[Ace F355]

A quick glimpse of our recently concluded overlanding trip in Rajasthan!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7v74OLgQfw

Ready to attack some dunes!


Fancy electronics of the new Endeavour Vs simple mechanical systems of good ol' Toyota? I think you'd know my answer!


Long Sweeping sand dunes... Can you spot a V-Cross?


Sun going down... means time for some good pictures.


Part of the full Convoy.


.anshuman carefully looking out for appropriate tracks for approaching cars


Camp fire for the night...


A really satisfying experience, seeing all those cars resting in their natural habitat, under god's bedsheet!


Atlantis parked under the starlit sky with Celestial River of stars! Our Galaxy - the Milkyway...


More pics and videos to come!

[Lone Ranger]

Wow I can't wait for more details about this trip! What tyre pressures were you using for the Endy and Fortuner? Great to see the gypsy amongst the big boys, looks so fleet footed in comparison to the behemoths! (not a criticism of the other rides, just an uninformed observation )

[Ace F355]

Originally Posted by Lone Ranger

What tyre pressures were you using for the Endy and Fortuner?

Almost all cars were running on 12-15 PSI. Gypsy with its Mud Terrain tires could have been lower further, even upto 8-9 PSI. This particular Gypsy belongs to a fellow BHPian and friend, mustysekhon.

Originally Posted by Lone Ranger

Great to see the gypsy amongst the big boys, looks so fleet footed in comparison to the behemoths!

Absolutely.

Light weight works on Gypsy's side in most of cases during off-road. It actually behaves like a mountain goat in right hands. Except for the new Endeavour, which completely outwitted its drivers with its electronics (and even the seasoned off-roaders of the group who literally tried almost all permutation/combinations to rescue it at times, and it was frustrating to say the least), even rest of the SUVs were sublime and in right gear with right accelerator inputs were floating over sand dunes... We had jokingly named the new Endeavour, "Dunes ki Drama Queen ". We were planning this trip for long and enjoyed the experience thoroughly.

Expect a brief report on the drive in due time.

[Ace F355]

Time for another update:

Atlantis (or Gajraj, as most of the friends love to call him) crossed two lakh kilometers on the odometer during sometime in late November 2017.



I will start the update with a little grudge and frustration I have been carrying against Toyota. As you all know, I have been sending my truck to Toyota for regular maintenance and repairs (if any) and my experience has been great overall. However, I happened to have found a problem unique to my generation of Fortuners. The link rod in four-link rear suspension of my vehicle gives up every now and then. I found out this is a known issue with Fortuners in South Africa, however I don't seem to find this anywhere reported in India. In fact, I have seen Toyota mechanics scratching their heads and asking me repeatedly how this rod was broken, because apparently across all the dealerships I have been to, none of the dealerships have had to replace this component. But MGF Toyota Gurgaon, has put in 3 rods in my truck in 2017 year itself! Go figure!!!

During recent service of 210k kms.


Broken piece of linkage rod.


The placement of rod in rear suspension (for better visualization)


Link to a South African Thread on this topic

As per my understanding, this linkage rod breaks when Fortuner's rear suspension bottoms out or is pressed inside the wheelwell at its maximum articulation levels (which has been the case with me because of all that offroad I do). The spare part by itself isn't really cheap at INR 6k, considering it is a simple steel rod needed to prevent any movement of rear axle in the direction of moving wheels (kind of a stabilizer rod, if I can call it that). My complain to Toyota is, this component should not give up like this. Anyway, if it gives up on me again, I will have to go South African way to replace it next time and get one fabricated (with thicker piping but rest all specs remaining same) for myself.

Apart from this small issue with rear suspension, nothing to complain and Atlantis has chugging along nicely and is currently serving at home. My usage for Atlantis has been a varying mix of daily driver + weekend offroader + overlanding vehicle + family usage. The fact is, it has been such a versatile vehicle in one package and has never disappointed me at any stage. Even at 200k+ kms on the odo, he is in ship shape and always ready to me to next adventurous day of my life!

At his regular parking spot.


During weekends...


During 2018's first long drive with Family...


A quick pic of rock sliders that have been taking a beating and protecting the car during off-road all this while. Right side vehicle is .anshuman's V Cross, with another design of sliders also serving as foot steps (mine don't).


However, as I see it in short term, the replacement of the suspension rod and next set of mods (including ARB Air Locker in rear) may not happen for a few months at least because I am temporarily relocated to Mumbai for work 3 weeks back, and will think about getting the car here once I settle down. Honestly, with Mumbai's traffic in mind + possible issues with cops on a DL registered car with so many mods (bullbar etc), I think it will be prudent not to relocate the car immediately; although on a lighter note, Mumbai seems to be an ideal city for my car, full of craters offroading all the time + Mumbai monsoons can make good use of snorkel too!

As always, I have loved to take the car on long trips, and before I moved to Mumbai, a couple of friends decided to do a winter snow drive and offroad trip to Spiti Valley in Himachal Pradesh. Ideally, we would like to write a travelogue on the trip, however I have been short on time these days and things are falling behind schedule. So I am posting a couple of pics from the trip on my ownership thread only. Hoping to write up a detailed travelogue at later point of time (same with Dune Bashing trip we did in November!). Enjoy the pics meanwhile.
















A quick preview video of our trip from .anshuman's YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuBM8fkOwKw

Longer version of Spiti River Crossing video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVRH2Ywgcxs

Recovering .anshuman's Isuzu stuck in snow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsCBGXh95-8

Also sharing a couple of panorama shots from our trip in Spiti.

Lunch break at the banks of Sutlej river


Finding solace at calm Spiti River


Crossing Pin Valley area


Somewhere in frozen Spiti Valley...

[ToyotaFan]

Great to see Atlantis munching up miles rather nicely. Regarding the link rod issue I hope Toyota rectified the issue in later fortuners (I have a 2013 car) as its very unlike Toyota to have a mechanical part fail again and again. Loved the pictures of the spiti snow drive you posted and videos by Anshuman.
I have a question on snow chains for the fortuner. Where did you source them from and what was the approximate cost? I am from NCR (Meerut) so it would be a great help. I have a 4*4 MT car and have been using it for Ladakh/Spiti/Bhutan/Arunachal and other long distance drives. Nothing as extreme as you do. I love to drive to the Himalayas to catch snowfall in the winters but have restricted myself to Shimla/Narkanda/Auli/Manali due to fear of getting stuck in excessive snow. Tips on driving on snow/ice and regarding use of snow chains will be highly appreciated.

[Ace F355]

More pics from the Spiti Drive below.

Just after Narkanda... stopped for a quick break.


That's Kinnar Kailash mountain, as seen from our hotel in Rekong Peo. We were disappointed to see such low amounts of snow in this winter and knew the quest for a snow drive will take us much deeper into the Himalayas.


A little Peek-a-Boo.


On our way to Kaza


Getting closer to Kunjum La


Tagging along with both Gypsy's


Near Losar






Discussing whether we cross this frozen river on the road! In the end, didn't take chance to cross it because in case of slippage, recovery would have been impossible!


That's how scary it looked from driver's perspective.


Spiti river crossing.


.anshuman checking the river crossing footage on his camera (wet bonnet tells the story of how deep the car was in the river!)


Entering Pin Valley National Park


Pretty cold even when Sun has been shining for at least 3 hours!


In Pin Valley




During the tricky climb during snow drive.





Also, adding some more pics from our desert and dune bashing drive from Rajasthan.

Just before Bikaner




Long stretching dunes in sight






Attacking some dune climbs




With Sumit's V-Cross.




Wolfpack!

[Ace F355]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Great to see Atlantis munching up miles rather nicely.

Thanks ToyotaFan. Next few months will see the odometer climb slowing down a little.

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Regarding the link rod issue I hope Toyota rectified the issue in later fortuners (I have a 2013 car) as its very unlike Toyota to have a mechanical part fail again and again.

I doubt that because rear suspension design is same in both pre and post-facelift Fortuners. And this issue was highlighted by those who offroad and often get to see the conditions in which these linkages break. Never the less, why I never wrote about it earlier was because of the fact that I thought I must have done something stupid to get it broken like that. However, with repeated incidents of replacements, I am sure it is a compromised design from OEM itself and because now I understand exactly in what sort of conditions it gives up, I am a bit careful not to get into extreme articulations now-a-days. However, that being said, the design of this rod is so simple, I am 100% sure it is a piece of cake to fabricate with a thicker and better grade of steel and should resolve the issue permanently. That's how most offroaders in South Africa got theirs sorted.

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Loved the pictures of the spiti snow drive you posted and videos by Anshuman.

Thanks, I am glad you liked them.

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Where did you source them from and what was the approximate cost?

They are called Auto-Trac and are from a company named Peerless Chains, based in USA. Cost about INR 14k, including delivery to India. You can look up on their website for exact part number and order from Amazon's global store.

With our limited exposure with these chains, we are happy with the product overall. Unlike custom made chains, these do not scratch your alloys, or risk tangling into other vehicle parts inside wheelwell. And the best part about these is, once you get yourself familiar with the installation process, putting them on and off the vehicle is 5 minutes job. And in extreme conditions, time makes a big difference.

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Tips on driving on snow/ice and regarding use of snow chains will be highly appreciated.

To put up a few brief points that I can think off my head...

• Being gentle is the key. No hard throttle or brakes or you will spin off the road.
• Consistent but gentle inputs, drive as slow as possible but as fast as needed to keep the momentum going.
• If get stuck in deep snow, better to reverse immediately and try again, rather than dig yourself in by spinning wheels.
• Chains on Front or Rear axle? Depends on driver's preference because both situation have their own compromises. Ideally, chains should be put on both axles. Putting them on front will give you good steering feedback, good braking but because rear wheels will have no guidance, chances of oversteer will be high in case of high speed. Rear axle mounting is considered a good compromise if one pair of chains is there, it will guide the rear wheels better, but off-course steering and brakes will not be as good. Whatever the situation, once chains are mounted one needs to control their speeds anyway (remember the golden rule of 'as slow as possible but as fast as needed')
• With chains mounted, try not to drive on hard tarmac/surfaces because it will increase the risk of chain breakage.
• Learn to control the slide if it happens anyway. One needs to be calm and patient and understand the concept of steering in the direction of slide. With our kind of snowroad without boulders, one slip could also mean THE END!
• Vehicle recovery in snow is a different ballgame altogether. Proper recovery kit and expertise is needed to recover a stuck vehicle in snow. Practice and never venture while being short on essential recovery equipment.

[2000rpm]

Man, the fortuner is one car that always puts my otherwise clear mind into endless confusion. I see threads like this and feel like buying a Fortuner, but everytime I go check out a couple of used cars, I start to hate the car and just cant understand the pricing. Anyone else in the same boat?

[pcpranav]

Hi buddy,
just came across this thread today, timing is just right, read ahead!

Initial words: awesome thread, awesome vehicle - Atlantis, awesome pics, awesome trips, awesome information. I wish you hundreds of happy and safe miles on your vehicle.

I happen to see some of Anshuman's off-road videos, and saw Atlantis few times. Even his V-Cross is superb, and hey guys you do some wonderful off-road stuff, kudos.

Slightly OT:
OK now here is the matter. After reading your thread on T-Fortuner, I had a small sweet dream of owning one, of-course a pre-worshipped only which could suit my small pocket.

Anshuman's lovely videos of his V-Cross and some other members even made me want a V-Cross, but its quite long vehicle on a negative part for me. And the added costs of accessories, some which are necessary.
Scorpio S11 4WD (even expensive than previous models) is being thought about, stretching too much of my budgets.

However, within 2 hours of reading your thread (I would give all credit to you!), I first time searched few pre-owned Fortuner in Mumbai. Luckily in a while found a listing at my local dealer's place itself.
I was shown two vehicles, hardly saw for 5 min each:
1) a 2013 model 4x2 MT about 80000 KM, White, this was facelift (ICE was touchscreen, driver seat was electronically adjustable, etc). Since it was 4x2, didnt interest me.

2) a 2011 (2012 registered) model 4x4 MT with ~78000 ODO, White. In first glance I saw the entertainment system was pretty old type. I want a 4x4 MT for sure, but this looked more aged, I mean by number Y2011. First verbal quote ~16.4 Lacs OTR, saying insurance is valid till Jan'19, price Im sure can be negotiated.

The guy said just 2 days back a 2013 4x4 MT was sold off, Im not sure, but anyways.
He said that both are accident free vehicles, small scratches will be fully removed (painted) and full servicing will be done. Full Service History would be available to refer. I left my number if any recent manufactured 2013/14 in 4x4 MT could be located at good price.

Requesting to please comment on the 2) option, if that is worth evaluating. I have very limited knowledge in these matters, and vehicle surely has to be on bank loan.

With this small dream, I will try to search more on popular websites, any pointers will be helpful. thanks in advance for helping me, and lets see what lies ahead for me.

again, wishing you lovely memories with Atlantis.

best regards,
Pranav

[Ace F355]

Originally Posted by pcpranav

awesome thread, awesome vehicle - Atlantis, awesome pics, awesome trips, awesome information. I wish you hundreds of happy and safe miles on your vehicle.

Thanks a lot for your kind wishes, Pranav.

Originally Posted by pcpranav

Anshuman's lovely videos of his V-Cross and some other members even made me want a V-Cross, but its quite long vehicle on a negative part for me. And the added costs of accessories, some which are necessary.

If you can adjust yourself with the size of the vehicle, I would still suggest you go for the V-Cross. Remember when I bought my car, V Cross wasn't on sale. New vehicle will entitle you much longer shelf life, less headaches in terms of maintenance, and the facelift V-Cross now comes loaded and is a good package, with added benefits like Traction control and ESC, inbuilt entertainment system, cruise control and leather seats. It is worth paying extra money for these features.

Plus the advantage of buying a new V-Cross is that you don't need to plonk all of that money in one go. With a new vehicle, you have option to prepare it step by step (like .anshuman is doing!), use the vehicle and find the shortcomings, then work out to iron out the issues as per your own needs. You don't need to go for all accessories, you can take your time (one or two years, may be more) and this vehicle can serve you for a much longer time to come.

Originally Posted by pcpranav

Scorpio S11 4WD (even expensive than previous models) is being thought about, stretching too much of my budgets.

If I were you, I wouldn't even consider it unless the strict requirement is brand new vehicle with ladder frame construction and 7 seats. It may be freshened up version, the underpinnings are from dinosaur age (same goes for Storme). The new Scorpio may be a good package on its own, it doesn't even come close to Japs like Fortuner or V-Cross when it comes to durability and on/offroad performance.

Originally Posted by pcpranav

1) a 2013 model 4x2 MT about 80000 KM, White

No point in 4x2 Fortuner in my opinion. It is dhobi-ka-kutta! On road comfort is far inferior than vehicles that cost half as much and off-road, it is as useless as it can be. Truth is, previous gen Fortuner in 4x2 AT disguise used to sell a lot because of its street presence and people used to have excuse that they need an AT which Innova didn't have in those days. With Crysta in market now, both issues are sorted. Crysta has better comfort on offer and comes with same engine and AT gearbox. So, for a MPV nothing beats that combo and it shows in Crysta's sales. While I agree that Fortuner 4x2 still sells like hotcakes, the hard fact is that people buy it to massage their ego because at the end of the captain seat Crysta is still better package for on-road driving.

For me a real SUV has to be 4x4, period.

Originally Posted by pcpranav

2) a 2011 (2012 registered) model 4x4 MT

Truth be told, I can't tell you online whether it is good buy. Plenty of Fortuners on sale, and the hard fact is that you will find a lot of them having odo tempered or high wear and tear. You may want to go through the article below and follow it to the T.

See This

In used car market, good deals are as long as they last. No two deals are directly comparable. My suggestion to you would be 1) Either you pick up a newer year vehicle by paying some extra money OR 2) Go for an older vehicle within your comfortable budget but make sure it is well maintained.

Either way, I think pre-owned Fortuner or a new V-Cross both make sense to me. Pajero Sport, may be yes, if you are too tight on your budget to go for Fortuner. Good luck in your vehicle hunt, looking forward to see you buy your dream vehicle soon.

[pcpranav]

Originally Posted by Ace F355

....
In used car market, good deals are as long as they last. No two deals are directly comparable. My suggestion to you would be 1) Either you pick up a newer year vehicle by paying some extra money OR 2) Go for an older vehicle within your comfortable budget but make sure it is well maintained.

Either way, I think pre-owned Fortuner or a new V-Cross both make sense to me. Pajero Sport, may be yes, if you are too tight on your budget to go for Fortuner. Good luck in your vehicle hunt, looking forward to see you buy your dream vehicle soon.

thanks for your valuable words, already checking some used Fortuner. I have PM'ed you, can we talk please, thanks.

[Ace F355]

Past long weekend, I was visiting Delhi and we decided to make a short hop to nearby sand dunes of Bikaner in Rajasthan. It was a 3 day trip where the idea was to explore off-roading sites within 500 kms of radius of Delhi, options were to choose between lower Himalayan mountains in Himachal or Rajasthani sand dunes. We picked a few spots near Bikaner, because while mountains will remain accessible to us all summer, but now that we are in April, it would have been near impossible to visit Rajasthan for dune bashing till next Nov-Dec.

4 cars were part of the group this time.

- Your's truly in Atlantis
- .anshuman in his Isuzu V Cross
- nkapoor777 in his Pajero Sport
- A friend, Pranav in his new gen Fortuner 4x4 MT

We met a nice gentleman in the same resort where we were staying in Bikaner, he offered to join in his new Ford Endeavour 3.2, so some American ponies came to play with our Japanese horses as well.

All in all, excellent trip and we had a lot of fun dune bashing and conquering some sandy trails.

An update on ARB AirLockers: BHPian nkapoor777 and another friend, Manish, has got ARB airlockers installed in rear diff of their Pajero Sport and old gen Ford Endeavour respectively. Adding the rear locking differntial has had dramatic effect on the off-road capabilities of these vehicles. We have had ARB airlockers in our wishlist for long enough, only challenge was to find a worthy installer and after-sale support in Delhi NCR. While Air90 (official ARB dealer in North India) helped us source the required parts, for installation, Classic Service Point came to our rescue, of course for further help Air90 sent their technician to overlook the installation. The boys at Classic are incredibly talented and with help of detailed installation pictorial guide which comes with ARB airlockers, they managed to complete the complex installation of airlockers in both vehicles in less than a week! Classic Noida is known to be an excellent workshop and this installation has boosted our confidence on these guys even further. Here is the related thread from TBHP Directory.

Thread

I & .anshuman are next in line with get our vehicles equipped with ARB airlockers. Hopefully, should happen soon enough. Like I mentioned earlier, I am temporarily based out of Mumbai now, and as soon as I am back to Delhi, Atlantis will get a pair of airlockers for sure. With selectable lockers added, I think my car doesn't require anything else in terms of modifications. Yeah there are things like awning, roof-rack, add-on fuel tank etc, however with my usage, I have never felt the real need of these, even during extensive long-distance travel that we have been doing. Awning is something which can be considered though, especially for our summer off-road days in Aravalis.

Impressions of New Gen Fortuner: This was the first time I got to drive the new gen Fortuner off-road and I felt connected to it immediately. Like a natural extension of Atlantis. A-Trac (Active Traction System) in new Fortuner is much better tuned compared to new gen Endeavour and helps the car immensely in some off-road situations. In sand however, one would like to switch off all electronic aid available and thankfully it is super simple in new Fortuner. New Fortuner 4x4 MT is quite simply a better version of Atlantis and I would pick it up blindfolded when the upgrade time comes for me (although it might be tough to find it in pre-owned market). That being said, I continue to believe new Endeavour is a better car overall, a worthy competitor and a much better VFM product. I am sure when the right time comes for me to upgrade, I am going to face quite an dilemma to pick up successor of Atlantis.

Pajero Sport on the other hand, suffers very badly from poor low end torque. A lot of times off-road, the Mitsubishi tends to bog down due to the same reason. Mid-range is strong no doubt, but during off-road low end grunt is the name of the game, and this is where Toyota Fortuner excels. 3.0 D-4D anyway was the king of low end grunt, even the new 2.8 engine appears to be very good. When you need to put down power, turn the TC off altogether, put the car in Power Mode for sharper throttle response and new Fortuner becomes as brute as old gen! Way to go Toyota, Kudos. New Endeavour can also be made to do the same but the process is far more complicated and take bit of time.

Oh and BTW, past week Atlantis also completed 2 years under my ownership. Even with 210k kms on the odometer and that too, most of it being grueling off-road usage, he is in ship shape and makes me feel happy everytime I take him out for a drive. I will have to hand it to Toyota service network and support to help me keep the car as good as new. I am sure there are more milestones yet to be reached and many more awesome places yet to be discovered.

Time for some pics... please enjoy below.

Early morning arrival at nearby Dunes... first thing is to deflate the tires. 18 PSI a good starting point. Team deflating their tires and preparing for dune bashing...






.anshuman preparing some quick breakfast for us on trails. This is around 10 AM. Finding the shade can be a challenge. We searched for shade even if we took a 5 mins break, it was that hot during the days.


Summer days can be brutal in Rajasthan, especially in sandy sections. Even though this was end March, the sand temperatures during daytime were soaring like crazy! Below is what we battled at its peak.


nkapoor777's Pajero Sport, proudly wearing the ARB AirLocker sticker. Locking differential has made a huge difference in Pajero's performance in our local off-road sessions where cross-axle ruts become tough to deal with open diffs.


Recovering the new Fortuner on Day 1, the car was not deflated and Pranav got stuck because he wasn't carrying enough momentum to ride across. Once again, this proved the importance of appropriate tire pressures during off-road. All that electronic gadgetry was unable to recover it and we had to deploy DMax to take it out.


Very similar situation as above with Atlantis below. It was only a few sections of sandy trails and I felt lazy to deflate. Result, got stuck on the exit of the trail and had to be snatch strap recovered.


Relaxing on the soft sands and discussing our next obstacle.










Atlantis flexing its muscles on a sandy trail.


Some Pics of the Old Brute and new gen Fortuner. I honestly believe the looks of the new one have gone too soft and dashboard height is too high for my taste. But for everything else, can't find faults with any of these trucks.

[Ace F355]

Just for kicks...

Posting a video from my past visit to Delhi. My first time on the Pajero Sport with ARB locker engaged. Didn't go well.

Pajero's flat spot in power delivery made it worse. Low end power delivery in Pajero Sport is awful and for me, this is the worst thing about Pajero Sport during off-road. It is a nice vehicle overall but man Fortuner triumphs it in offroad conditions like anything.

Just to add a few more details, I went through this particular obstacle in Atlantis first attempt no problems. With Pajero, after all those unsuccessful attempts, I turned off rear ARB differential lock because I had to put down power in to bring it up; completed the obstacle with open diff setup because locked front or rear differential and high speeds do not go very well together and put unwanted stress on axles and other components. The trick in this case was to muscle my way through the ruts and that's what I had to do in the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slu_0LSrcPo

Enjoy the video... Like I said, intention of video was to have some fun... we sure did!

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by Ace F355

Just for kicks...

Pajero's flat spot in power delivery made it worse. Low end power delivery in Pajero Sport is awful and for me, this is the worst thing about Pajero Sport during off-road. It is a nice vehicle overall but man Fortuner triumphs it in offroad conditions like anything.

Just to add a few more details, I went through this particular obstacle in Atlantis first attempt no problems. With Pajero, after all those unsuccessful attempts, I turned off rear ARB differential lock because I had to put down power in to bring it up; completed the obstacle with open diff setup because locked front or rear differential and high speeds do not go very well together and put unwanted stress on axles and other components. The trick in this case was to muscle my way through the ruts and that's what I had to do in the end.
Enjoy the video... Like I said, intention of video was to have some fun... we sure did!

Blah blah blah blah!
It's been said in certain circles that a change of weather hasn't gone down well with your skill-set off the road, and that you're looking for playing the blame game.

But, as you said, the intention was to have some fun.

[vibhavraghav]

A good comparison of the abilities of these beasts These are the most rugged suvs commonly available today and your group is doing justice to their abilities. Would appreciate further comparison of Vcross's abilities as well. It's the one which is well priced and that leaves one with a spare cash to invest in further upgrading it's abilities. How does it perform compared to old gen Fortuner, new gen Fort, Endeavour and Pajero Sport. How is it's performance with and without difflocks especially when compared to others. I'm shooting questions here, just bear with another one. How does new gen Fortuner perform in comparison to old gen Fortuner given that the new Fortuner doesnt have a full time AWD and are diff locks available for new one as well, front and rear. Thank you