[SDP]

Originally Posted by Heavy Horse

SDP, with all due apologies, this is fulltime "baal ka khaal".

No wonder you guys are doing "keench" and "kat-kat" all the time

All this is par for the course for a VFM vehicle. The kind of "keenchless" ride you want, be ready to pony up Rs 75 lakhs for a BMW !!

I agree!
I remember when I was in US for the first time and looking around for used cars, we met the gentleman from whom I bought the Nissan Maxima. I was OK with the price. But I was new, so a friend was doing the talking. Just to get the price a coulple of hundred less, my friend mentioned to the owner that there is a little bit of weird sound coming from the suspension when going over rough roads. The owner smiled and replied "My friend, if you need a car that doesn't make any weird sounds, there is a new car showroom just around the corner!". Needless to say, we promptly paid what the gentleman was asking for and left with the car.

I do agree, that I tend to get too perfectionist sometimes. I had learnt to live with the 'keench', but the SA asked me TWICE if there is anything else that I would like them to look into. Since he was so helpful (and knowledgeable), I talked about the 'keench' as well. I told him we won't be able to reproduce that sound at all with all the noise around. I hear it only in my office parking ..which is multi-tiered. He immediately said I know what you are talking about!

About the mirror, you are not going to believe this!
I complained yesterday that even after they lubricating the gear mechanism of the mirror, there is no difference in the slow-closing behaviour. They replaced the mirror yesterday! The mirror is not a 80rs balancer-bar bush. The mirror assmbly costs 4500Rs! I doubt they would replace it just because a customer is cribbing about slow-closing.

But, you are right. I should put more focus on enjoying the car (instead of looking for imaginary problems)! Will work on that! Thanks!

Originally Posted by drmohitg

What about the consumables? Oil change, oil filter, fuel filter etc etc..? Total cost of service has to be more than 494 right?
Only labour is free in free service..

This was the 2nd service. No oil and filter changes as part of the 2nd service. Its mostly tyre-rotation, cleaning up things, lubricating, tightening etc. Hope that explains.

[Mudhalaipatti]

Originally Posted by SDP

I agree!
About the mirror, you are not going to believe this!
I complained yesterday that even after they lubricating the gear mechanism of the mirror, there is no difference in the slow-closing behaviour. They replaced the mirror yesterday! The mirror is not a 80rs balancer-bar bush. The mirror assmbly costs 4500Rs! I doubt they would replace it just because a customer is cribbing about slow-closing.

They changed mirror. Really ? And did it solve the problem and the two mirrors close in tandem? What was the issue then? This doesn't appear to be a one of problem, as mine also has the exact same problem, which I tried to magnanimously (!@#) overlook. If a replacement does synchronize the closing dance, then I may well ask for a replacement.

[SDP]

Originally Posted by Mudhalaipatti

They changed mirror. Really ? And did it solve the problem and the two mirrors close in tandem? What was the issue then? This doesn't appear to be a one of problem, as mine also has the exact same problem, which I tried to magnanimously (!@#) overlook. If a replacement does synchronize the closing dance, then I may well ask for a replacement.

I haven't checked if the new mirror closes in tandem with the other one. The vehicle came back around 8pm yesterday. Was kind of late. Will verify and update the thread later today.

[Maverick5490]

Doubt the mirrors closing timing will match perfectly. There is always a lag no matter which brand of cars you look at. Personally seen it on numerous BMW's/RR's and tried solving it, but its just the way it is!

[SDP]

Originally Posted by Maverick5490

Doubt the mirrors closing timing will match perfectly. There is always a lag no matter which brand of cars you look at. Personally seen it on numerous BMW's/RR's and tried solving it, but its just the way it is!

Maverick, any idea why 2 independent motors can not be made to run at the same speed? Just trying to understand it from a technology perspective.

[Maverick5490]

Originally Posted by SDP

Maverick, any idea why 2 independent motors can not be made to run at the same speed? Just trying to understand it from a technology perspective.

The only logical thing I can think of is the distance between the 2 mirrors and the location of the switch. Maybe there is a delay in the signal to reach the farther mirror which might cause it to closer later. You can time the closing time for each mirror individually, could be they take the exact same time, but the other mirror might start moving later which causes the difference!

[Heavy Horse]

Originally Posted by SDP

But, you are right. I should put more focus on enjoying the car (instead of looking for imaginary problems)! Will work on that! Thanks!

Hi SDP thanks for taking my comment sportingly. When I go through the niggles post, I feel that a lot of the guys have extremely high expectations, having paid Rs 16 lakhs. Some of it needs to be tempered. Having said that issues like constant pulling to the left are unacceptable, for sure. That is where I feel a bit disappointed with M&M. Luckily for me my vehicle does not suffer from these issues and has been largely niggle free.

Originally Posted by Mudhalaipatti

Interestingly my left pulling got somewhat corrected after the tyre rotation. So it's do with the DNA of XUV. uh !

Ah, I thought I was just imagining things, when I realized my right mirror takes more time to close, than the left. The left mirror has had it's share of kisses from buses and bikes and I thought something must have loosened, that's causing the left one to close faster. Let me check this the next time I visit the SS.

Mudhalaipatti, your sense of humour and expression is really entertaining apart from the technical inputs you provide. I daresay you can have a great career as a blogger, blending technical writing with great humorous touches. It's a rare quality.

[carzone]

Originally Posted by Maverick5490

The only logical thing I can think of is the distance between the 2 mirrors and the location of the switch. Maybe there is a delay in the signal to reach the farther mirror which might cause it to closer later.

This is not possible. The signals traveling through the wires that change the settings are electric signals traveling at the speed of light, i.e. 300000000 m/sec. Definitely, at this speed, the signal delay from the switch to the mirror is not at all noticeable.

The reason behind this can be the impedance of the wire or the adjustment mechanism of the mirror differ from each other, hence there is difference in the current delivered to the motors which cause the difference in the speed. This is just an assumption.

I don't know weather the motor is directly connected to the switch or the signal of the switch goes to the controller of the car and from there a signal to change the position of the motors is sent. If so, there can be programming errors or execution errors depending on the speed of the processor. IT guys can confirm the theory.

You can time the closing time for each mirror individually, could be they take the exact same time, but the other mirror might start moving later which causes the difference!

That is what I too am wondering. The reason for the other mirror to start later. As you are saying, it is there for almost all the brands, might there be any logic behind implementing this system purposefully(if at all it is implemented purposefully)?

[Maverick5490]

Originally Posted by carzone

This is not possible. The signals traveling through the wires that change the settings are electric signals traveling at the speed of light, i.e. 300000000 m/sec. Definitely, at this speed, the signal delay from the switch to the mirror is not at all noticeable.

The reason behind this can be the impedance of the wire or the adjustment mechanism of the mirror differ from each other, hence there is difference in the current delivered to the motors which cause the difference in the speed. This is just an assumption.

I don't know weather the motor is directly connected to the switch or the signal of the switch goes to the controller of the car and from there a signal to change the position of the motors is sent. If so, there can be programming errors or execution errors depending on the speed of the processor. IT guys can confirm the theory.


That is what I too am wondering. The reason for the other mirror to start later. As you are saying, it is there for almost all the brands, might there be any logic behind implementing this system purposefully(if at all it is implemented purposefully)?

Hi Carzone,

Yes agree with you, but that was just my logical thinking. These vehicles have a central ECU which provides the signal for closing/opening the mirrors. They are not powered directly from the switch. So another possibility is the delay due to motors having slight difference in speed.

As for doing it on purpose, I do'nt think so. As it really does not solve any purpose.

@SDP: Please post your feedback, also the time taken to open the mirrors, both from the inside switch and the remote. Homework for you tonight!!

[SDP]

Second service @10K kms - Followup visit

The service center could not fix the vehicle pulling to the left problem even after multiple tries on Saturday. Looking at my displeasure, the RM and the service-advisor offered to pick up the vehicle from my home or my office on Tuesday (21st May). The driver called me up and picked up the vehicle at 9:30am.

I called up the RM and asked him to look into the following issues that were not resolved correctly on Saturday:

1. Vehicle pulling to the left + steering off-center -> Checked it today. Seems noticeably better. Not perfect. I am not even going to chase 'perfect'.

2. Second row right side AC vent does not close properly -> They checked. Inside flap is broken. The unit needs to be replaced. Part not in stock. Would come in after 3-4 days. I am not going there again after 3-4 days.

3. Minor squeak inside the cabin -> They checked and tightened something. Still exists. Never mind. I am not going to worry about it.

4. Right side mirror slower than left side mirror -> They replaced the mirror assembly under warranty. Checked it once or twice. Seems better synchronized.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I went to the service center on Saturday for the 10K service, I mentioned to my RM : "The next service is at 20K. I hope I don't have to visit before that."

In hindsight, both me and the RM should thrown our heads back and laughed after that statement!

[getsurya]

I am not even going to chase 'perfect'

No wonder you guys are doing "keench" and "kat-kat" all the time

Hi SDP & Heavy horse, This is exactly where the manufacturers are taking a ride of us and our money

They know that the best of the owners who 'take care' of their cars would finally give in and 'compromise' to the product and not complain thereafter. Same thing happened with me, as well. The A.S.C. were the saving grace and understood my 'passion & perfectionist' approach. On a friendly note, some of the A.S.C managers have advised me why not to buy M&M vehicles.

In my view, the operating model of M&M is such that the vendors of the manufacturer command the 'quality' norms rather being vice versa. I guess that is because M&M partners with vendors to drive thier designs & investments(my view ONLY!). So, they are happy replacing everything under warranty for those customers who complain(and please remember not many complain!) and they form a miniscule of data points.

As long as the Quality norms are not tightened and follow rigid parameters, we continue to get 'used' to the product.

[SDP]

First real shower in Mumbai suburbs! Free car-wash!

That reminds me, have to give Duma a coat of Collinite before rainy season starts in full glory.

Also, where's the "52 weekends from Mumbai" Outlook Traveller?

[engrohit]

Originally Posted by SDP

First real shower in Mumbai suburbs! Free car-wash!

That reminds me, have to give Duma a coat of Collinite before rainy season starts in full glory.

Also, where's the "52 weekends from Mumbai" Outlook Traveller?

Great, looking forward to more of your travelogues. It was your piece on Bhandardara which inspired me to make that trip last year

[SDP]

Originally Posted by engrohit

Great, looking forward to more of your travelogues. It was your piece on Bhandardara which inspired me to make that trip last year

In the mean time, the Duma is going to the service center again tomorrow (Saturday) for the following:
1. After they fixed the "vehicle pulling to the left" issue, the steering has started to wobble a bit at 100-110kmph.
2. The rear-bench-right-side AC vent is in stock now. Need to get that replaced.
3. New design balancer bar bushes are available. Need to get those replaced as well.

The no. of visits to the service center has now started to concern me. On a lighter note, looking at the number of TBHPIans in Thane, may be the M&M service center in Manpada can be a TBHP Mini-meet point every other Saturday or so.

[SDP]

Duma @10,000 kms