[Ym-enjn]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

They should've launched the facelifted Civic, I do agree. However, your statements are contradictory. On one hand you say that they should launch the new Civic, but then you say that if they do that, the old model should be branded a flop, which it clearly isn't as it wiped the floor with everything else in the segment until Toyota & Co. finally caught up recently.

They have stopped the CR-V to make way for a new one. Hybrid is back to being sold as a direct purchase.

See people tend to get bored fast with bling things and fashion products. Everyone knows if you put a fancy ambiance in your house you'll get bored pretty fast. But thats a different subject the main point is competitiveness and that Honda just don't want their products to be.

Why on earth CRV like a CRV need a change within 2 years? What happens to current customers.. totally wrong policy.. (I would compare with Mitsubishi – first launch the product expensive and then look around for tactics to correct the situation.)

And Honda should thank its stars that Toyota was sleeping for past so many years in India.

Facelift and generation upgrade is a different thing but if they again bring in a new car which has no relevance with present Civic or CRV and then name them same, (like they always do) then I will certainly call these two models a flop.

Originally Posted by akj53

Civic was a very good car when it was introduced and thats why it nearly decimated Corolla. If I had to buy to a car 3 years ago, I would have definitely bought Civic and not Corolla.

Normally a car model has a life of 6-8 years with a full upgraded midlife version being introduced after 3-4 years.

When Civic was launched Corolla was in its 6th year in India and then Toyota went dorment. What better luck for Civic. That is a complete life cycle. Till present times almost 10 years from its launch Corolla had fantastic resale value.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

does the altis come with mudflaps as standard? good. well, the innova does not & the older corolla also dint have mudflaps.

the top-end altis which you are talking about costs 15.37 lakhs on road in mumbai, for the automatic. a 4 speed automatic... for 1.5 lakhs more, i can get the jetta diesel with a much better DSG transmission. the jetta petrol costs 14.5 lakhs! the honda civic auto with paddle shifts & 5 speeder costs 15.45 lakhs on road in mumbai. the price difference between honda & toyota is not huge.

hence, i feel both toyota & honda cars are overpriced.

All variants of the Altis apart from the base E variant come with body coloured mudflaps. Not dealer fitted but integrated ones. The old corolla also was the same.

The Jetta does not cost 1.5L more than the Altis. You are highly mistaken. The onroad price of the Jetta DSG is 20.57L. If you do the math that comes to 5L more for the diesel DSG with no xenons, no electric seats and many more features missing compared to the Toyota.

This thread is about the civic and the Altis so the innova has no relevance here.

Both the Civic and Altis are good cars priced competitively and I think very good VFM. I like the honda engine and it's fun to drive character as well as the practicality of the Altis. Both cater to different market segments.

[musicmanaman]

Corolla for me, civic just goes bust with 3 people at the back and if they are heavy the it gets worst.

[laluks]

Originally Posted by vid6639

Both the Civic and Altis are good cars priced competitively and I think very good VFM. I like the honda engine and it's fun to drive character as well as the practicality of the Altis. Both cater to different market segments.

I completely agree to this view, which is a fact.
Many other views here seems to be emotional.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

Facelift and generation upgrade is a different thing but if they again bring in a new car which has no relevance with present Civic or CRV and then name them same, (like they always do) then I will certainly call these two models a flop.

Hmm, okay. So if a car basically sold a billion units and then the company decided to change it from a hatchback to a sedan, the outgoing car is a flop by your logic. Okay, I think I get what you're on about. I'm fairly certain the first generation Accord is a flop. The entire JDM history of the Civic until the 7th generation is a flop too, since the 8th is the first sedan to carry the name in the market.

(like they always do)

I assume you think the NHC is a flop too?

Oh man, this is brightening up my afternoon quite well.

[Ym-enjn]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

Hmm, okay. So if a car basically sold a billion units and then the company decided to change it from a hatchback to a sedan, the outgoing car is a flop by your logic. Okay, I think I get what you're on about. I'm fairly certain the first generation Accord is a flop. The entire JDM history of the Civic until the 7th generation is a flop too, since the 8th is the first sedan to carry the name in the market.



I assume you think the NHC is a flop too?

Oh man, this is brightening up my afternoon quite well.

lol.. No pal, its the time frame 3 years and 2 years.. for Civic and CRV.

but as you ask- Old Accord had a great life and didn't needed a bigger and different avtar. It was at just the right price. It needed a new face, more competitive features and technical advancement if available. But no again. As soon as Honda sees competition in a segment it moves it products to a segment( price) which is empty and then avoid all direct comparison. That is exactly what they did with ANHC too. I have said enough as I am not a customer of Honda and do not want to be in future and as they are not going to pay me for the gyan, better I stick to Corolla and Civic war and leave Honda as they are.

[sidwadia]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

the top-end altis which you are talking about costs 15.37 lakhs on road in mumbai, for the automatic. a 4 speed automatic... for 1.5 lakhs more, i can get the jetta diesel with a much better DSG transmission. the jetta petrol costs 14.5 lakhs! the honda civic auto with paddle shifts & 5 speeder costs 15.45 lakhs on road in mumbai.

Guys,
Excuse me for my ignorance, but cant seem to refrain from asking this stupid question - " Whats the big deal between a 4 Vs 5 speed gear box".

I own an altis AT and have driven the civic as well. the only difference I could make out was the longer gear ratios of the Altis .
Pick up, gear shift smoothness, response,driveability etc etc were the same. Does the 5 speed AT give better mileage. I am not sure.

Is the 5 speed AT in the civic resposible for acceleration > 160kmph? nope, its the engine supported by the AT.

So my question : If , I as a driver have not really been able to figure out the drastic/noticeable difference, would it make a difference to the major chunk of the current/potential owners of both these cars?

So whats the real reason of a 5 speed AT getting a much higher order of recognition.

Cheers

[zoom_vroom]

Hi Guys
Well to be frank its all about one's personal liking between Civic and Altis.
Civic - Fun to drive
Altis - All round practicality.
Regrading high speed stability and handling, one doesn't often get a chance to zoom all the way to 160-170 kmph.
I test drove the Altis recently and took it to speeds more than 140 kmph.Found the car to be pretty decent at those speeds. However the low slung nature of the Civic offers it more stabilty at high speeds.
The problem with Civic is its ground clearnace and this problem shall accompany you, wherever you go.
However with Altis not being as revv happy as Civic, you would encounter this situation not almost everytime/everyday as Altis is more than equipped to satisfy the apetite of a normal fast driver.
It really pains if a 13 lac rupee car gets scraped and is unable to take many people in the backseat.
It seems unlike most car makers Honda didn't try to customise the Civic as per Indian needs by not raising its ground clearance.
India still doesn't have those sleek and smooth roads where Civic thrives, therefore ideally this should have been taken care of.

Honda has been quite cunning in pricing its product. They removed the S-MT model of Civic which was priced at 11.5 lacs Delhi, launched City at 8.5 lacs so that they could make space for the Jazz at such exorbitant prices.
No doubt Honda cars are great, and so are Toyota cars.With the launch of Altis ,Toyota has stepped the ante gainst Honda by offering a VFM, reliable product backed by excellent aftersales.
I would vote for the Altis, as it offers me the following things.
1. More fatures @ less price
2. Excellent and customer friendly after sales.
3. Higher ground clearance so i can take the car even on patchy roads with speedbreakers.
4. I don't need to fear that the rear tire would crash on the body in case i take more people on the backseat.
5. Better fuel efficiency.
6. Peace of mind that in case something goes wrong i wouldn't have to run pillar to post to get things sorted out.
In my opinion all these things are too little price to pay for the absence of
1. Sleek looks
2. Not so revv happy character.
3. 5AT if you consider

If Honda corrects the ground clearance issue,Civic would be a great buy with some extra features thrown in.

[GTO]

Interesting poll results. The Altis leads in the entry-level variants, but bring in the higher end and the ATs, the Civic comes out on top. But only just....still too close.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by vid6639

Both the Civic and Altis are good cars priced competitively and I think very good VFM. I like the honda engine and it's fun to drive character as well as the practicality of the Altis. Both cater to different market segments.

ok buddy! i am not intending any debate here. what you have written is your opinion, i respect that. but i still feel that both cars are overpriced.

Originally Posted by sidwadia

Guys,
Excuse me for my ignorance, but cant seem to refrain from asking this stupid question - " Whats the big deal between a 4 Vs 5 speed gear box".

a 5 speeder will feel more relazed at higher RPMs & FE can also be better.
most importantly, why should i live with a 4 speeder when the competition offers me a 5 speeder?!

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

ok buddy! i am not intending any debate here. what you have written is your opinion, i respect that. but i still feel that both cars are overpriced.

No no I am not debating at all. I just want to know what your comparing against? I mean what's the point of reference for saying they are overpriced. Is there some car in the D segment that is not overpriced which makes these 2 overpriced?

[raj_5004]

for the levels of comfort & the features these car offers, i feel it is overpriced. i am not so keen on paying a premium over a brand name.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

for the levels of comfort & the features these car offers, i feel it is overpriced. i am not so keen on paying a premium over a brand name.

That's alright but what I'm asking is different. Compared to which car are these cars charging a premium?? I'm sorry but I'm just not able to get which cars you are comparing against for these 2 to be overpriced.

[raj_5004]

in this segment, there is no car yet to which these cars can be compared. lets wait for the chevy cruze & if priced right, i hope it can be a worthy competitor to both the japs. anyways, at that price, i would prefer spending some 60,000 more & buy the sonata embera.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by cuttingcrew

Both Civic and Altis are overpriced in India. Can somebody explain why they are costly compared to US even though they are not CBU? Are certain parts imported as CBUs?

The Altis is assembled here with local and imported components. The Camry is a CBU from Japan.

The difference in the final price boils down to taxes. Do you know what these cars cost in Singapore? Why just compare to the US. The Altis MT costs around Rs 18L (in S'pore).

Cheers!