too. I am thinking of making the Elevate my first Honda Car. One of the reasons being the famed Honda 1.5L ivtec about which I have been hearing for many years. For me Low end power and torque is essential since I reside in one of the most hilliest regions of the country.

Can you give me an appraisal of the Honda 1.5L engine (especially low end performance) from your experience and how it stacks up against the other 1.5L NA engines from maruti, hyundai and the other carmakers in the market?

The 1.5 iVTEC is pretty much the best NA engine that you can buy for reasonable sum of money. I've driven the gen-4 City extensively and with varying loads, it'll never disappoint at any time except for when you want it to reach silly speeds really quickly or maintain a low engine RPM while cruising at triple digits. The NVH is fantastic, and the longevity is unmatched. But be advised, service at Honda ASS can be a bit expensive if you're not paying attention.

[evilminstrel]

It is unfortunate that Indian users judge the car by the features (ventilated seats, sunroof, keyhole, and what not) and talk less about the design. I think Honda did a fantastic job. And given the Indian Market condition, Honda has brought a car which can be a significant change.
I think we need to understand this:

• I think the cost of Honda Elevate will decide everything. This can be a clever move by Honda or a move that may fall flat at its face due to wrong pricing.
• The features that we talk about (ventilated seats, panoramic sunroof etc) so much comes under the top variant of competitors. Most of the Indian buyers rather choose variants with no/small sunroof for a lesser price for the simple reason that the utility is little for sunroofs in India. Why would they want to pay more for panoramic sunroofs with less utility, but tied up with the higher variants with the cost included.
• The hullabaloo of sunroof is beyond comprehension. I have been using car with sunroof since last 9 years. I would have opened it may be 10 times. Even if I decide to open, I close it within 15 minutes owing to pollution/humidity/noise.
• Lets face it, Turbo engines may be powerful, but still cannot match the simplicity, reliability, easy maintenance, and confidence of naturally aspirated engines. This is particularly true for city drivers, office goers. Most of us are not taking highway everyday for 100 kms drive.
• If Honda strikes the chords with the mid variant buyers, or people like me who are indifferent to sunroof, they will have won the battle.

I think its too soon to say that Honda misjudged. There are lot to factors which will determine the course. Lets wait and watch. On the face of it car is fantastic and unique in design and lets hope for pricing with similar adjectives.

[Caffeinated]

Originally Posted by JJay

Since your location is beautiful city of Kohima, I would suggest if your are planning a car with NA engine, go with manual transmission only. Never, I am saying it again, Never ever go with Auto transmission (CVT) in your remotest thought (relevant only for NA Petrols only). We once visited Saputara (small hill station in South Gujarat) in our relative's City CVT with 5 pax and it was not a pleasant experience, it wasn't that bad but I wouldn't recommend if hills and mountains are your daily affair.

Wouldn't downshifting using paddle shifters help in these scenarios?

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

NA engines are not good at producing power just off idle, its something GDi engines are very good at, they are almost diesel like in that sense. Drive the Sonet 1.0 GDi, that is an impressive drive train.

1.6L engine of Hyundai when installed in Verna 2017 model year was superior to the Gen4 City`s iVtec in every way. It was not around for long and the CRDi was the obvious choice those days.

If you drive the iVtec in a track, it will be a different scene of course but for road use, not ideal.

The iVTec in Gen5 City feels different , it seems to have fixed the poor city driveability of iVtec engines finally but at the cost of refinement. Still Gen5 city is what I call the real city , MT of course.

I disagree the statement in the context. The Turbo magic comes at higher speeds, that too I would not rate it heavenly. One has to be really roaring to churn the Turbo magic and to avoid Turbo lag. In fact, sometimes it is irritating in city drives. The immediate and linear power delivery of NA engines still is more fun to drive. If you are at 80 KM/Hr already and try to overtake a vehicle at 100 KM/Hr Turbo magic comes to play. NA engines start giving you confidence at 60 KM/Hr.
If I am driving on expressways regularly, I will think about Turbo engines. Otherwise, nothing beats optimized experience of NA engines for regular city+highway+expressway drives (and add to that the reliability lower maintenance cost).

[JJay]

Originally Posted by Caffeinated

Wouldn't downshifting using paddle shifters help in these scenarios?

Short answer is, No. Tried paddle shifters, but other than increasing engine noise it contributed very less in actual acceleration. Mileage too was reduced significantly.

But, I must mention the feeling of using paddle shifters in twisties around Dang Forest, it was fun.

[pqr]

Honda Elevate pricing

The Honda Elevate seems to be a very competitive product when pitted against the 2018 Hyundai Creta facelift.



However, in 2023, Elevate doesn’t seem ready to take on segment leaders like Hyundai-Kia or Maruti-Toyota or upcoming products from Tata and Mahindra, with multiple drivetrain options.

What Honda seems to have gotten right this time is dimensions and SUV stance, but then they forgot one important ingredient - MSG (monosodium glutamate) - of this segment: right features. Maruti learned the hard way by losing 10% of its Indian market share in the last 5 years; thus, Brezza became the first Maruti product to get a single glass pane sunroof in nearly four decades of Suzuki's existence in India. Then Grand Vitara came up with a twin sliding glass pane sunroof, and not only that, but a whole host of functional and ‘wow’ features like ventilated front seats, a 360-degree camera, a heads-up display, etc.

It is pretty much clear that it is a halfhearted attempt from Honda to survive in India, and they didn’t spend R&D money to develop features specific to Indian customer segments' "needs" and "wants." This is utter disregard for the fundamental principle of marketing that says, to first look into the unmet need of a customer segment and act upon it to be competitive or make competition irrelevant. The entry of the 2019 Kia Seltos and 2020 Creta next generation is a case study in itself.

Since Honda wants to play survival strategy in India, they have to price the lone 1.5L naturally aspirated engine with two transmission options in a very sensible way, as Hyundai has gone very slow on price hikes of Creta in 2023, after the entry of the Maruti Grand Vitara. Here, let us take the Creta SX (O) variant with a 1.5L naturally aspirated engine mated to a CVT transmission as a price benchmark.



By any chance, if Honda tried to charge premium over the segment benchmark, it would certainly face the same heat as Skoda and Volkswagen are right now.



Honda needs to be reminded that without the 4th generation City, they are lagging behind the competitively priced new Verna, brand value and loyalty notwithstanding.

[YashD]

Originally Posted by vij

Which do you prefer at low speeds (20-40 kmph) and bumper to bumper traffic? Would you say both are equal to you in those aspects?

I prefer the Seltos in Bumper to Bumper traffic.
The engine feels much more responsive in part throttle especially off the line in traffic hence closing gaps feels easier whereas in the mixed bag driving scenario City edges the Seltos over its better mid range.

Let me sum up both:-

Seltos is Better in City Driveability

Low Range - Strong
Mid Range - Decent
Top End - Dead

City is better for Highway runs

Low Range - Dead
Mid Range - Strong
Top end - Decent

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

I disagree the statement in the context. The Turbo magic comes at higher speeds, that too I would not rate it heavenly. One has to be really roaring to churn the Turbo magic and to avoid Turbo lag

No man, Looks like you have not driven the new GDi engines, please try them and let us know.

Gasoline direct injection with turbo charging, its fairly new tech, not all OEMs have it, although they would love to have it.

Hyundai \ KIA GDI range, VW \Skoda TSI , Mahindra mStallion - you will not choose an NA engine afterwards, they are vastly superior.