[Mudhalaipatti]

Originally Posted by SDP

If the sensor-wires have been sheared off due to coming in contact with some moving part and not because of a rat issue, there is a case for the damage being covered under warranty.

SDP, could you also post pic of the location of the sensors, along with the sensor wires that got damaged. Would be interested to see if this is a structural/design issue or more of an environmental issue.

[SDP]

Originally Posted by Mudhalaipatti

SDP, could you also post pic of the location of the sensors, along with the sensor wires that got damaged. Would be interested to see if this is a structural/design issue or more of an environmental issue.

Being a working day (and having faith in the driver that came last time), I allowed the vehicle to be picked up from home. So I am not very sure about the exact location of the sensors. Even I have a doubt about this being a design/material issue. Just imagine, a cheetah being brought down to its knees by a rat, just because of unshielded wires in the wheel-well!

[Maverick5490]

Originally Posted by SDP

Running repairs 26th June 2013

FLH wheel speed sensor assembly (2 pieces) -> 2,226 Rs
Wheel speed sensor R&R labour -> 157 Rs
Vehicle diagnostic by special tools -> 975 Rs

Any opinions? Do you think I am being taken for a ride OR is this normal?

Hi SDP,

Being charged for diagnosis is common these days due to the high investment costs in the diagnostic tools. If the job is under warranty, the dealer charges back to the manufacturer. Also need to consider the fact that the technicians need to be trained on it. Brands like BMW charge upwards of Rs.2000 just for a scan.

It is advisable to have the vehicle diagnosed for such defects as there could be multiple reasons for the DTC's, it also shows if there are any hidden DTC's present but which do not affect the vehicle's running.

From your description of the drive it seems like the Sensor was damaged due to rubbing against something, else the warnings would have come immediately once you left home. Do post the pics of the same.

Also why were two sensors replaced? Highly impropbable that a rat would chew the Wheel sensors on either wheels!

Here is a schematic of the location of the sensor.

[SDP]

Originally Posted by Maverick5490

Hi SDP,

Being charged for diagnosis is common these days due to the high investment costs in the diagnostic tools. If the job is under warranty, the dealer charges back to the manufacturer. Also need to consider the fact that the technicians need to be trained on it. Brands like BMW charge upwards of Rs.2000 just for a scan.

It is advisable to have the vehicle diagnosed for such defects as there could be multiple reasons for the DTC's, it also shows if there are any hidden DTC's present but which do not affect the vehicle's running.
....
Here is a schematic of the location of the sensor.

Maverick5490, thanks for the detailed information and the diagram.

From your description of the drive it seems like the Sensor was damaged due to rubbing against something, else the warnings would have come immediately once you left home. ...

Also why were two sensors replaced? Highly impropbable that a rat would chew the Wheel sensors on either wheels!

Exactly!

These 2 are brilliant points and I was actually thinking about drafting my mail to customer-care around exactly the same points!

Not very sure, why the service center didn't do this job under warranty. If a job is done under warranty OR charged to the customer, the service center does get paid for the job in either case. So can't think of any logical reason for the service-center to do a job under warranty.

[debuda]

Originally Posted by SDP

Running repairs 26th June 2013
FLH wheel speed sensor assembly (2 pieces) -> 2,226 Rs
Wheel speed sensor R&R labour -> 157 Rs
Vehicle diagnostic by special tools -> 975 Rs

Any opinions? Do you think I am being taken for a ride OR is this normal?

IMHO, charging Rs 975 for diagnostics is not correct. I have never been charged for such a thing either by Maruti or Mahindra. As far as BMW, Merc, Audi, etc., are concerned, they may have a different pricing policy for such diagnostics but as far as I know Indian car makers usually don't charge separately for using a diagnostic tool.

[SDP]

Thanks everyone for the expert comments.

Here are detailed pics of the damaged speed-sensor assemblies.
You can click on the images for better resolution images.

The 2 sensor-assemblies returned by the service-center. Red rectangles mark the damaged areas.


Cut on the first part. Looks like from friction rather than a rat bite.


Cut on the second part.


Side by side.


A closeup. Isn't it interesting that sensor assemblies on BOTH front wheels got chewed by rats at approximately the same position on the same night?


The part number.


A picture of the wheel-well showing the new sensor assembly.


My conclusion: Just too much of a coincidence that speed-sensor assemblies in BOTH wheel-wells got chewed by rats on the SAME night and they chewed at the EXACT SAME spot on both wires. I am going to write to customer-care with some of these photos. The cuts also look too clean for a rat-bite. It looks more like the wires have rubbed againsts something or came in contact with something sharp.

Please let me know your opinions.

[.anshuman]

Looking at the wires, they seem to have been rubbing with something, this clearly is not a case of rat bite but another design flaw. Please take up the case with Mahindra customer care/ Regional office, i would never have paid for this job.

[EagleEye]

Originally Posted by SDP

My conclusion: Just too much of a coincidence that speed-sensor assemblies in BOTH wheel-wells got chewed by rats on the SAME night and they chewed at the EXACT SAME spot on both wires. I am going to write to customer-care with some of these photos. The cuts also look too clean for a rat-bite. It looks more like the wires have rubbed againsts something or came in contact with something sharp.

Please let me know your opinions.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Looking at the wires, they seem to have been rubbing with something, this clearly is not a case of rat bite but another design flaw. Please take up the case with Mahindra customer care/ Regional office, i would never have paid for this job.

Agree. From the looks of it, it seems that the wires could have been damaged by something on the road. Maybe you scraped a speed bump badly?
Often these wires are simply hanging below the car without a proper casing. At least that's the case with my car.

[anandtheleo]

Definitely not rat bite, i beleive you should raise this with Mahindra for sure. Do mark a cc to Sanjoy Gupta.

I am sure glad that my fellow XUV owners are a tenacious lot

[aajohn]

Originally Posted by anandtheleo

Definitely not rat bite, i beleive you should raise this with Mahindra for sure.

Absolutely agree - unless the rats were military trained!! Keep us updated on the outcome.

[SDP]

Thank you gentlemen for your views which are exactly inline with what I was thinking.

Yesterday I posted a picture of the wheel-well showing the speed-sensor assembly partially. Today morning I put on my C.S.I. cap and decided to dig deeper. Jacked up the front left wheel, turned the steering to extreme right and got under the car with my D90 in hand. Here are my detailed observations and views.

Here's a pic of the speed-sensor assemblies from yesterday on which I have marked 5 points A-B-C-D-E.


The point A is the highest point in the wheel-well, where another connector takes the signal to some ECU under the hood. Point A has a sort of a clip which attaches the sensor-assembly to the car's body.


Moving downwards, point-B is a rubber-part with a groove. This again attaches to the car's body. There is a U shaped clip on the body-wall where you have to press the rubber-part's goove. Point-C is similar, the difference being it attaches to a point towards the upper portion of the shock-absorber. Please note the rubber sleeve between points B and C, apparently provided to protect the wire from rubbing against the shock-absorber.


The wire goes further down. Point D is a plastic clip that attaches to the lower portion of the shock-absorber. The wire continues further down and towards the wheel and ends behind the brake-disc.


That's the point-E - the end point of the speed-sensor assembly - which is indirectly attached to the wheel from behind the brake-disc. It uses a bolt to connect the point E to the portion behind the brake-disc.


A closer look at point-E


A closer look at points B & C and the U-shaped clips for holding the assembly at points B & C.


A clearer picture of point-D.


Now I had the big picture about the speed-sensor assembly, where it is located and at how many points it is attached to the frame. I looked at the damaged sensor assembly and realized that the damage is in the section between point C and D. Now the question was - what exactly went wrong?

Zen and the art of motorcyle maintenance has one beautiful statement - "..just stare at the machine. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just live with it for a while. Watch it the way you watch a line when fishing and before long, as sure as you live, you’ll get a little nibble, a little fact asking in a timid, humble way if you’re interested in it. "

I took a lot of pictures, came out, looked at the pictures, went down there again, took more pictures and in general spent a good time oberseving. Checked the slack in the wire between points C and D. Didn't seem excessive. No part of that section is touching anything or rubbing against anything.

Next line of thought: May be Mahindra's redesigned the speed-sensor assembly and may be the new one (installed in my car) is shorter and has less slack. Picked up the old damaged sensor assembly and traced it against the new one. It is of the same length. The lengths of various sections between two points also matched. So, no new design.

Next line of thought: Next line of thought: May be the assembly came loose at any one or more of the 5 attaching points. Removed the point-C from the U-shaped clip and BINGO! Now with the wire clamped at point B & D, the slack in the wire was more and it was touching the inner side of the tyre at the exact same spot where the wires of the previous sensors were damaged! Tried to find some evidence supporting my theory and BINGO again! On the inner side of the tyre, although there is no damage, there are signs of something rubbing. Look at the lettering in the following snap. The lower portion of the letters is clean. That means something was rubbing against it!


So, ladies and gentleman, here's the culprit. Here's the point-C again.


Looks like the assembly came off at this point OR may be it was not connected correctly when the vehicle went for service/repairs last time. The loose wire rubbed against the tyre and eventually got sheared causing the ABS+ESP malfunction.

One mystery solved!

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BTW, its Duma's b'day today! It was exactly one year back, I got the delivery.

Dear Duma, you have got some lousy nurses and doctors at the clinic. Sorry about that! Hope you are at least happy with your owner!

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EDIT: The thread has crossed 1 lakh views this week! Thank you everyone for being part of the journey and helping me with a lot of questions and doubts.

[carzone]

Dude, that was a complete postmortem to the problem in your DUMA!
Hats off! Spending a lazy Sunday morning beneath the car is something a true petrolhead can do.

One question, how are you going to make the service guys believe that it was not a rat-cut. I doubt they would be taking your say so easily. You going to pursue this further?

And yeah! Happie Birhtday Duma!

EDIT: The thread has crossed 1 lakh views this week! Thank you everyone for being part of the journey and helping me with a lot of questions and doubts.

Thank you as well for answering all these doubts and questions to the full of our satisfaction! You deserved it!

[SDP]

Originally Posted by carzone

Dude, that was a complete postmortem to the problem in your DUMA!
Hats off! Spending a lazy Sunday morning beneath the car is something a true petrolhead can do.

One question, how are you going to make the service guys believe that it was not a rat-cut. I doubt they would be taking your say so easily. You going to pursue this further?

And yeah! Happie Birhtday Duma!



Thank you as well for answering all these doubts and questions to the full of our satisfaction! You deserved it!

Hey, thanks buddy!

Have wrote a mail to the customer-care-area-manager yesterday night. Sent him 3 spaps of the clean cut wires. Have asked for a full refund for the repair job as it should have been covered under warranty. I am pretty sure that I have a case. Would go the Customer-care VP if needed. I don't give up easily.

[EagleEye]

Wow, SDP.. I've never seen anyone analyzing it like that!
Back when I had my Figo the airbag sign came on, and when I took it to the A.S.S. they said it was rat bite. But then after some inspection they themselves admitted that it was a failure of the cable, and replaced it under warranty.

So if it was the clip holding the wires that came undone, then they would have seen it when you took the car to the workshop. They would have definitely come to know that it wasn't rat bite. And in spite of that they charged you for the repairs.

Definitely unethical behavior on their part!

[SDP]

Originally Posted by EagleEye

Wow, SDP.. I've never seen anyone analyzing it like that!
Back when I had my Figo the airbag sign came on, and when I took it to the A.S.S. they said it was rat bite. But then after some inspection they themselves admitted that it was a failure of the cable, and replaced it under warranty.

So if it was the clip holding the wires that came undone, then they would have seen it when you took the car to the workshop. They would have definitely come to know that it wasn't rat bite. And in spite of that they charged you for the repairs.

Definitely unethical behavior on their part!

Thanks EagleEye! The service-center guys definitely know what was the real cause of the problem and also know that they themselves are responsible for it (the wires that came undone from the clips) as they are the only ones who work on my car.

Definitely unethical behaviour. That's the reason why I have escalated directly to customer-care and have not bothered to take up the matter with the service-center folks.