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Old 2nd November 2021, 09:44   #7651
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog View Post
Also, this will probably result in fast-tracking the move towards electric and hydrogen fuel vehicles, as in happening in Europe.

Cheerio!
My belief is it won't make sense if it's EV or Fuel, the states, if they want, will increase the tariff of electricity as well. I believe the belt around Maharasthra has the highest electricity charges.

With an increasing number of people living in apartments, they will not be able to substitute the electricity charges than the people who live in individual houses, who to an extent can make use of solar panel, though that savings can be minuscule.

On a different note, it is good for the environment except for those states who depend on coal for electricity generation.

But again not everyone can afford EVs be it two-wheelers or four-wheelers.

Last edited by Kannan : 2nd November 2021 at 10:09.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 10:09   #7652
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

I changed my 7 year old Diesel (Chevy Sail UVA Hatch) to a CNG Spresso.

Sail Diesel
18Kmpl
105Rs per Ltr
5.85Rs Per Km Fuel Cost
Daily 130 Kms - 760.50 Rs
Monthly 25 days - 19,012.50 Rs

Spresso CNG
28Kmpl in CNG
53Rs per Ltr
1.90Rs Per Km Fuel Cost
Daily 130Kms - 247Rs
Monthly 25 days - 6175Rs


Savings

12,837.50

Exchanged old Sail against down payment, new car loan EMI is 6500Rs. So even after paying EMI I have some spare money left.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 10:20   #7653
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by livetodrive View Post
As someone from union Government said...are we paying for free vaccines?
Quote:
Originally Posted by careind View Post
On the other hand there is a huge additional cost of vaccinating the entire population. Where is the additional money coming from? Cannibalizing on existing schemes to an extent and cash cows.
I think currently the only available cash cow to milk is Fuel/Excise tax, which has been the way since a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet7 View Post
Add to that the vaccine burden. States could have shouldered at least half of these.
It is best to look at data. [Agreed, it is from TOI, but would be interesting to know if there is a problem with the math.]
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/87446809.cms
Summary:

Fuel taxes:
Govt gets 4.5Lakh Cr (up from 70+K Cr in 2014).
States get 2.2L.

Vaccine expenditure, till now
Govt ~20K Cr.
Private sector + individuals ~5K Cr.

On top of this the Govt. is planning to take $2 Billion loan for vaccines https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/87310509.cms


I hope the remainder of the 93% of the collected tax is put to good use, rather than giving tax breaks to corporates (from 30% to 22%).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravind_M92 View Post
It's as if we had to work our a***s off and also pay for the vaccine programs indirectly. And to add more frustration, we were promised incentives and God knows where those incentives are. And the best part, on paper all the incentives have been sanctioned long back!
+1 to that sentiment.
It is as if, it is the individual responsibility (more so if they are salaried) responsibility to bail out the country.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 3rd November 2021 at 17:09. Reason: edited
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Old 2nd November 2021, 10:43   #7654
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewing View Post

Fuel taxes:
Govt gets 4.5Lakh Cr (up from 70+K Cr in 2014).
States get 2.2L.

Vaccine expenditure, till now
Govt ~20K Cr.
Private sector + individuals ~5K Cr.
Don't forget PMCares Fund. It collected some 10,000 crores before they stopped publishing data.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 11:13   #7655
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjivvohra View Post
Agree that infrastructure is improving and I've seen videos on YouTube where people have done 1000+ km runs on their EVs.
Currently the only viable EV is the Nexon. Being a Tata product, personally I'm not convinced of its longevity. That's my personal belief.
Would I trust the roadside EV stations, even if I could find one ( did a quick Google search and , frankly, couldn't find contiguous EV charging statios spread 200km apart). They are likely to be in a blackout!
Stopping every 250km for an hour to charge your vehicle is something that's not very practical, given the current infrastructure. If there's no electricity, good luck on continuing your trip.
The NHAI has some great plans to create EV charging stations every 40-60km, but the plan is for 2023 and beyond. So long drives are out on EV for me till then.
Would I shell out 15 lakh rupees for an EV for local running? I doubt it.
Why is the Nexon the only "viable" EV? We also have the MG ZS at 20 lakhs which is a far superior EV with higher range, more safety with side and curtain airbags, stability control, cruise control etc as well as a much bigger and higher segment vehicle. Show me any major highway where you don't have a charging station for more than 250 kms as you have stated. You don't search on Google. You need to download specific apps like Plugshare, Tata Power, Zeon, Statiq and so on. I don't see any issue with stopping to charge every 250 kms. Do you drive without any breaks for tea, lunch or to stretch your legs? For me a break of 30 minutes after a few hours is welcome regardless of whether I have an EV or not. Finally, regarding power failure, most of the chargers have genertor backup as they are located at large restaurants and rest areas. Hence most of your fears are addressed. One only goes out of town a few times a year. So spending an extra hour once every 6 months is a small price to pay for daily savings. In just past two months I have driven around 5k kms including several long trips. I haven't had any issues with charging as there are various redundant options available. It takes just 20 to 30 minutes to top up and I can't even finish my lunch by then. I have saved over 45k in just the past two months compared to a petrol vehicle. Taking a couple of breaks on a 300 to 400km trip is a small price to pay. In addition, many hotels and malls provide you with complimentary charging whereas I haven't seen anyone giving free fuel!

Last edited by Lobogris : 2nd November 2021 at 11:15.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 11:33   #7656
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

The public expenditure on providing free ration for the 'poor' during the pandemic alone is around 2.8 lakh crores as per reports. Adding up other subsidies, the total figure goes up close to 6 lakh crores.
Quote:
Notably, about 948 lakh tonnes of foodgrains was allocated last year, which is about 50 per cent more than a normal year to ensure food security during Covid-19. About ₹2.84 lakh crore food subsidy incurred during 2020-21.
Report

Quote:
According to the data, food subsidy rose sharply to Rs 4,22,618.14 crore in the RE of 2020-21.
The government's subsidies on food, fertilisers, LPG and kerosene are pegged at Rs 5.96 lakh crore in the current fiscal, over 2.5-fold jump from the initial budget estimates as the Centre distributed additional foodgrains free of cost to help poor mitigate the impact of COVID-19 pandemic
Report

Are these factors(among others) causing the fuel prices to go north in an exorbitant manner? Will the fuel prices drop once the deficit gets compensated? Only time will tell.

Last edited by Emvi : 2nd November 2021 at 11:47. Reason: Better wording
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Old 2nd November 2021, 12:09   #7657
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Why are we not talking about the lowered Corporate Tax from 30% to 22%? Fuel prices are being raised to offset that loss.
PS: The fuel prices were de-regulated in favour of market linked pricing. What a joke!!
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Old 2nd November 2021, 12:27   #7658
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

In Bangalore Shell Regular Petrol at Rs/- 119.4 I used to joke earlier about Petrol touching Rs/- 120 looks like the joke is on me now.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 13:35   #7659
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead123 View Post
Here in the land of opportunities (AKA USA), the prices I am paying is lesser than what I paid 15 years ago (yes 15 years ago). This is how the input costs are controlled by not slapping a tax on people and goods who essentially have to move.
You cannot compare an economically established country like the USA to India which has got independence from congress (Congress mukt Bharath) hardly 8 years back. 300 years from now, Indians will also be saying something similar.
Taxes are the backbone of economic development. We should pay more Taxes so that the corporate houses can lead us to economic success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emvi View Post
The public expenditure on providing free ration for the 'poor' during the pandemic alone is around 2.8 lakh crores as per reports. Adding up other subsidies, the total figure goes up close to 6 lakh crores.
You are quoting the expenditure in Rupees. Do you have any figures in tonnes provided. Maybe the rising expenditure is due more to inflation and paying more rather than more subsidies given.

It's like 1000 laptops procured at 8k each, total expenditure of 80L, but shown expenditure is 5 cr. Or like recently when Hotel bills was 2-3L per night per room in Bengaluru.

The total corpus of food subsidies may have remained the same as previous years with only the method of calculation being changed. So can you check if the cost of the food subsidies are high because of increased benevolence or due to inflation and high transport costs due to high fuel prices?
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Old 2nd November 2021, 14:01   #7660
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emvi View Post
Are these factors(among others) causing the fuel prices to go north in an exorbitant manner?
Union Govt tax on Fuel had already been increased starting from 2014 on.
In 2014, the total Union Tax on Petrol was Rs. 9 per litre. Pre-pandemic it had already been raised to Rs. 20 per litre. So they had already more than doubled it before the pandemic.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 14:14   #7661
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Wow, @₹ 115.47 in Mumbai
We are getting whipped now, and no communication about relief. If crude touches 100, we would keep going, I assume.

I remember when the crude prices dropped, the benefits were offset by increasing taxes, Some whatsapp educated friends/colleagues suggested that it is to collect tax now and provide relief when crude prices skyrocket, Crude is going up, I don't see any relief being provided.
Those friends have conveniently forgotten that it was mentioned by them as a fact and if reminded it becomes a personal fight, I have stopped going that route.

Let me summarize the probable reasons that have been provided for the fuel prices, Here, as well as by my family & friends -

1. Taxing when crude is low so we can get relief when crude goes high
2. Previous Govt. oil bond payments are causing a huge dent
3. Economy dying due to Covid, we have to pay to resurrect the economy
4. Extraordinary infrastructure being built across the country requires funds
5. You shouldn't be complaining, you are earning well.
6. What is the opposition doing? (I like this, this is the best one)
7. Fighting China, so we need the funds.
8. Fossil fuels should be hiked super high, They cause pollution.
9. Since lot of people don't pay IT, Indirect taxes have to be hiked, no option.
10. Fuel prices double every decade, so inevitable
11. Dollar to Rupee rate has doubled, so expected.
12. States are the real culprit, they should cut taxes
13. High fuel prices discourage people to travel during Covid.

I am sure I have missed a few, Some have value, some are of course plain silly.

In my opinion -
It is gross mismanagement, We have built statues worth thousands of crores, we are building a new parliament, in spite of Covid impact on economy.
I hope they correct things, and fast.

But more than the politicians/babus I hold the media responsible, Most media houses have been taken over by corporates and these media houses tow a certain line. We all know the corporates.

There have been a lot of protest across the country against fuel price increase (and a lot of other issues), The media rarely covers them, Rarely allows any pressure to be built.

Even today, when media should be asking the petroleum minister about the plan of action to curb fuel prices, asking the FM about the effects it would have on inflation of consumable prices and hence on the citizens' lives, they are busy with a star kid involved in a drug bust. It is, I daresay, to distract.

There is a dialogue in the movie Gladiator -

Gracchus : I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar.

The media/journalists & their owners are doing a disservice to the country.

- Slick
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Old 2nd November 2021, 14:39   #7662
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjivvohra View Post
It's an Endevour 3.2 44.
My point is that you shouldn't have to have 2 cars - one for local and one for long distance+ off road experience.
The Endevour was meeting my requirement quite well till the rapid fuel price hike.
I acquired a 3.0 4X4 AT Endeavour earlier this year, It barely gives 7kmpl.
Thank god for more fuel efficient cars I have, else I would have filed for bankruptcy already!!!!.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 14:43   #7663
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Wow, I never thought I would find a political thread on Team-BHP. I guess it is the last bastion to fall.

While this thread has a lot of good points explaining the failings of our government, what are we going to do about it? Car owners are a tiny part of the voting population so I don't think convincing people to vote a government out on this forum is useful other than to vent frustration. I honestly do not believe the next government will lower the cost of fossil fuel by a big amount because they will want to enjoy the same taxes collected as the previous government. Look at the history, which incoming government has reduced taxes by a large amount?

The price difference between an EV and a comparable IC car is not that high, especially in the case of the MG ZS or the Nexon EV. Most of us will charge our cars at home and drive less than 200 KM a day and not have to regularly depend on highway chargers. Traditionally state governments do not increase the cost of electricity by too much because pretty much every voter is affected, and so it is a good bet that electricity costs will not rise like fossil fuels.

If you can afford it, buy an EV and charge it at home. This can be a long term solution to our woes. It won't work for everyone but for some at least it is an answer.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 16:25   #7664
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by A M View Post
Why are we not talking about the lowered Corporate Tax from 30% to 22%? Fuel prices are being raised to offset that loss.
PS: The fuel prices were de-regulated in favour of market linked pricing. What a joke!!
They gave up almost 1.5L Cr in 2019 value and this benefited only large companies (>400Cr). We can only hope that due to this, some manufacturing jobs eventually get created.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 17:51   #7665
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Not only are the fuel prices pinching, haven't the toll rates silently increased beyond any comprehensible logic?
Gone are the days where we would shell out Rs.35 to Rs.75 at toll booths. With advent of fast tag, we don't realise when the prices go up. On my recent drive from Nagpur to Delhi, I realised how significantly the rates have gone up. Most of the tolls now charge >100Rs, with quite a few of them charging Rs.140!
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