Indica Vista MJD vs Palio MJD vs Swift DDiS

greenhorn · 11th November 2009, 07:30

I guess tata's greatest enemy is within - their sales and service network. Till something is done about them, even the best cars will not sell

WindRide · 12th November 2009, 23:38

Greenhorn, there are quite a few tbhpians who are absolutely delighted by TATA A.S.S, with some instances of minor repairs done free of charge! Maybe you have had a one-off bad day at office with them that makes you say this?

janitha · 13th November 2009, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindRide

Greenhorn, there are quite a few tbhpians who are absolutely delighted by TATA A.S.S, with some instances of minor repairs done free of charge! Maybe you have had a one-off bad day at office with them that makes you say this?

May be it differs from place to pace. But yesterday my brother in law said he had gone to Kulathungal, Trivandrum for the last 8 services and has no complaints but plan to go to regular workshops next time onwards for obvious reasons, being reasonable charges.

greenhorn · 13th November 2009, 08:39

windride, a lot of the issues have been caused due to their own incompetence. nowadays I have a lot less issues because I prepare the car myself before giving it to them - remove floormats, wheelcaps, plastic screw caps - whatever might 'accidentally' go missing, and another detailed PDI before I take delivery each time which saves me the trouble of going back each time. This also means that I have to take delivery in the afternoons, because in the evenings, everybody would have left already. Thus minor & regular service issues become two day affairs. I wish I could trust them enough not to screw these things up, but experience has proved me wrong time and time again.

Even jkdas who had been happy with their service was put in a potentially life threatening situation due to their incompetence recently

While i do agree that they are improving, They still leave a lot to be desired.

Just like people say Linux is free only if your Time is free, Tata cars are VFM only if your time is free. As long as you can spend your time diagnosing the issues ( the indica & indica vista problems list threads here are obvious examples) so that you can tell the service advisor what to do, and what not to do, Preparing the car to give for service , and the day of the service checking up with the advisors on the status of the car, and on recieving, doing the PDI , and even then driving around for a few days wondering if something was there you missed, and finding that out on the third day ( trust me, there is something I've found every time!), going back, waiting a few hours to get it fixed/escalating to tata about it.

Yes, at the end of it, you get your car serviced/repaired to your expectations, and at a reasonable cost. But what about the days and hours of your life that you have lost?

You're a tester right? You know when dev teams start closing valid defects citing 'as designed' and deferring others simply? when they deliver code that works only partially, yet you can raise only a few minor defects for? And when you escalate, they say 'its just a few defects right?'. And when they do fix, there are always new defects introduced? and you have to test each build from scratch, and test everything instead of just a few regression scenarios? And all this takes a few weeks for something that could have been done overnight? I'm sure given several months, you may have something usable, but its very frustrating isn't it ? And you think it certainly think it could have been done better.

I'm sure you can empathize

arnabchak · 13th November 2009, 09:14

Hi

Voted to Palio MJD as the same engine does duty in both the DDIS and the Vista

Waiting period is much lower and also because of the TATA Fiat partnership, *** should also be better.

Vista build quality is a suspect too.

CrAzY dRiVeR · 13th November 2009, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnabchak

Waiting period is much lower and also because of the TATA Fiat partnership, *** should also be better.

Waiting period? It has sold only around 40 cars all over India in 3 months! Palio is clearly dead, IMO! I guess FIAT is just waiting to clear the stock.

There should be a fresh poll with the Punto MJD instead (?)!

greenhorn · 13th November 2009, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

There should be a fresh poll with the Punto MJD instead (?)!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-1-3-ddis.html

there is. its past time that this thread be put out of its misery

WindRide · 13th November 2009, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

You're a tester right? You know when dev teams start closing valid defects citing 'as designed' and deferring others simply? when they deliver code that works only partially, yet you can raise only a few minor defects for? And when you escalate, they say 'its just a few defects right?'. And when they do fix, there are always new defects introduced? and you have to test each build from scratch, and test everything instead of just a few regression scenarios? And all this takes a few weeks for something that could have been done overnight? I'm sure given several months, you may have something usable, but its very frustrating isn't it ? And you think it certainly think it could have been done better.

I'm sure you can empathize

That was a very good parallel drawn greenhorn!
IMO, there are both good and bad developers. The bad ones are obnoxious and put you thru misery. That doesnt mean ALL developers are to be hated. The good ones actually point you to some great defects lying hidden within the product and help you with your job immensely.
So i guess the good stories of TATA A.S.S cited in these forums are of experiences with the 'good guys', and you unfortunately seem to have interacted mostly with the rotten apples. Hope better luck follows you soon.

WindRide · 13th November 2009, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

.....Palio is clearly dead, ......

...only to be re-introduced in Q1 2010 with ugly exteriors. If only Fiat can give us the Palio with 2002 GTX-like exteriors and the newer Brazilian Palio's interior ... sigh!

greenhorn · 13th November 2009, 12:33

the Problem does not stop with the service centers. Even their customer support is useless mostly, and apologetic at best. The only responses (if at all) that I get are placeholder ones " we acknowledge reciept...very sorry...feedback given...assure you best service...

It would have been okay if the issue was limited to the service centers alone. Sadly, not so.

trrk · 13th November 2009, 12:40

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindRide

So i guess the good stories of TATA A.S.S cited in these forums are of experiences with the 'good guys', and you unfortunately seem to have interacted mostly with the rotten apples. Hope better luck follows you soon.

My classmate has a automobile spare part unit. On a discussion about servicing Indica cars, he advised me to shun (then the only one here) the local service centre as he did not have good experience.

Till date all my Tata cars (Sumo, Safari, Indica and Marina) have gone predominantly only to that service centre (or its branch in Ernakulam / Cochin) and I have been happy 99% of the times.

Not even the service personnel are the same at every service. It is my driver who usually gives it / takes it back.

srikanths1 · 13th November 2009, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Just like people say Linux is free only if your Time is free, Tata cars are VFM only if your time is free.

OT, Hey hey, AFA Linux is concerned, you are in the stone age come off it

. Linux is free and it rocks & you don't need to get your hands dirty to get it work - ever tried Ubuntu, everything works out of the box. Linux is like FIAT probably.. rock solid; just a little gripe here and there.

greenhorn · 13th November 2009, 13:05

srikanth, I've been running ubuntu for several years now, and they always manage to screw something up, stuff that was working perfectly earlier. First it was the Lan connection manager, then it was crappy pulseaudio, getting samba to work via wireless ( this prevents proper shutdown somehow) all these are open defects out there at launchpad- at this point, I've given up, and am waiting for the next LTS.

I've spent less time maintaining the windows installs on two PC installs than the linux install on mine. The only thing that takes up more of my time is my car

srikanths1 · 13th November 2009, 14:58

@greenhorn, Ofcoure i said its like FIAT (pun intended).. so you need to give it to Ubuntu and put up with its few gripe ;-). They are surely no TATA. I had a V2 Lxi petrol in my home and i would say its at best Windows 3.x. Maybe the current V2's are Windows 98 and probably Vista/Manza the initial XP release... If you know the gripes of each of these OS (their history) you would know what i mean. With Vista (and better with manza) they have a good opportunity to deliver SP2.

But swift DDiS any day is OS-X. You love it and live with some of the in-bred issues, it comes with.

ACM · 13th November 2009, 17:57

At the end of almost 30 pages of poll responses, what do we conclude. Actually between the Swift and the Vista - nothing, it is too close to actually give it a call, Performance has a parameter and so should in theory be quantifiable, but what does one do about comfort, looks, features and quality. The weightage in our mind of all these is different based on how we are mentally wired. So the same cars with have us conclude differently. Of course past experience with a brand is also a parameter in this.

View Poll Results: Which MJD powered Vehicle?
Indica Vista Quadrajet	204	36.96%
Palio MJD	135	24.46%
Swift VDi DDiS	197	35.69%
Other ( Fiat 500/splash/chevrolet etc )	16	2.90%
Voters: 552. You may not vote on this poll

11th November 2009, 07:30	#421
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	I guess tata's greatest enemy is within - their sales and service network. Till something is done about them, even the best cars will not sell
	() Thanks

12th November 2009, 23:38	#422
WindRide BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 682 Thanked: 479 Times	Greenhorn, there are quite a few tbhpians who are absolutely delighted by TATA A.S.S, with some instances of minor repairs done free of charge! Maybe you have had a one-off bad day at office with them that makes you say this?
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 08:39	#424
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	windride, a lot of the issues have been caused due to their own incompetence. nowadays I have a lot less issues because I prepare the car myself before giving it to them - remove floormats, wheelcaps, plastic screw caps - whatever might 'accidentally' go missing, and another detailed PDI before I take delivery each time which saves me the trouble of going back each time. This also means that I have to take delivery in the afternoons, because in the evenings, everybody would have left already. Thus minor & regular service issues become two day affairs. I wish I could trust them enough not to screw these things up, but experience has proved me wrong time and time again. Even jkdas who had been happy with their service was put in a potentially life threatening situation due to their incompetence recently While i do agree that they are improving, They still leave a lot to be desired. Just like people say Linux is free only if your Time is free, Tata cars are VFM only if your time is free. As long as you can spend your time diagnosing the issues ( the indica & indica vista problems list threads here are obvious examples) so that you can tell the service advisor what to do, and what not to do, Preparing the car to give for service , and the day of the service checking up with the advisors on the status of the car, and on recieving, doing the PDI , and even then driving around for a few days wondering if something was there you missed, and finding that out on the third day ( trust me, there is something I've found every time!), going back, waiting a few hours to get it fixed/escalating to tata about it. Yes, at the end of it, you get your car serviced/repaired to your expectations, and at a reasonable cost. But what about the days and hours of your life that you have lost? You're a tester right? You know when dev teams start closing valid defects citing 'as designed' and deferring others simply? when they deliver code that works only partially, yet you can raise only a few minor defects for? And when you escalate, they say 'its just a few defects right?'. And when they do fix, there are always new defects introduced? and you have to test each build from scratch, and test everything instead of just a few regression scenarios? And all this takes a few weeks for something that could have been done overnight? I'm sure given several months, you may have something usable, but its very frustrating isn't it ? And you think it certainly think it could have been done better. I'm sure you can empathize Last edited by greenhorn : 13th November 2009 at 08:56.
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 09:14	#425
arnabchak Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: MH-04 Posts: 1,346 Thanked: 1,162 Times	Hi Voted to Palio MJD as the same engine does duty in both the DDIS and the Vista Waiting period is much lower and also because of the TATA Fiat partnership, *** should also be better. Vista build quality is a suspect too.
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 12:33	#430
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	the Problem does not stop with the service centers. Even their customer support is useless mostly, and apologetic at best. The only responses (if at all) that I get are placeholder ones " we acknowledge reciept...very sorry...feedback given...assure you best service... It would have been okay if the issue was limited to the service centers alone. Sadly, not so.
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 13:05	#433
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	srikanth, I've been running ubuntu for several years now, and they always manage to screw something up, stuff that was working perfectly earlier. First it was the Lan connection manager, then it was crappy pulseaudio, getting samba to work via wireless ( this prevents proper shutdown somehow) all these are open defects out there at launchpad- at this point, I've given up, and am waiting for the next LTS. I've spent less time maintaining the windows installs on two PC installs than the linux install on mine. The only thing that takes up more of my time is my car
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 14:58	#434
srikanths1 BANNED Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 142 Thanked: 3 Times	@greenhorn, Ofcoure i said its like FIAT (pun intended).. so you need to give it to Ubuntu and put up with its few gripe ;-). They are surely no TATA. I had a V2 Lxi petrol in my home and i would say its at best Windows 3.x. Maybe the current V2's are Windows 98 and probably Vista/Manza the initial XP release... If you know the gripes of each of these OS (their history) you would know what i mean. With Vista (and better with manza) they have a good opportunity to deliver SP2. But swift DDiS any day is OS-X. You love it and live with some of the in-bred issues, it comes with.
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 17:57	#435
ACM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,745 Thanked: 4,361 Times View My Garage	At the end of almost 30 pages of poll responses, what do we conclude. Actually between the Swift and the Vista - nothing, it is too close to actually give it a call, Performance has a parameter and so should in theory be quantifiable, but what does one do about comfort, looks, features and quality. The weightage in our mind of all these is different based on how we are mentally wired. So the same cars with have us conclude differently. Of course past experience with a brand is also a parameter in this.
	() Thanks