[RedMaw]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Hi, now I am curious why did you book it? Your perspective will be an intersection of two views, I suppose.

You can checkout my previous comments. I booked it because I trusted Honda. I trusted that Honda will never compromise on safety. But lack of middle headrest and lap seat belt is making me question Honda's safety. This is a slap in the face for guys like me. If they did cost cutting even in headrest, then what else has been subjected to cost cutting. Moreover I am sure whether Honda will provide all active safety features. I am waiting for price and full features list and then might cancel the booking. If the price is right, I will keep it as stop gap until a better car arrives.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

This is a video I find quite balancing the contentions and therefore sharing for better reach.

Agreed with their perspective and am sure a lot of general buyers would relate to it. While being an enthusiast forum its understandable we are disappointed with missing Turbo/Hybrid options, fact remains for common buyers a tried & tested engine-gearbox combo would mostly be sufficient. Heck even Creta & Seltos sell more 1.5 NA than those turbos(atleast that's what I noticed in my circle).

And then what remains to be seen is what is the capacity that Honda has to manufacture & allocate for local market? I don't think they can churn out 10-15k Elevates with current capacity. Tapukara plant has a capacity of 180k cars per annum which means 15k per month.



With City & Amaze already covering around 7-8k & then some export allocations, I don't think with current capacity Honda is even aiming for any numbers close to Creta/Seltos. We might keep calling them flop if they manage to sell 3-4k Elevates per month but mostly that's the number Honda is eyeing to start with.

[venus1975]

Originally Posted by RedMaw

You can checkout my previous comments. I booked it because I trusted Honda. I trusted that Honda will never compromise on safety. But lack of middle headrest and lap seat belt is making me question Honda's safety. This is a slap in the face for guys like me. If they did cost cutting even in headrest, then what else has been subjected to cost cutting. Moreover I am sure whether Honda will provide all active safety features. I am waiting for price and full features list and then might cancel the booking. If the price is right, I will keep it as stop gap until a better car arrives.

I am not sure how you're quite confident about Honda's commitment to safety. Talking about rear seat headrest, Amaze does not have one for any of the variants. IIRC, WRV didn't have one either. So, I don't think Honda ever considered headrests as a safety feature in their Cars.

[skarthiksr]

Originally Posted by venus1975

I am not sure how you're quite confident about Honda's commitment to safety. Talking about rear seat headrest, Amaze does not have one for any of the variants. IIRC, WRV didn't have one either. So, I don't think Honda ever considered headrests as a safety feature in their Cars.

Regarding Honda's commitment to safety, both Honda City(4th gen) and Honda Jazz scored 4 stars(Adult) in Global NCAP tests. And as per Honda India's official statement(https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post5259003 (Renault Kiger, Nissan Magnite, Honda City (4th-Gen) and Honda Jazz all get 4 stars in GNCAP)), the crash tested models were on sale since 2014 and 2015 respectively. In 2014/2015 timeframe, the GNCAP tests and safety awareness were not that common in India and if Honda has managed to ship a 4 star GNCAP car back then, it does give an impression that they are serious about their commitment to safety.

And on the rear seat headrest and 3-point seatbelt aspect, 5th gen Honda City provides it as a standard and also highlights it in their brochure - "All 5 Seats 3 point ELR Seatbelts & Head Restraints". So, it is a natural expectation that they will carry forward the safety policy to the newer models, which doesn't seem to be the case with the Elevate. In fact, it is still hard for me to believe the cost cutting on this and I wrote an email about this to the Honda contacts mentioned in the Elevate press release whether the model showcased is the production version or still open to last minute changes, but got no response.

[venus1975]

Originally Posted by skarthiksr

Regarding Honda's commitment to safety, both Honda City(4th gen) and Honda Jazz scored 4 stars(Adult) in Global NCAP tests. And as per Honda India's official statement(https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post5259003 (Renault Kiger, Nissan Magnite, Honda City (4th-Gen) and Honda Jazz all get 4 stars in GNCAP)), the crash tested models were on sale since 2014 and 2015 respectively. In 2014/2015 timeframe, the GNCAP tests and safety awareness were not that common in India and if Honda has managed to ship a 4 star GNCAP car back then, it does give an impression that they are serious about their commitment to safety.

And on the rear seat headrest and 3-point seatbelt aspect, 5th gen Honda City provides it as a standard and also highlights it in their brochure - "All 5 Seats 3 point ELR Seatbelts & Head Restraints". So, it is a natural expectation that they will carry forward the safety policy to the newer models, which doesn't seem to be the case with the Elevate. In fact, it is still hard for me to believe the cost cutting on this and I wrote an email about this to the Honda contacts mentioned in the Elevate press release whether the model showcased is the production version or still open to last minute changes, but got no response.

I agree with you. It is not acceptable if the rear seat head restraints are a standard feature in the City but not in the Elevate. However, my point was that they did not provide it even in the top variant of their sub 4 meter cars earlier. Which makes me think that they didn't see it as an important safety feature.

[Razor44]

Originally Posted by venus1975

I am not sure how you're quite confident about Honda's commitment to safety. Talking about rear seat headrest, Amaze does not have one for any of the variants. IIRC, WRV didn't have one either. So, I don't think Honda ever considered headrests as a safety feature in their Cars.

Yes this lack of rear headrest is quite a deficiency from Honda. In 2020 I was considering buying the Jazz top variant to be driven primarily by my wife . But while taking test drive on the back seat over slightly uneven roads I found my head lolling about without lack of support (I am 5'10") and felt it quite unsafe. The sheepish reaction of the salesperson was confirmation enough that they too thought it was totally inexplicable. I later got the i20 instead and i am glad that i did. First the removal of the magic seats , and even if they did they should have provided standard adjustable headrests. This in my opinion is one of the main factors for the failure of Jazz apart from the weak engine performance in lower gears. In sedans the angle of the seatbacks still provide a little bit of support to the head in position but its still not adequate and I would never consider buying any car without rear adjustable headrests.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by RedMaw

You can checkout my previous comments. I booked it because I trusted Honda. I trusted that Honda will never compromise on safety. But lack of middle headrest and lap seat belt is making me question Honda's safety. This is a slap in the face for guys like me. If they did cost cutting even in headrest, then what else has been subjected to cost cutting. Moreover I am sure whether Honda will provide all active safety features. I am waiting for price and full features list and then might cancel the booking. If the price is right, I will keep it as stop gap until a better car arrives.

Although, I acknowledge that you are the best judge for what car suits you, in my opinion, you should cancel the booking.

Reason: Now here is the question of context and perspective. I am looking at Elevate with a family of 3 or 4. If I need a fifth seat in future, I will go for a bigger car. Therefore, headrest on middle seat is irrelevant for me. I think it is irrelevant for most of the family of 3 to 4 people. So, I don’t mind even if it is a cost cutting if I am getting a powerful and reliable city car, which I can also use for my cruises. It fits the bill for people like me; i.e. a family of 3 or 4/office goers/sole drivers.

Your emphasis on the middle seat is fervent. For example, I don't consider middle seat a seat at all, no matter it has three-point seatbelts or headrest. It does not exist for me. Even if I assume it is a seat, I never allow anyone to be in middle seat of my car. It just irritates me.

In any case, and with due respect to everyone's choice, I think no one deserves to to be in middle seat. And no one deserves to be next to a middle seat occupant, no matter whether it is city or seltos or creta whatever favorite one has . No leg room, no knee room, hard back, no side airbags, bodies touching, and sweat. In addition, safety is compromised- in case of collision, one can get hurt hitting the heads with people next to them, jeopardising the side passenger's well designed safety as well. Better is to go in bus- at least expectations will be low. I mean we do not keep car's trunk loaded just because it is there, right?

In general, if a middle seat (if at all you want to call it) headrest is deal breaker for someone, I think he is hunting wrong car segment. Get a bigger car, but do not let someone go through torture of middle seat occupation. .

Clearly, Honda is not inviting the middle seat occupant. And I understand why would not they for a car with these dimensions, particularly for a high GC car. In any case, I will certainly not put it against Honda, as my idea of a family car is with no occupant in the middle seat, please!

Lastly, we cannot generalize requirements vis-à-vis cars. If Honda Elevate is not a good car for one’s requirement, saying that it is totally a failure and not up to safety is not correct. Honda City and Amaze without middle seat also got 4 NCAP rating when most of the Koreans and Chinese are miserably failing the test.

Please do not understand that I favour absence of headrest/seatbelts in middle seat. I am just saying that for many of us (who needs it for office or for family of 3 to 4 people) it is just irrelevant and is not a factor. I dont mind if it is a cost cutting also. Vestigial organs- thats what a middile seat headrest and belts are today for most of the cars of this dimension. As far as price is concerned, I have stated earlier also, price is going to be determining factor and If I am getting reduced cost of Elevate by these type of cost cutting, I really dont mind. Take the sunroof away and make it a lakh cheaper- thats what I am up for!

[SedateGuy]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Reason: Now here is the question of context and perspective. I am looking at Elevate with a family of 3 or 4. If I need a fifth seat in future, I will go for a bigger car. Therefore, headrest on middle seat is irrelevant for me. I think it is irrelevant for most of the family of 3 to 4 people. So, I don’t mind even if it is a cost cutting if I am getting a powerful and reliable city car, which I can also use for my cruises. It fits the bill for people like me; i.e. a family of 3 or 4/office goers/sole drivers.

Lastly, we cannot generalize requirements vis-à-vis cars. If Honda Elevate is not a good car for one’s requirement, saying that it is totally a failure and not up to safety is not correct. Honda City and Amaze without middle seat also got 4 NCAP rating when most of the Koreans and Chinese are miserably failing the test.

As far as price is concerned, I have stated earlier also, price is going to be determining factor and If I am getting reduced cost of Elevate by these type of cost cutting, I really dont mind. Take the sunroof away and make it a lakh cheaper- thats what I am up for!

I totally agree with you about it being a family car for 4 and relatively safer at that, About the sun roof. It has absolutely no use in India and I wish they make make it optional at an extra cost across variants.

[motographer]

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Your emphasis on the middle seat is fervent. For example, I don't consider middle seat a seat at all, no matter it has three-point seatbelts or headrest. It does not exist for me. Even if I assume it is a seat, I never allow anyone to be in middle seat of my car. It just irritates me.

In any case, and with due respect to everyone's choice, I think no one deserves to to be in middle seat. And no one deserves to be next to a middle seat occupant, no matter whether it is city or seltos or creta whatever favorite one has . No leg room, no knee room, hard back, no side airbags, bodies touching, and sweat. In addition, safety is compromised- in case of collision, one can get hurt hitting the heads with people next to them, jeopardising the side passenger's well designed safety as well. Better is to go in bus- at least expectations will be low. I mean we do not keep car's trunk loaded just because it is there, right?

In general, if a middle seat (if at all you want to call it) headrest is deal breaker for someone, I think he is hunting wrong car segment. Get a bigger car, but do not let someone go through torture of middle seat occupation. .

My apologies if my reply appears rude or judgemental but this comment appears to be classist to me. Please note that not everyone who has a need for seating 5 people can afford a bigger car as you mentioned, not that this is any cheaper of a segment. Moreover, Honda itself is marketing it as a 5 seater car so who are we to defend the lack of safety for the 5th occupant. As a matter of fact, anyone who needs a car for just 3 or 4 passengers can easily buy in 1 segment lower. Buying a family car in this segment for many itself suggests a need for 5th occupant(atleast occasionally if not always). Lastly, Honda itself mentions the head support and 3 point seatbelt as a safety feature in Honda City brochure. So, I rest my case. Peace.

[Astargea]

Development of the Elevate detailed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SALX...HondaCarsIndia

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by Astargea

Development of the Elevate detailed:

0:30 - So it took them a pandemic to realize India needed a crossover? Were they sleeping for those 8 years from 2012-2019 when first Renault rocked the market with Duster & later Hyundai replaced the symbol of badi-gaadi(big car)/you-have-arrived from their very own CITY to CRETA?

You better price it right HONDA. Else all this late realization & subsequent effort in the product development won't matter

[Latheesh]

White color without chrome blings looks very nice.
It is funny to see lot of marketing jargons thrown around this simple run of the mill crossover. Even though it is based on the City, designed for India sounds scary, it just means lots of cost cutting.

Edit: my colleague is planning to upgrade from his 2013 Skoda Rapid 1.6TDi to an automatic car and is considering Elevate. I told him to check Slavia/Virtus 1.5 DSG instead. His budget is ~ 20-22 Lakhs.

[Xaos636]

Launch details were discussed at Delhi yesterday with most dealer partners in an official dealer meet, conducted just for the Elevate. As per the the discussion, bookings are to start officially on July 03, 2023 and tentative start price is revealed as 11.xx ex showroom and will match Creta SX(O) IVT price for the top variant which is around 22L on road. Will come in 4 variants and will include dual tone colors. Official price announcement will only be in September. Had a close friend of friend attend it, who is a dealer.

Hybrid was not even considered for the SUV which I found really strange. Honda's hybrid system works brilliantly well with that 4 pot motor.

[pannags]

The Elevate is stunning in motion, particularly in de-chromed white, with a well-balanced road presence that neither overpowers nor fails to impress.



Color options for the exteriors and the interiors.

[fhdowntheline]

I dont think the Indian youth or middle class cares about Honda as an aspirational brand. There was a time when all things Japan were considered to be crown jewels at home. People proudly showed off their Sony TVs, National/Panasonic VCRs. and what not.
Honda City was also in that elite group for many years. But ever since the ascent of the CSUV starting with the rugged Duster to the feature rich Creta, Honda lost the plot. And worse, they did not really have any expansion in their product line up to even try to retain any brand recall. They had better do something good with this Elevate car, otherwise they will have to "Evaluate" their future.