[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

An interesting article in today’s Times of India.

Taxes or absolute price is one part of the equation. Median salaries and purchasing power is the other side of the equation. A fair comparison should look at those metrics too.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

An interesting article in today’s Times of India.

Clever way to manipulate the actual numbers, by avoiding the VAT.

In India, Petrol price tax percentage is around 57%, and Diesel is 50% (Source: https://prsindia.org/theprsblog/petr...-diesel-prices)

Now consider the case for France. As per https://taxfoundation.org/gas-taxes-in-europe/, France excise tax is 0.68Euros per Litre, and has 20% VAT. Current price of Petrol is 1.73 Euros per Litre. Tax percentage is nearly 59%.

Also, India's 10% people owns 65% of the wealth - highly skewed compared to European countries. So, what are we comparing here to those countries? If someone thinks that India is now on par with European countries, it is only in dialogues, and not on actuals.

[AnandB]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

An interesting article in today’s Times of India.

The tax % to retail price also tell us we are sourcing at highest cost among them.



Like Dry Ice said above what a person earns matters more imo. Also if we are comparing to developed countries who tax quite high, are we there yet? I don't mind paying such high tax if it was being utilized correctly and benefited the public as it should.

[splitsecond]

Offtopic

What happens to oil prices once EV adoption picks up? Lets say after 5 to 10 years electric vehicles overtakes IC engines what happens to petrol/diesel prices ? Will there be a period in future were fuel prices goes very low because of low demand that we can enjoy cheap fuel prices before complete ev transition? Will oil producing countries reduce crude prices to slow down ev transition? I like to hear bhpian's opinion on this.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by splitsecond

What happens to oil prices once EV adoption picks up?

Far too much politics and far too many wars have been played over oil so this question won't have an easy answer.

But price is a function of supply and demand. And here what's happened in the recent past.

Saudi Arabia blocked calls from poorer members of the OPEC oil exporter group for production cuts to arrest a slide in global prices, sending benchmark crude plunging to a fresh four-year low.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-o...0JA0O320141127

Saudi Arabia cut oil prices for sales to Asia next month by more than twice the expected amount in a sign the world’s largest crude exporter wants to entice buyers to take more of its barrels. State producer Saudi Aramco is rolling back pricing on all of its grades to its biggest market in Asia.

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...0500746_1.html

Saudi Arabia said it would unilaterally cut 1 million barrels a day of crude production starting next month, a surprise move signaling the kingdom’s worry that a resurgent coronavirus is threatening global economic recovery.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-a...an-11609857544

This is when the US hasn't even disclosed its trump card: its vast shale oil reserves.

It is no wonder that the Middle Eastern countries are trying so desperately to diversify their economy away from oil: tourism is coming up in a big way, so are other white collar industries. Just look at entire new towns that Saudi Arabia is building: NEOM is one example.

https://www.neom.com/en-us

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by splitsecond

Offtopic

What happens to oil prices once EV adoption picks up?

You seem to be under the impression that "oil producing countries" are somehow not part of the elite that rules the world.

No. That's really naive. Our rulers will make sure you pay more. How? Just stop sales of fuel and then make them available for "special" uses, say as "antique fuel". I could think of a 100 ways to sell anything for any ridiculous price if I controlled it's supply, and make no mistake, the elites controls everything now.

[jalex77]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Also, India's 10% people owns 65% of the wealth - highly skewed compared to European countries. So, what are we comparing here to those countries? If someone thinks that India is now on par with European countries, it is only in dialogues, and not on actuals.

According to this article, India’s richest 10% control more than 74% of the national wealth.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/...546648078.html

And I think that number has gone up further due to the corporate tax cuts.

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...2001399_1.html

.

[AZT]

Just filled up in Mumbai today. Petrol is 120.51

I thought 110 or 115 would be a red line but phew.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by AZT

Just filled up in Mumbai today. Petrol is 120.51

I thought 110 or 115 would be a red line but phew.

There's no red line when it comes to fuel prices. If the crude prices rise, which they may very well, we could see 200 rupees per litre fairly soon. Profits will be made and the government will get its cut, no matter what.

[NPV]

Tanked up the Wagon R today and the price is Rs.111.07 in Bangalore, the highest I've ever paid for petrol (A close second was about Rs.105 back in September 2021)!

[condor]

Fuel prices will continue to rise, even if the refinery/govt sells at zero profit. Period.

Originally Posted by NPV

Tanked up the Wagon R today and the price is Rs.111.07 in Bangalore, the highest I've ever paid for petrol (A close second was about Rs.105 back in September 2021)!

You dont drive around much, isnt it

[carboy]

Originally Posted by karanddd

Profits will be made and the government will get its cut, no matter what.

Originally Posted by condor

Fuel prices will continue to rise, even if the refinery/govt sells at zero profit.

If Union Govt rolls back Union Govt taxes back to 2014 levels, Fuel prices will be lesser by around 30 Rs.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by carboy

If Union Govt rolls back Union Govt taxes back to 2014 levels, Fuel prices will be lesser by around 30 Rs.

True. Though will that be akin to making one of the same mistakes that Sri Lanka made? I don't know (SL reduced fuel taxes, one of their missteps under their circumstances, per several reports).

What is also true and doable is that if Maharashtra govt reduces VAT just like Uttar Pradesh, Gujarat, Karnataka, etc did, then petrol prices in Maharashtra will come down by Rs 12-15 per liter.

Unlike state govts, central govt has set very high expenditure targets (semiconductor mission, infra spend, Covid-related, etc)

[lapis_lazuli]

Originally Posted by vharihar

Unlike state govts, central govt has set very high expenditure targets (semiconductor mission, infra spend, Covid-related, etc)

These are dangling carrots, some, way past its "strategy" date IMHO. One of it (the last carrot) is almost past its shelf life, to be used in any meaningful argument, hence after!

The semiconductor mission : it is a Rs 76000 crore "plan" (read fresh carrot) spread over 6 years and YET to see a start date. I belong to the core semiconductor industry. Most of the 76K Cr is notional spend. Not really tangible spends out of guvs fat pockets. Yes, some subsidies here and there, but mostly convoluted and restrictive procedures, without direct consultations from the real industry pundits. (I still remember Make in India, Startup India, FAME, ESDM; new year, new plans!)

Infra spend : Significant visible implementation has happened. However, I live along one of the most hyped NHs and it is a living example of how a NH should not be built. Heard of flooded NH/flyovers, please? In the race to tick off the list, there are grave dilutions. Anyway, the union budget allocates that, has been allocating that spend anyway, since the last several decades. That is not an excuse to LIE, announcing "enhanced excise is a buffer, to be decreased when prices shoot up" (whenever oil prices went down)! and yes, don't forget the relentless insult to intelligence: "fuel prices are deregulated". Elections, anyone?

Covid : Yeah, right! It is all about proving how the world followed wrong methodology....in everything that is against the narrative. Suffering : False, Oxygen : False, Deaths : False, Guv paid for all vaccines : FALSE!

But yes, the center could release the GST due to states. That too, is doable for sure!

[FrozeninTime]

Fuel prices do hurt and persistent rise will lead to more inflation but we all forget that when you want high GDP growth, cheap loans, infrastructure, welfare schemes somewhere money has to come from and easiest way is from fuel taxes.

The government debt has increased tremendously in the last 8 years, some say 90% of GDP which may or may not be right and if government keeps subsidizing fuel it will not be good for economy.

P.S
Middle class or shall I say salaried class enjoyed since Independence at the expense of poor and corporates through subsidized fuel, food, education and are now unable to adjust to reality of economics.