[jaysmokesleaves]

This morning saw me drive through the early showers of the upcoming monsoon. I switched on the wiper. One blade moved and the other did not. So i drove straight to the TASS. It was observed that the screw that holds the wiper blade was loose and the wiper was turning and the threads on the unit to the wiper arm had become flattish.
So, they replaced the whole wiper assembly under warranty. I was told that they could have just replaced the wiper arm spindle which had lost its thread, but since the vehicle is under warranty, there should be no reason for the customer to complain, hence the full replacement. I dont know of any other manufacturer that would be so magnanimous. You would have to leave your car there for atleast a day to get it fixed. I was back in 75 minutes.

@BHP1 > Maruti might have better track record w.r.t reliability. However, too many people I know 'live' with the fact that their car rattles. They also live with the fact that they 'do not' get parts replacement like Tata gives. They also make multiple trips to the MASS to re-rectify the old problem. However, they are less vocal.

Yet, Tata has a long way to go. They need to improve at the factory level. Service support is overworked probably because of poor QC and/or lack of competence. Customer support until now has been beyond par.
Tata has recently launched a new 24x7 roadside assistance. Costs Rs.500+tax / year. You get 6 calls anytime anywhere in India. I was told that they will attend even if it is a puncture or a major breakdown. Free towing upto 15kms. Yet to read through the brochure. They have a toll free number. Looks and sounds impressive for the cost.

[bhp1]

Originally Posted by amitk26

buying parts for Maruti any way i am not sure why you should consider that Dezire thing as something related to reliability in general rather then what one goes through if things go wrong in freak case.

Freak case!! That can happen anywhere! We generally take into consideration the general/overall picture & not rely on freak cases!

Also, take into account the shear no. of Maruti's sold & take a ratio/average viv Tata vs Maruti, things would become more clearer to you.

Its a no contest/brainer, Marutis are far more reliable than Tata's(period).


@Jay, a comparison between problems faced with Tata & Maruti will heavily tilt in favour of Tata, rattles & minor things stand nowhere in front of the ordeal Tata customers face. To quote an instance, I have ~15yrs old 800 with me, driven ~1.5L kM & its never left me stranded in the middle of the road or spent extra time in A.S.S or faced parts problem.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by bhp1

@Jay, a comparison between problems faced with Tata & Maruti will heavily tilt in favour of Tata, rattles & minor things stand nowhere in front of the ordeal Tata customers face. To quote an instance, I have ~15yrs old 800 with me, driven ~1.5L kM & its never left me stranded in the middle of the road or spent extra time in A.S.S or faced parts problem.

Your 15 years old M800 does not have an ECU and is much simpler engine
A fairer comparison will be Swift Diesel because the engine is much more complex and also the A.S.S guys gave much less experience with new tools and technology.

Just check few threads on what M.A.S.S does when service light indications appear in Swift you will get the drift.

There are hundreds of Sumos running around for nearly same period as your M800 and accumulating lakhs of KM under harsher conditions but same reliability is not translated to newer engines mainly on part of in-experience of A.S.S in dealing with issues

[tanwaramit]

Guys , is this a bashing thread for tata vs maruti? both are good and both have their set of problems.

Let us concentrate here on the ownership report of Jay and not make it a fighting area for tatas n suzukis. Let the company owners do that , wow that would be interesting, media will cover that as well for sure. OT

Jay, When are you going for your next reclaiming life session ? High time we see some pics on your this thread and updates, also your truck is above 30k and no more 28k as the thread title suggests. Guess time to change.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by tanwaramit

Jay, When are you going for your next reclaiming life session ? High time we see some pics on your this thread and updates, also your truck is above 30k and no more 28k as the thread title suggests. Guess time to change.

Hah.. I just reclaimed a new wiper assembly today.
Anyways, I have lots of trips lined up... totalling another 35k+ kms to be completed by Feb2010. Will post as and when they happen.

[sats]

Hey Jay, really appreciate the cool head towards all the issues faced in your truck which has finally paid good dividends in half your engine being replaced. But the time lost is something we need to live with I guess.

All in all a great report, keep tripping...

[bhp1]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Your 15 years old M800 does not have an ECU and is much simpler engine
A fairer comparison will be Swift Diesel because the engine is much more complex and also the A.S.S guys gave much less experience with new tools and technology.

Just check few threads on what M.A.S.S does when service light indications appear in Swift you will get the drift.

There are hundreds of Sumos running around for nearly same period as your M800 and accumulating lakhs of KM under harsher conditions but same reliability is not translated to newer engines mainly on part of in-experience of A.S.S in dealing with issues

A 15 yrs old Maruti was quoted to show the level of backup prevalant since then & the standards, technology has only improved since then.


So you want to bash the World acclaimed DDIS Multi Jet engine & pit it against Safaris!! Im out of words what a lame comparison!

Just a few egs. do not translate into a generic defect, do you consider here the massive no. of sales this engine has translated into! Every vehicle has its own set of issues, but the problems/issues with Maruti in terms of reliability/a.s.s, parts are far-far less compared to Tata. I guess you are out of tune with the times!

Going by your logic, why don't people buy old Sumos, they are on sale still, because they have worthy/superior alternatives they were always in search of.

I wish some mod or some body at the helm instill some sanity, pitting Maruti against Tata for such issues is completely insane!

[phamilyman]

AmitK26,

Sorry but your comparison is incorrect. Accidental problems and problems due to jammed injectors and en masse engine part replacement cannot be compared.

I am not here for a war, or to poke into people's egos. I am just stating that I am aghast at the amount of change, given my (touchwood) trouble free 17000km so far.

[Red Liner]

I guess we should all start smoking leaves...no wonder jay is so at peace...

[Takumi-san]

I cant understand why would someone compare a Safari with a Dzire ? These are not even in the same league. A person who wants a Dzire is one who wants something completely different from one who wants a Safari. The gentleman who claims to be happier with his Maruti purchase is comparing Apples with Oranges. There is no comparison.

Having said that, while I am sad to hear about all the problems - its amazing how well Tata treats their customers. If I wanted to buy a SUV merely for the occasional outing or weekend getaway , I would definitely go for a Safari.

I am desperately hoping that Tata comes up with a newer Safari (and that does not mean a mere face change) by 2010. Its high time that the Safari got one , and theres loads of customers who would love to reclaim their life.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

AmitK26,

Sorry but your comparison is incorrect. Accidental problems and problems due to jammed injectors and en masse engine part replacement cannot be compared.

I am not here for a war, or to poke into people's egos. I am just stating that I am aghast at the amount of change, given my (touchwood) trouble free 17000km so far.

Well broken Cam shaft on oil leak points to something else please go through that thread in detail to understand the issue

Any way

Originally Posted by Takumi-san

I cant understand why would someone compare a Safari with a Dzire ? These are not even in the same league. A person who wants a Dzire is one who wants something completely different from one who wants a Safari. The gentleman who claims to be happier with his Maruti purchase is comparing Apples with Oranges. There is no comparison.

There was no comparison involved , The point was can some one be at peace with another Diesel in India totally any way the surprising fact is that in 2 Safaris ( TSK and Jays ) the service light appearance results in replacing several parts while there is no apparant problem in driving the vehicles where as in some other Diesel engines resolution is erasing the ECU code so ..

[bhp1]

Originally Posted by bhp1

Maruti is far ahead/better than Tata in terms of reliability, after sales service, availability of spares, etc, etc. lets compare apples to apples!

Originally Posted by Takumi-san

The gentleman who claims to be happier with his Maruti purchase is comparing Apples with Oranges. There is no comparison.

Having said that, while I am sad to hear about all the problems - its amazing how well Tata treats their customers. If I wanted to buy a SUV merely for the occasional outing or weekend getaway , I would definitely go for a Safari.

I wish you would have read my above post, all my concern started because of an irrelevant comparison.

"Its amazing", what's amazing, that Tata customers face numerous problems!

Also, I guess you have mentioned Melbourne as the place you belong to, is Safari available there? If yes, would you choose/buy Safari out of the available choice? If yes, Im sincerely out of words!

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by bhp1

....
If yes, Im sincerely out of words!

Isn't there a word for it - Tom Lehrer even had a song about it - The Masochism Tango?!

[jaysmokesleaves]

Guys, it is a fact that we are starved of reasonable choice in the 4x4 suv segment. Having said that we also know that TML has long miles to go to rectify its QC.
There isnt any point debating that. Each one of us has a point of view and each one to himself and goodluck to him or her for that.

Having said that I will appreciate if the discussion on this thread is not converted to a product debate. Im sure it will help the reader if we stick to the topic rather than him/her having to read through many pages of debates included.

Thanks everyone and I appreciate and look forward to your contributions. Any views, guidance, ideas, suggestions regarding the LTOR and the Safari are welcome.

Cheers
J

[jaysmokesleaves]

I think its time to update this thread with a fresh report.

31st March 2010; My Safari completed 2 years of service with me. Its around 43600kms as of now.


About my Safari ownership:
To repeat again, my primary purpose of buying the Safari was for touring India.
As such, in 2 years my Safari has spent over 80% of its time on roads outside the city.
Make note, this is my only vehicle in India which I use for touring, travel and recreation(which includes offroading).

I always believe that a vehicle is designed with a purpose and if it fits that purpose it ought to be treated accordingly. So my Safari is driven like it should be driven. I make full use of all the horses in the engine, the suspension travel, the 4x4 gearbox, the articulation, the offroad ability, the creature comforts, etc.

Extra fittings include:
2 Hella focus lights.
Reverse camera.
Sparco mudflaps.
seat covers & steering wheel cover.
Multiple floor mats.

Everything else in the vehicle is stock spec. Apart from the issues mentioned and solved earlier, my Safari has given me no other problems till date.

The Safari after 2 years:
The vehicle is given no special treatment other than:
Oil change every 7500kms.
Routine service done outside the TASS includes a full diesel wash of the underbody followed by a spray coat of used engine oil. This is to keep the underbody rust free.

Routine vaccuming of interiors and interior treatment is a DIY policy after every long trip.

Current condition:
Great. No noise or squeaks from any body panels.
No squeaks from any mechanical components inspite of numerous OTR sessions and OTR tours.
My brother arrived from Dubai to join me for a Coastal Gujarat trip including the Great Rann of Kutch. According to him, the engine is smother than 'makkhan'(butter). And it is indeed. Its as smooth if not smoother than my 4 liter V6 Prado(petrol) that I drive in the middle east.
I have not had to top up any fluids till date(including coolant).
I shall be replacing all fluids at the 45k service next month.

The 4x4 Gearbox:
Simply wonderful. Apart from the numerous OTR's, all my trips and tours including a decent amount of offroad travel. There are never any second thoughts to visit any good location along the highway thanks to 4x4.
Here I would like to add, the Safari in 4x2 form is very very capable, even with the OE Bridgestones. My use of 4x4 is to strictly enable travel where the 4x2 can no longer take me forward. As such, Ive used the 4x4 quite a bit to my hearts content.

The reader might think im raving a bit too much about the 4x4, but that isnt the case. Honestly, on many OTR's the use of 4x4 is quite negligible and I have gotten stuck simply because ive forgotten to engage 4x4 having gotten used to doing tough terrain in 4x2.

The shift on the fly 4H is good fun and works wonderfully... Though I hate the position of the 4x4 switch.

The clutch is still going strong. No slippage and its not hard.

Steering and suspension:
I always found the Safari steering not very precise. But after 2 years its become normal(im used to it now) since i can predict its behaviour.
The suspension has held up very well considering all that it has been through. I had the TASS look at the suspension recently when I had gone for wheel alignment and it seems completely OK. So no complaints yet.

I had some issues with vehicle pulling to the right under braking, but it turned out to be an alignment issue and was solved.

Interiors:
The interiors seem to have held up quite well. nothing has fallen off and nothing has stopped working. The dual ac that does full time duty has never let me down either. I haven't had to use the heater on many occasions but it works whenever I test it.
All the switches, power windows working good.
On that note, ive not had to change any bulbs or fuses either.

Underbody and paint:
There are no signs of rust that I can find. The paint on the body is good. There are scratches here and there due to offroading in the bushes but are barely visible due to the golden brown color. I was told that a good paint treatment polish will take care of them, since they are superficial scratches. So next month my Safari will get paint treatment. The underbody still looks like factory finish due to the oil treatment.

Tires:
The OE Bridgestone HT tires have held up well with all the offroad torture they have been through. But with numerous punctures and cuts and just about 20% tread left, a tire change is coming up shortly.

Problems and negative feedback:
Wheel alignment is a problem because this can only be done at a TASS due to the shims adjustment. This is a big pain since they take the whole day to do it and sometimes after a trial keep the vehicle for another day to correct it.

The outside temp. sensor gives out vague figures like -10* to 49*. and considering the time the TASS takes to fix the alignment ive stopped checking the onboard temp display.

The 4x4 switch is a pain to use since it hides behind the wiper stalk.

The height adjustable drivers seat goes down on its own overnight. I have to rake it back up in the morning.

Positives & praise:
Very good ride comfort.
Excellent 4x4 gearbox.
Good suspension.
Good ac.
Headache free functioning.
Good average fuel consumption; 11 kpl with ac. 9-9.5kpl with ac in 4x4. The mileage could be better with a lighter right foot. Without ac 12.5kpl.

PM's coming up: (Preventive Maintenance)
45k service will have all the mechanical fluids replaced.
New tires.
External Paint treatment.
New wiper blades.

Cost of ownership:
My Safari is now under extended warranty till March 2012.
Until now ive had no additional expenses except for those mentioned earlier and the cost of routine services and non routine voluntary oil changes.

Other than that ive had to replace my front and rear windscreens due to coconut damage and vandalism.

Happiness Quotient:
Satisfaction is not a good word, happiness is. So after 2years am I happy with my Safari ?
Yes I am. It hasnt left me stranded anywhere. Performs flawlessly in hostile terrain under challenging circumstances. Its supremely comfortable. Starts with one twist of the key after being parked for over a month.
Allows me to concentrate on my travel and enjoy my holiday than think about the machine. So yes, im happy.