The Grey Torquedo - My Optra Magnum - The Next Level!

optimist · 28th July 2011, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhanu@DJ

The design and interior's work for Aveo, U-VA and Optra are done @ the GMTC centre in Bangalore. The newer replacements would be shown at the Auto expo in Jan 2012. Will be mostly be replacing the existing models some time in the first quarter of 2012. The engines will be 1.4 and 1.6 liter engines that are under evaluation. The GMTC team had a delay of couple months pushing the replacements into 2012 instead of the earlier planned August 11 showcase.

Newer models are due for 2012.

Is the engine size that of the optra or the AVEO /others?

Is this good or bad news?

The bigger engine will be desirable, but with newer creature comfort features and updated styling will be the icing. Do you have any concrete source of information (i mean reliable) ?

Dhanu@DJ · 28th July 2011, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyur

If this is the case, I am overjoyed! I am glad I got the 2.0 litre beast just in time before the neutered version (1.6L) comes out!

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Originally Posted by Poitive

This sounds more like a Uva-Aveo/Sail with 1.6 engines et all. It is already known that the Aveo is getting replaced.

More when I am on the comp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimist

Is the engine size that of the optra or the AVEO /others?

Is this good or bad news?

The bigger engine will be desirable, but with newer creature comfort features and updated styling will be the icing. Do you have any concrete source of information (i mean reliable) ?

With the MUL's famous quote of "Kithna detha hai". GM seems to have taken the engine downsizing route to get the numbers on there side. Aveo/U-VA with 1.2 petrol and 1.4 or 1.5 diesel that they seem to have in china. 1.6 ltrs engines for Optra which is based on Lancetti platform from the Korean origin.

NoRules · 28th July 2011, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhanu@DJ

The engines will be 1.4 and 1.6 liter engines that are under evaluation.
Newer models are due for 2012.

Great. I am relieved because if magnum comes with 1.6 L then I would not be interested at all.

Thanks Dhanu@DJ. You have now convinced me I need to get my Magnum as soon as possible.

MAS · 28th July 2011, 23:49

This is bad news. GM should realize that Optra Magnum is selling because of the engine. IMO, they should retain the engine (tweak it for more power) and concentrate on adding features and improving handling. When will GM ever learn?

keyur · 29th July 2011, 00:39

Guys, make hay while the sun shines.. get the car while it's still not neutered (in the true sense - literally - there will be no testosterone without the 2.0).

On a more serious note, I feel that they might just about keep the 2.0 as the Optra Magnum Classic or something (like what Ford did) so that there is one for the die hard, torque lovers and then there is the other one for the boys who like toys!

P.S. The statement above was added as boys rhymes with toys and adds a chuckle. No intentions of hurting anyone. Those who do not like it may read it as "guys who like gadgets"!

Poitive · 29th July 2011, 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhanu@DJ

The design and interior's work for Aveo, U-VA and Optra are done @ the GMTC centre in Bangalore. The newer replacements would be shown at the Auto expo in Jan 2012. Will be mostly be replacing the existing models some time in the first quarter of 2012. The engines will be 1.4 and 1.6 liter engines that are under evaluation. The GMTC team had a delay of couple months pushing the replacements into 2012 instead of the earlier planned August 11 showcase.
------
Newer models are due for 2012.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhanu@DJ

With the MUL's famous quote of "Kithna detha hai". GM seems to have taken the engine downsizing route to get the numbers on there side. Aveo/U-VA with 1.2 petrol and 1.4 or 1.5 diesel that they seem to have in china. 1.6 ltrs engines for Optra which is based on Lancetti platform from the Korean origin.

Mate, Could you check if these are replacements for the Optra specifically? From what you say, they very much seem to fall in line as Uva and Aveo replacements.

A 1.2 petrol may be too small on the Aveo, given it's size, but still looks a possibility.

Yes, the chassis is based on the Lancetti. When the Magnum Diesel was launched, the chassis was further reinforced for the extra weight it was to carry and for better handling.

Questions in my mind about the Optra:
1. Would GM go back to the older chassis?

2. In it's current state the Magnum is 1370kgs. Would they want a small engine to power it and make it into a very sluggish machine? Would they be able to sell more of them, even at a further reduced price point?

3. If the above is done, would it not start to compete with it's own sibling, the Aveo? Is there space enough in the pricing to accommodate both? Remember that the Optra being as old as it is, may not be suitable to have premium pricing.

4. Would they price the Aveo pretty low and the Optra somewhere in the middle between that and the Cruze? Hmmmm - Are we then looking at an VERY cheap Aveo? Cheaper than the out going model?

5. Would they go the Maruti way, with different cars in a similar price segment?

We don't know how it will turn out to be.

There was ample talk about a new Optra/Aveo/Sail about 2 months back

Mention made here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post2379892

After a lot of talk on this, it was summarized here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post2396815

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimist

Is this good or bad news?

Depends on what is important for you : A new looking car with a lot of gizmos or the somewhat spartan and high quality classy looking beast we have now

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoRules

Great. I am relieved because if magnum comes with 1.6 L then I would not be interested at all.

Thanks Dhanu@DJ. You have now convinced me I need to get my Magnum as soon as possible.

Hey NoRules, I hope I don't miss this bus!!! Pray for me

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAS

This is bad news. GM should realize that Optra Magnum is selling because of the engine. IMO, they should retain the engine (tweak it for more power) and concentrate on adding features and improving handling. When will GM ever learn?

That could hurt their flagship car, the Cruze, which IMO is a lot lesser practical car than the Optra to start with. The Optra also has AWIS, which the Cruze doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyur

On a more serious note, I feel that they might just about keep the 2.0 as the Optra Magnum Classic or something (like what Ford did) so that there is one for the die hard, torque lovers and then there is the other one for the boys who like toys!

Issue with that may be that they would compete on price. One with a bigger engine, one with the toys/gadgets. But let us see and hope that it is retained, even if a new model of the Optra does come out. The Cruze was meant to the the new Otpra, making the current one the Classic, by Ford's nomenclature). Interesting developments!

keyur · 29th July 2011, 04:31

Currently GM has cars in the following order :

Spark < Beat P < Beat D < UVA & Aveo < Optra P < Optra D < Cruze

Considering that the Beat P had a 1.2L engine and the Beat D was given a 1.0L engine and assuming the new development figures (1.2L and 1.6L are correct), the most logical conclusion would be that the Aveo would get a 1.2l Diesel and they might (pray not) give the Optra a 1.6L D.

But again, if they already have a 1.0L Diesel, would they be working on the 1.2L D for the Aveo? Wouldn't it just make more sense to plonk the 1.6L into something that would replace both the Aveo and the Optra, (and probably keep the 2.0L Optra for us fanatics - please!!)

Anyways, these are the muddled thoughts coming to me at this hour when I should actually be asleep...

Dhanu@DJ · 29th July 2011, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyur

Currently GM has cars in the following order :

Spark < Beat P < Beat D < UVA & Aveo < Optra P < Optra D < Cruze

Considering that the Beat P had a 1.2L engine and the Beat D was given a 1.0L engine and assuming the new development figures (1.2L and 1.6L are correct), the most logical conclusion would be that the Aveo would get a 1.2l Diesel and they might (pray not) give the Optra a 1.6L D.

But again, if they already have a 1.0L Diesel, would they be working on the 1.2L D for the Aveo? Wouldn't it just make more sense to plonk the 1.6L into something that would replace both the Aveo and the Optra, (and probably keep the 2.0L Optra for us fanatics - please!!)

Anyways, these are the muddled thoughts coming to me at this hour when I should actually be asleep...

U-VA with 1.3 TCDi aka the national diesel and 1.2 petrol that is in Beat. Aveo with 1.4 petrol and either 1.3 diesel in different tune or the 1.5 diesel they currently have in China. Optra with both 1.6 or 1.6 petrol and 1.5 diesel that is the current information. As GMTC does work for all the developing nations plans they are working on all these engines and platforms and do not have exact combination known to them. But for sure Optra will have a downsize w.r.t diesel as there is no work for 2.0 Optra is going on.

prabhuferrari · 29th July 2011, 21:17

I checked at Sundaram motors Bangalore today. The new cars are a replacement for Aveo which are being launched in the SAIL brand. Since its from the dealer let's take it with a pinch of salt.

keyur · 31st July 2011, 02:29

Had been to a local car accessories outlet for helping out a friend accesorize his new Vento TDi (details here).

While I was waiting for the sales guy to be done with another customer, I saw a grey Swift DDIS outside, with the rear door open. I glanced in casually, and saw a box with a seemingly familiar logo and this made me take a closer look - it was the box of a RaceDynamics piggyback ECU.

This got me very very (very) excited as I had been trying to reach RD for the same, and seeing one such unit there meant that there was probably a dealer / fitter / tuner nearby! I searched around for the owner and literally grabbed him in my excitement. I didn't even realize that he was talking to someone on his phone (courtesy, manners and such other socially imposed behaviour go for a toss when pure instinct to try and get what you want kick in at full throttle). He had to explain to me that he was on the phone and would talk to me in a couple of minutes.

Well, I spent the next minute hovering around him and the car till he finally came over. I asked him about the ECU and asked him where he got it from - and guess what - he told me that he was the newly appointed representative for RD in Pune. That was like the cherry on top of the icing of the cake! (I think that I probably drooled right there, and the excitement on my face was probably visible, because the guy broke into a grin). I was like a kid who had just got his first bicycle (or probably the address to the bike shop with the new shiny bicycle).

The guy realized that I did not need an introduction to the ECU and asked me if I wanted to take the test drive. (Neki aur poochh poochh??). I had said a yes before he completed the sentence - and then realized that his ride was already modded. So before the test drive, I asked him to pop the hood of his Swift. Checked the DieselTronicPro piggyback ECU. It was pretty compact. One cable was going to the battery, another 2 to the ECU.
Quickly checked the feasibility and realized that I could fit it in myself.
Before even taking the test drive I asked him if I could get my Optra there and whether he would be able to change the necessary settings and TD my Optra instead.
He said that he did not have the corresponding maps or the connectors for that matter, so I had no option but to go in for the Swift test.

Before describing how the test went, here are a few details about the DT.
--------------------------------
The unit fits under the hood without altering any wiring. Has the necessary connectors and is a perfect plugin and sits between the ECU and the wiring going out from the ECU. It has 4 modes as follows :

Stock - Works as per the stock map (probably something like a bypass mode, returning the actual stock values from the ECU)
Economy - Reduces the power and torque and increases the FE (claimed to be upto 40%) - to be used when you give the car to your wife or dad
P1 - Power 1 mode. This is similar to what the regular ECU remaps return. About 20-30% increased torque and power. No idea about the FE. - for you when you want a power ride
P2 - Power 2 mode (AKA Crazy mode - AKA Clutch plate destroyer mode - AKA Tyre Burner Mode). - for you when you have or want a adrenaline rush, and also a lot of money to change your clutch plates and tyres!

Now the best part - To switch between these modes, all you need is the remote control and you can switch between these modes ON THE FLY - no stopping the vehicle, no getting out!
---------------------------------------

So, I got into the car, he took the car out to an open stretch. Initially he put the car in Stock mode. The car was OK. I wasn't doing any comparisons with the Optra, so will not bother telling the difference.
Drove for a bit. Then he put the vehicle into Economy mode. The pickup and the power dropped, could feel the same - had no way to check the economy. Drove around for a bit, had it put back into stock mode, and then after a bit, into P1.
The feeling was awesome. The extra torque and power was felt. (Actually I got so engrossed speeding about, that I forgot to see the max revvs and the speed). Also, keeping the car at about 1000-1200 rpms, I could easily shift upto the 5th gear without the engine stalling or even knocking for that matter. (So fitted on the Optra, that should take care of the turbo lag!). This was good, and now was the time to get to P2.
For P2, I stopped the vehicle and started from a standstill!. Put the vehicle into P2 mode, slotted to first, released the clutch and stepped on the accelerator, and before I could feel any movement, I heard the wheels spinning on the spot, smelt some rubber burning, I was thrown back, and we had lightspeed!! (well not exactly - you would need to have the Optra for the true Warp Zone effect and to reach lightspeed

). But seriously, the P2 mode is overkill - in my opinion, to be used only when you have stiffened suspensions at the least!

Got back with a lot of adrenaline rushing in, exchanged details with the rep and he has promised me another test soon. I am getting this fitted in asap (after first servicing at 5K)

All this while my poor friend was waiting at the accessories shop wondering where I had disappeared all of a sudden. Tried to explain him all this, and was also trying to convince him to get this fitted in his new Vento TDi, when he told me that he hardly crossed 80kph

!!

So started the activity to explain to him what a turbo is, how the effect is felt and so on (which basically meant a test drive of his brand new Vento). See this for that story!

All in all, it was a fruitful Saturday!

VeluM · 31st July 2011, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyur

All in all, it was a fruitful Saturday!

That writeup had me ROTFL

Did the person by any chance mention the price? Different models for different cars (like the Pete's box)?

Ps. Like your signature!

keyur · 31st July 2011, 16:48

The price on the site says 20K and thats what was quoted to me too. The box remains same. Connectors and maps change for different cars.

swiftnfurious · 31st July 2011, 21:42

Edit 2:: Just now noticed that some one else also asked the same question & you have replied to it.

You could answer the non-redundant questions please.

Say, if I change my car to another make of CRDi supported by RD, then what all changes do I need to do the box to be compatible with the new engine? Also how much will be the charges for mating the box to the new engine? [I sent these questions over an e-mail to RD guys, the mails either didn't deliver or they failed to reply me.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyur

...it was the box of a RaceDynamics piggyback ECU.

...he told me that he was the newly appointed representative for RD in Pune.

Couple of questions on the RD box.

1. Is it the same box that can be used on every machine / engine which is CRDI tech ? Or is it like the Pete's box which has a different box for different car / engine?

2. Whats the damage to the pocket for a Swift D / Optra TCDi ?

3. Do they suggest any add ons along with the box to take care of the extra smoking ?

4. Any warranty offered on this?

5. Are all current CRDi engines in India supported as of now?

I was wondering if the box is same for all engines, then the box is really worth. Currently with the Pete's box the problem is that once we sell the car, we cannot use the box unless we buy the same make / model. I also don't see much re-sale for this box and easily it will go only for almost the half-price of MRP once we sell it later, though its not a wear & tear item.

Edit:: By the way, whats your FE on the Optra in the City & on Highway?

keyur · 1st August 2011, 00:51

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