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Old 4th November 2021, 10:02   #7771
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

I find it funny that people get all riled up about the governments on social media but finally when it is time to vote, not many people turn up to vote.

I have seen a lot of my colleagues and friends having heated debates about the way the country should/could be run. On the day of voting, they club it with vacation and will be lounging somewhere else.
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:03   #7772
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

A few losses in the by-polls and we are immediately seeing relief from the looting. The message to the voters is very clear!
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:06   #7773
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
The country in question is the Philippines, not Singapore.


There is nothing political or emotional in my statement. " bunch of absolute nincompoops"
Singapore or Philippines or Malaysia - there's no comparison between a country so vast and diverse like India. There's no point even in comparing.

There are so many educated and level headed people in India, yet only a few make it to the parliament.

Politicians know their vote bank and how to trigger them with outlandish statements. Surprisingly they retain them too.

In a country like India expecting everyone to be of one's own intellectual capability and thought process ( a cultivated one due to one surroundings and upbringing) seems absurd.

It takes a quite broad view and understanding why things are happening the way they are.

I don't think the elected parliamentarians alone are ruling - an entire executive cadre of quite a competitive and intellectual civil servants are the major decision makers, ministers come and go, but the bureaucracy runs this machinery and if a common folk can know the implication of fuel price rise, they certainly know it too well.

So the question is why.

Generally I go through the thread to see the the out the box solutions the great Indian jugaad gives, some valuable insights, some ideas and perspectives that's entirely different from general stream of frustration ( I'm no exception either and affected too).
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:10   #7774
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Sadly this thread is a rant where any one sharing data that does not agree with the popular {and I dare say justified} anger is booed and shooed. In response to the question below members here may in the large part not be old enough to remember we had marginal income tax rate of up to 97% in the 1960s & 1970s - everyone on this forum with two or more cars would have been in that bracket. IIRC earning over Rs 10,000 a month attracted that rate that's like Rs 300,000* a month today - enjoy. And all CEOs of any company had their monthly pay capped, by law, at Rs 7000 a month {~Rs 210,000* today}. Excise duty and customs were variously 1.5X to 3X higher than today respectively. We have every right to be upset at the current fuel price hikes by a Govt that has not earned itself any plaudits in managing the economy. But let's not assume that India lived in a golden era before.
What is the point in comparing with 1960 & 1970. It's not as if the current govt changed that? Majority of those were changed in 1991 & from that time on. If anything, the current govt has reversed some of the reforms of 1991, like hiking import duty heavily on a lot of stuff in the last 7.5 years. They have increased excise duty. They haven't raised income tax slabs significantly. In 2004, the tax free income tax slab was 50,000 (i.e. first 50,000 Rs of your income was tax free) UPA Govt raised it from 50,000 to 1,10,000 & then to 1,60,000 & then to 1,80,00 & the finally to 2,00,00 Lakhs - i.e. the tax free income slab was 4xed in 10 years. In the last 7.5 years, it has increased from 2 Lakhs to 2.5 Lakhs - i.e. 0.25x. Economically, this is one of the most protectionist, left wing governments we have had post 1991.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adityadeva View Post
Generally I go through the thread to see the the out the box solutions the great Indian jugaad gives, some valuable insights, some ideas and perspectives that's entirely different from general stream of frustration ( I'm no exception either and affected too).
We don't need any out of the box or jugaad solutions. We just need a half way sensible Govt.

Last edited by carboy : 4th November 2021 at 10:19.
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:16   #7775
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Akshay6988 View Post
Now they going to use this till 2024 elections and people being gullible will celebrate as if they're doing some favours ! Petrol is still above 100₹/litre !!
People need to ask questions why the heck excise duty is increased so much
Do you like infrastructure? Roads? Ports? Electricity?

Do you like the mnrega dole to the poorest? Do you like farm subsidies?

Well, excise duty is revenue.

Revenue is needed for all this and more.

Or we can have Rs. 50/l petrol for the literal 2% that own cars and possibly the 15% that own a 2-wheeler (approximately) and everything else can take a long walk off a short pier.

Last edited by Aditya : 4th November 2021 at 22:54. Reason: Typos
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:21   #7776
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Stribog View Post
Do you like infrastructure? Roads? Ports? Electricity?

Do you like the mnrega dole to the poorest? Do you like farm subsidies?

Well, excise duty is revenue.

Revenue is needed for all this and more.
We were getting infrastructures and roads and ports even when fuel was taxed sensibly.
If the excise duty on fuel is paying for these "infrastructures" please explain why you, me and everyone else is forced to pay tolls (that fee is also doubled) ? Why we have to pay "road tax" on vehicle purchase ?

Last edited by Aditya : 5th November 2021 at 18:48. Reason: Please do not get personal
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:25   #7777
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Naetik30 View Post
Sir, I agree with most of your comment here. But have a problem with your statement above.

Why is it not OK to criticize a policy or performance of the current dispensation without having to compare against the previous govts. Is it never OK to be objective and call a spade a spade?

When do we stop looking back? The current opposition is decimated. And let's all agree that history has already judged their performance. And pretty much directly led to creation of the current behemoth.

But the current one is the problem. It affects everyone's present.

The post that Mr Narayans was responding to explicitly spoke about a glorious past when we didnt tax heavily which was entirely false.

It was this the response by Mr Narayans was correcting.

Why is it okay with you to bring up a mythical Nehruvian era of low taxes (past) but correcting it becomes "why do we live in the past"


Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadTrippin View Post
A few losses in the by-polls and we are immediately seeing relief from the looting. The message to the voters is very clear!

The BJP won all seats in Assam, performed very well in Bihar, won above all expectations in Telengana.

Bengal was a wash (but this was expected) and poorly performed in Himachal and Rajasthan.

I fail to see how is this a "few losses" if anything except Rajasthan it went per expectations
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:30   #7778
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Akshay6988 View Post
We were getting infrastructures and roads and ports even when fuel was taxed sensibly.
If the excise duty on fuel is paying for these "infrastructures" please explain why you, me and everyone else is forced to pay tolls (that fee is also doubled) ? Why we have to pay "road tax" on vehicle purchase ? Do enlighten me from your whatsapp forwards
You must love the glorious 1 lane "expressway" networks of the past, the crippling power cuts, the 19% with access to piped water, 30% with access to a toilet, the anaemic dole schemes and everything else if you think India had or even now has anything resembling world class infra.

The record capex from 2016 must be a figment of my imagination no?

Last edited by Aditya : 4th November 2021 at 21:43. Reason: Personal attack
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:36   #7779
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
What is the point in comparing with 1960 & 1970. It's not as if the current govt changed that? Majority of those were changed in 1991 & from that time on.
Sir before you react so strongly with your views please read my post and the question asked in the post I was trying to answer. Your post reinforces what I wrote that this thread has degenerated into an anger rant with no place for even some one agreeing with you expressing his point without a tirade. Peace. Read, understand digest and then react.
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:36   #7780
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Some good news for Deepavali. We should enjoy it as long as it is there. This is definitely a good move for time being.

Last edited by chethan.ram : 4th November 2021 at 10:38.
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:48   #7781
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by adityadeva View Post
Singapore or Philippines or Malaysia - there's no comparison between a country so vast and diverse like India. There's no point even in comparing.
This is where PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) comes in handy. It is a macroeconomic tool used to compare the currencies of different countries based on the cost of a basket of goods commonly used in the respective countries. It's not perfect, but is what economists generally use to compare the economy and standard of living between countries. There is a reason why currencies tend to strengthen or weaken over time against the US Dollar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adityadeva View Post
In a country like India expecting everyone to be of one's own intellectual capability and thought process ( a cultivated one due to one surroundings and upbringing) seems absurd.
Forget intellect, can we have something rational thinking from our leaders? The first step to fixing a problem is to acknowledge that there is one. Coming up with BS when questioned on what is happening will get us nowhere.
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:59   #7782
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Now we get an answer why opposition did not ride on bullock carts or protest strongly against fuel prices.

Only BJP ruled states have cut on VAT and passed on added respite to customers. No deduction of VAT by non BJP ruled states means they want to impose high VAT, get the funds and happily criticize the centre for high prices with a token protest.
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Old 4th November 2021, 11:07   #7783
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Stribog View Post
Do you like infrastructure? Roads? Ports? Electricity?
Do you like the mnrega dole to the poorest?
Do you like farm subsidies?

Well, excise duty is revenue.

Revenue is needed for all this and more.
Being an honest tax payer(my claim ) I love all of the above. These are activities, I believe, a Govt. should be involved in and be responsible for.

What I hate is double, triple, multiple taxation to be borne by individuals and the knowledge that large corporates got a 1.5Lakh Crore gift in reduced taxation.

Let us take road infrastructure -
  • road tax on buying a vehicle
  • toll fee on nearly all highways
  • Additional Excise Duty (Road and infrastructure Cess) for any fuel purchase
  • Road transport cess(yes, that is a thing in Bengaluru - not sure if they rolled it out yet) for the privilege of having a property in Bengaluru.
I may be missing some additional taxation via cess here.
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Old 4th November 2021, 11:08   #7784
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by steadfast View Post
Now we get an answer why opposition did not ride on bullock carts or protest strongly against fuel prices.

Only BJP ruled states have cut on VAT and passed on added respite to customers. No deduction of VAT by non BJP ruled states means they want to impose high VAT, get the funds and happily criticize the centre for high prices with a token protest.
I am unable to find actual rates of places where state has added to the reduction done by center. All online websites only showing reduction between 11.50-12.50 overall. Can anyone from there confirm?
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Old 4th November 2021, 11:23   #7785
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Congrats to Modi and BJP govt in reducing the 'oil prices'.
Its a shame that the govt fools the common people by these eyewash politics. While it should be appreciated that the taxes have been reduced, what common people should notice is that it shouldn't have been this high in the first place.
Increased taxes by Rs. 33 and then decrease it by Rs. 5. Net profit is still RS.28.
There is no argument in saying there is revenue loss by decreasing the tax because there shouldn't been an increase in the first place.
This is all politically motivated and we have to wait and watch what the next strategy is going to be.
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