[adit1329]

I have never been a fan of Hyundai and never liked their cars, my bro-in-law is a big hyundai fan and i have never liked any of his cars (Santro, Sonata and the Elantra...)
they do not have looks and no performance either...and are overpriced..

[tsk1979]

A family friends OHC had to have clutch plates replace replaced after 30000kms.
So by your logic Honda city's have poor quality clutches?
As for smoking cars, I have seen smoking mercs too.
Have owned santro(1st edition - 1999 or so) still going strong at 90000kms or so.

[SLK]

true, no one can prove if Hyundai is not at par with any others in terms of quality... though I normally find santro's exhaust pipes rusting prematurely. (its hardly anything)...

[GTO]

No nonsense dude... have u ever seen a zen smoking from the exhaust or zen with an engine opened.... but i have seen santro's smoking on delhi roads even accents too.... but never seen a honda city do that even when it isnt kept well. My friend has one(OHC) has clocked around 150k kms... the only major repair till now has been the clutch overhaul n nothing else.

Well, a single example here and there is hardly representative of the 1,00,000+ cars that Hyundai sells on an annual basis. Isnt it better to consider a more comprehensive study rather than Mr. Patels next door opinion?

The JD Powers Initial Quality Study, which has one of the largest sample sizes in the world and calculates the number of problems, ranked the Hyundai Sonata as No.1. Among others, thats one up on the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry in a market where they sell the most (USA)

Hyundai still has to learn Honda efficiency and performance and toyota's refinement.

Yes. But Honda and Toyota are learning a lot of things from Hyundai too.

GTO

[extreme_torque]

The first diesel engine that Honda has made, the 2.2 Litre is getting rave reviews everywhere.
Look at Honda city's engine, the old one set the benchmark for performace and fuel efficiency and new one has even better fuel efficiency and almost the same performace as the Accent which has a claimed 94 BHP engine. Even the latest 1.3 engine in getz isnt a match for the all aluminium 1.3 maruti engine except may be in refinement, but the maruti engine has been here for eternity.
No hyundai car is a benchmark in any segment... but they do sell well coz they look good and feel good but the depth of engineering isnt there.
Situation has changed a bit by Emberra and Tuscon but it still isnt there.... but no doubting the fact that Hyundai is changing and changing real fast but you still cannot say that they are upto Japanese manufacturers. Afterall Toyota is set to become the world's largest manufacturer and Lexus the most prefferred luxury brand around the world.
Just dont go by american market sales and survey's, coz they buy anything which is huge, has a big engine and is cheap.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Lexus the most prefferred luxury brand around the world..

Now from where did you get that.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Just dont go by american market sales and survey's, coz they buy anything which is huge, has a big engine and is cheap.

Lexus sells well only in the US.

[hawkeye]

Originally Posted by adit1329

...and are overpriced..

I am sure a lot of people think otherwise. VFM and Hyundai go together.

The Accent, Santro, Sonata and now the Elantra are all priced very competitively.

I do respect Hyundai in India atleast.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Now from where did you get that.
Lexus sells well only in the US.

oops! My mistake.... Its set to become the most preffered luxury brand and considering how old the lexus brand is, the sales are already very good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/

Out of top ten cars in the topgear survey, 7 are by japanese manufacturers and out of these 7 cars, 5 are from Honda & Toyota.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by hawkeye

I am sure a lot of people think otherwise. VFM and Hyundai go together.

The Accent, Santro, Sonata and now the Elantra are all priced very competitively.

I do respect Hyundai in India atleast.

Santro and Accent are not good value..... they are priced on par with the competiton. And Accent especially is a half baked product compared to the competition. Though they do make you feel that u are getting more car for ur money in absolute terms, which isnt the case.
The first geniunely good product from Hyundai was the Accent CRDi and then the Elantra (save for looks, it would have sold very very well).
In india they are good and most importantly proactive unlike other manufacturers. But internationally they still have a lot of catching up to do.

[hawkeye]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Santro and Accent are not good value..... they are priced on par with the competiton.

Check out the pricelists and you will know that dude. The Accent GLE is an excellent VFM as is the Santro XG. However, I would agree that the Accent is a tad dated and the performance is not on par with its Japanese counterparts, but at its price you'll sure be tempted to get it.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

But internationally they still have a lot of catching up to do.

They are catching up though.

[devarshi84]

The market today asks for cars that hyundai and the japanese competitors make.

the usual period to change a car today is 3-4 years. This timeframe is good enough for a hyundai to deliver its customer the values he seeks from his car.
Even that is changing with hyundai competing for quality with the japanese.

The Europeans are still trying hard to see that their cars run for years long.

[GTO]

The first diesel engine that Honda has made, the 2.2 Litre is getting rave reviews everywhere.
Look at Honda city's engine, the old one set the benchmark for performace and fuel efficiency and new one has even better fuel efficiency and almost the same performace as the Accent which has a claimed 94 BHP engine.

No hyundai car is a benchmark in any segment... but they do sell well coz they look good and feel good but the depth of engineering isnt there.

Just dont go by american market sales and survey's, coz they buy anything which is huge, has a big engine and is cheap.

Please revert back to the original point of discussion. We are not talking about innovation or about benchmarking. The key word is RELIABILITY and my opinion is that Hyundai is as reliable as any Honda and Toyota around.

The American market is not only the biggest for cars, but also one of the most aware / well-informed. Irrespective, I would rather trust a professional study than an opinion made after seeing one or two "smoking" machines.

Santro and Accent are not good value..... they are priced on par with the competiton.

Just because they are priced on par does not make them good value? Hyundai India was one of the the first to show that Indians are value driven, and not cost driven. You may have your belief, but Hyundai India has established itself as a VFM provider - something that 1,00,000+ Indians a year attest to.

GTO

[extreme_torque]

Of those 100000+ , almost 90000 of them are Santro's.
The santro is selling bocz of some clever marketing and fuel efficiency post erlx, or lets say this, the buyers have no other option except santro, wagon r is too boxy, zen is outdated n isnt practical.
For me value for money was the Palio... it was a b+ segment car for small car money. The ride quality of the palio can still teach a lesson or two to cars almost twice as expensive. It was a benchmark in its segment but as is the case with FE here, ppl were not willing to sacrifice 2-3 kmpl for an overall much better car. The Fiat service wasnt as bad as it is made out to be and was not the major reason for the failure of palio.
Santro is well just an average car in its class but ASS is good no doubt. The thing with hyundai cars is that they do make u feel that u got more than what u paid for, which is often not the case. In india before buying a car nobody cares abt driving dynamics, fun to drive factor and safety... all we are worried abt is looks and fuel average. Thats why Old Sonata sold well confronted with the Old Accord, but the new Accord changed it all. The elantra, inspite of a being genuinely good car isnt selling bcoz it doesnt looks right.
Looks at the advertising campaign for the Hyundai Accent, its aimed on the typical indian psyche of "badi gaadi" commands respect.
All genuinely good hyundai cars arent selling well, Elantra due to competition from Optra and Octaivia, Tuscon bcoz of Honda CRV.... why bocz ppl have options?

[GTO]

Well, it aint a crime to give the market what it wants! A majority of Indian buyers could not care less about driving dynamics etc.

Lastly, I guess we are agreeable on the reliability part...which was the original point of this discussion?

GTO

[Beeman]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Of those 100000+ , almost 90000 of them are Santro's.
The santro is selling bocz of some clever marketing and fuel efficiency post erlx, or lets say this, the buyers have no other option except santro, wagon r is too boxy, zen is outdated n isnt practical.
For me value for money was the Palio... it was a b+ segment car for small car money. The ride quality of the palio can still teach a lesson or two to cars almost twice as expensive. It was a benchmark in its segment but as is the case with FE here, ppl were not willing to sacrifice 2-3 kmpl for an overall much better car. The Fiat service wasnt as bad as it is made out to be and was not the major reason for the failure of palio.
Santro is well just an average car in its class but ASS is good no doubt. The thing with hyundai cars is that they do make u feel that u got more than what u paid for, which is often not the case. In india before buying a car nobody cares abt driving dynamics, fun to drive factor and safety... all we are worried abt is looks and fuel average. Thats why Old Sonata sold well confronted with the Old Accord, but the new Accord changed it all. The elantra, inspite of a being genuinely good car isnt selling bcoz it doesnt looks right.
Looks at the advertising campaign for the Hyundai Accent, its aimed on the typical indian psyche of "badi gaadi" commands respect.
All genuinely good hyundai cars arent selling well, Elantra due to competition from Optra and Octaivia, Tuscon bcoz of Honda CRV.... why bocz ppl have options?

Well i dis-agree with most of the things you say in your post. Fiat servicing has been quite bad. I personally have experienced this and heard the same from a lot of people. The build qulity of the Palio is not very brilliant. ?I personally feel that it suffers from a very un inspiring interior. The ride qualities of the Hyundai's have been impoving much quicker than before.

I personally feel that Hyundiai has always been on a pedesstal lower than honda and the other japanese manufacturers. That is the reason why they always have to give that extra thing keep their prices slightly lowered to keep them selves in competition.

I remember being in the states in 1990 and hyundai was something people never spoke about. Now their cars feature in the most popular of magazines and they are constantly re-inventing themselves.

Yes, i agree they constantly piggy back themselves on their bigger japanese counterparts in terms of designs and other things, but that has been changing over the years and time will come when they might also be trend setters in their own rights.

There was a time when the likes of honda and toyota's used to use the same tactics and ideas as followed by their american counterparts. But then they changed and now we see where they are. I think you can expect the same out of hyundai.