[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

I'm sorry Anurag, but isn't this a bit of ridiculous advice? Something that will last the life of an engine should be changed as a preventive maintenance measure just because some misinformed members think and write so? Predatorwheelz, his ASS and his FNG are all supposed to be less knowledgeable than Google specialists on Team-BHP?

Sorry SST and Predatorwheelz I guess you are misunderstanding me.

It was just my opinion and not a compulsion. I know they say it lasts the life of the engine but I just said as there is no harm in doing so.

Hyundai and Predatorwheelz are the masters for the machine and it is their choice at the end of the day.

Anurag.

[sagarpadaki]

Anurag, 1.4L,1.5L,1.6L CRDI from hyundai stable all come with timing chain which do not need replacement until you hear funny noises coming from the engine. In fact the manual also there is no mention of timing chain replacement

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Google specialists on Team-BHP?

Thank you for the branding Sir! With all due respect, I might be misinformed because of some wrongly printed material. But I'm sure my enquiry would have helped a lot of misinformed people like me and saved their money!

The fact that you know more about this does not give you any right to generalize or to brand other members forum. In fact, mere mortals like us look up to people like you to learn and arrogance is the last thing we expect in return. Thanks!

[Morph]

For info and not directed anywhere - a timing chain should last for the life of the engine, but the components around the chain may not. The chain runs through a complex path and must be kept in tension to ensure it works properly. Sometimes the chain tensioner can fail earlier than the chain, but the failure of this other component can also lead to chain failure.

I know this as my Audi V6 TDI has the timing chain at the back of the engine (it is inline) and fixing or maintaining it involves removing the whole engine and gearbox, which is not worth doing given the value of the car.

Oh, and Audi fitted a dodgy tensioner for a little while and I don't know if my car has had this replaced or still has the duff one.

Russian Roulette anyone ? I'm playing it day by day.

The only truly reliable camshaft drive is gears but they are expensive and heavy.

[sudeep.pandya]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Lets get a few things straight, little boy. I do not appreciate random comments like the one above. If you followed my thread from the start, you would have seen that the mechanical maintenance on my car verges on fanatic. Good driving practices ensure few things go wrong, and the absolutely essential replacements are done ahead of their time, at the first sign of trouble.

As for the timing chain issue, I have already clarified to the enquirer in my previous post. If I really didn't care, I wouldn't have done an enquiry with HASS now, would I? If you still think ICE is all I care about, come to Delhi and drive Predator (with the stereo off!) to see for yourself.

So please just stick to the topic. Your inputs are welcome, sarcasm is not.

Hmm, I followed your ICE thread and this one since beginning.

Sorry, if you decoded the pun as sarcasm. I did not question your maintenance habits, I know most of the BHP'ans perform maintenance as per manufacturer's advice (Modern vehicles anyway do not demand too much).

Well, thanks for your response (No sarcasm here)

Sign off.

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Metro had in stock an aftermarket set of pads. My rear pads are on 40K kms, and should need changing in another 10-15K. Picked up a set just in case.

Yesterday Predator celebrated its 6th birthday. The 13th service came today.

Little boy 1 ltr Shell HX6 in picture. Not pictured, its bigger brother, the 4L pack.



There was a rattling noise from the front shock (found out it was leaking oil) and the right one felt jittery. So in 6 years, the front shocks were changed the first time. Pictures of spare numbers for reference.







The right rear shock's rubber buffer had been cut. So a new rubber kit for the rear shock as well.



The old and new front shocks in picture. Ignore the shock in the background, belongs to some other car.



In a few months I'll be touching the 6 figure mark. Be prepared for an exhaustive long term review when that happens. And thanks for following this thread.

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

In a few months I'll be touching the 6 figure mark. Be prepared for an exhaustive long term review when that happens. And thanks for following this thread.

To every little boy, there is reality, and there are dreams. Regardless of my petrolhead dreams and research, reality was growing up around (and driving) cars that at best satisfied the needs of their contemporary middle class. A couple of Ambys, A Padmini, a Maruti 800 etc. Elders tried to infuse the belief that gentlemen buy petrol cars. They are refined, speedy (ish) and easy to maintain. Diesels are bought by taxi owners. They are noisy, vibrate as hell, slow and difficult to maintain. Indeed, if one took a ride in a Kolkata Taxi for more than 20 kms, and I took many, the latter belief would have been ingrained in gold.

At 22 I got a bike, a Pulsar 180 DTSi to be precise. It (Purple Haze, I do have a separate thread on it) became my new form of freedom. While cars could get you from point A to point B in comfort, PH could get you there in exhilaration. My favorite trick was to get to the front line at a red signal, twist the throttle, and watch the traffic becoming a speck in my RVM as PH accelerated like a bat out of hell.

So petrols were fast, diesels unrefined, and PH a bat our of hell. Then, 6 years ago, Predator came into my life. It was the hyperbola in my life that turned all the above parabolae into dust. Here was a diesel that smoked (pun intended) most petrol cars, ate highways for breakfast, was not unrefined at all, and could replicate the bat out of hell syndrome at ease! The other cars, and indeed PH, became redundant as my entire time on the road was spent at Predator's wheel.

But this review is not (ok, not only) about what Predator could do when new. It is very much a description of how the ownership experience has been over 1 lakh kms, 6 years and 2 cities of ownership. I will, of course, start by describing the car's features. Anecdotes form part of every detail.

NOTE: Some anecdotes have references to other car makes/models. Please note this is not an effort to demean any car, just my personal experiences taken from real life incidents.



Engine and Transmission - If there was one single reason why I bought the car six years ago, it would have to be the engine. Much has been spoken of the diesel engine's performance and torque. But what does that essentially translate to on the road?

First, flexibility. The engine is a true Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. 90pct of Predator's life has been spent in the urban commute, and the engine's torque spread has ensured less gear-changes and more comfort in longer city drives. A boon when I have to drive 100+kms in a day in Delhi traffic. Still gives me 14 kmpl.

In the 10pct (which is almost 15K kms in distance terms) the engine completely transforms character. All that torque means there's enough power on tap, regardless of whatever speed you're driving at. I've taken the engine to 180 (top speed 185) and its only at 150+ speeds that the reserves begin to strain out. Unlike petrols, CRDI engines don't need to go that high in the rev range as speeds build. A lower revving engine means more comfort over long distances and (comparatively) less fuel consumption. As an example, I did Delhi - Varanasi in 9.5 hrs with 2 stops. An average speed of almost 100 kmph and still got FE of 18 kmpl. Try getting that combo with a powerful petrol.

Second, reliability. Horror stories abound of the Verna's turbo failure. But I've religiously followed the 1 minute start-stop routine till date, and the engine has given me no trouble whatsoever. In fact, now in the 6 year old package its the engine which feels the freshest, eager to go as ever.

The clutch has held up well with all my power demands and crossed 1 lakh kms without any part change. It has become stiffer than before. You can feel the strain in Gurgaon office traffic, my everyday commute. In a recent Mukteshwar trip with 4 people, I could also feel the car losing power on steep inclines. No strain on highways. Time for a clutch change nevertheless.

Third, refinement. I find Hyundai diesels much quieter than VW and Honda diesels which my friend's own. Recently a friend who owns a i20 Diesel took a long drive with me. He was of the opinion that the engine in my car sounds quieter than his i20.



Exterior Build Quality - I've always hated the old Verna's design. The only thing I feel gives Predator a dash of style are the Alloys, otherwise its just a roundish saloon with no style.

But styling is just eye-candy. When you live with it, what you start appreciating is the build quality. And let me stick my neck out and say this. Not just Hyundai, but the Indian car industry in general doesn't make sub-10 lakh cars like this anymore.

Let's start with the edges, the bumpers. These are fat behemoths of the era when the sub-4 metre rule didn't exist, and stick out well outside the body line. Some anecdotes:

1. Once in Kolkata I made a gross mis-judgement and backed up straight into a parked Renault Logan's rear door. Plastic (corner of the rear bumper) met Metal with a sickening noise. The impact was hard enough to crack the sheet metal right down to the subframe. Guess what happened to the bumper? The edge crumpled in and got discolored. It didn't come off, nothing in the body got damaged. My mechanic later punched the edge out and applied some touch up paint.

2. Another time in Delhi I was driving back from office in pouring rain. The idiot ahead of me braked hard without warning. While I stopped, a Honda City behind me couldn't apply brakes in time and rammed into my car. A 50 kmph impact that left his front grill broken and bumper hanging. My rear bumper did come off and had a nasty dent. Again the mechanic punched it (most of the dent) out and fitted the bumper screws. This time the discoloration was too big to cover.

Imagine having either of the above accidents with a Mahindra Quanto rear bumper.



You can see the discoloration from the last impact, as well as scratches from multiple minor shunts.



3. The front bumper has not been so lucky. It has been changed twice thanks to major shunts. But who knows how many minor shunts it has taken. The last one was with an LPG transporter's rear bull bar, that tore a portion of it. Still it didn't come off, though the scratches (and the tear) are prominently visible.



The sheet metal is excellent. Though (Thank God!) I've not had the chance to test their durability in an accident, the quality of the metal can be verified merely from the sense of insulation it provides, and that its given me no problems in all these years.

Last year I was at Motor Concepts getting my ICE done. A fellow ICE enthusiast came along in his Maruti Swift. Over some tea, he told me "Great that you're getting your car damped with good material. The day I damped my car and went home, I could sense that the external noise inside the cabin had reduced. My car felt like a Mercedes, all hushed up and insulated". I was overjoyed. Even more insulation?

That evening on my way home, I deliberately tried to sense the insulation by switching off the stereo. Trust me, there was NO difference! Disappointed, I told Aman the next day, and he laughed. "Sir, the Old Verna is already such good sheet metal, that damping doesn't make any difference to insulation. For your car damping is required only to control the speaker output."

The paint quality is not that great. My friend owns a 2006 Honda City. When the 2 cars are parked side by side, you can clearly see the difference. In his older car, the top coat literally shines. Of course, I've done Predator no favors in terms of shaded parking. In Kolkata my house had covered parking. In Delhi both my office and house have outside parking. But so does my friend.

The other deterrent is the huge amount of scratches, from stones flying up on Indian highways. Take a look at the right side door profile.

The small scratches are from flying stones. The larger one is probably a jealous pedestrian with a sharp object!



Its not difficult to surmise that Predator needs a repaint.



Not all of a car's dusty bits are metal. Some of those exterior bits are plastic. And these bits typically come off before the metal does.

It is evident much thought went into designing the old Verna's plastic bits. The wheel wells have full cladding. The plastic quality is good. In all this time it has neither rotted nor come off. See the fit at the edges.



Recently a friend bought a 2014 Honda City VX, and brought it to me to show off. After all the gizmos were demonstrated, I cheekily pointed out that his wheel wells came with partial (front) and no (rear) cladding. "Lets see how worried you are after the first monsoon, when all the mud gets thrown up into the body!". Then I pointed out his boot lid, and said "Doesn't the exposed metal look ugly. See my car, its almost like a carpet". Needless to say, his wife wasn't very pleased. She gave her husband a class on why he couldn't get them "checked" at the dealer.

While I don't have a pic of the boot cladding, here's one of the engine bay cladding. In 6 years the thing has not come off/burnt in the least. I compare this to our Indica boot cladding, which looked like it had survived an inferno!



Interior Build Quality

Almost every Verna owner has had this experience. Once in a while, a rattling sound develops which bugs the hell out of him! Is it the suspension? Is it the engine mounting? Could it be the body coming off?

Then he takes the car to HASS, who open up the dashboard or one door, tighten a screw inside and everything comes back to silent.

Thankfully that once comes only in many years. The quality of the interior plastics is truly excellent, and periodic cleaning has ensured they stay that way.

Here are 2 pics. The first was taken 2 months after buying the car. The second is taken last Saturday.





As you can see, except the steering wheel cover (Stanley Progrip original leather) which has worn out and tattered off at the stitches, the console looks as fresh as new.

Most TD reports of modern cars have this line "The interiors feel plush, though cheap plastics from the XXX model lower down the line can be seen". Or it says "The cheap finish at the edges give the game away". Predator's interior hardly has any cheap plastics. Its good durable stuff that maintained its fit and finish all through. In fact recently I drove a 2006 Sonata Embera, and was surprised to see that car had so many parts (entire climate control system, stalks, some switches) common with my Verna.

Take a look at the quality of the interior moulding, particularly at the edges.





Or the fit at the joint of the glovebox and floor console. In my friends 2006 city the floor console frequently comes off. (You can also see the Rainbow Soundline speakers inside the door housings, heh heh).



The only signs of wear are at the door handles, which have fingernail scratches from years of tugging.

The driver side Door handle, showing the most wear.



Followed by the front passenger side



Noticeably less in the rear door handles.



While at it, note how the door plastics have maintained their color and grain.



Months after buying I invested in a set of custom-fit G-Sport art leather seats. A wise investment, as they have retained their fit and finish so well.



Though the driver seat shows strong signs of wear-n-tear after years of friction with my bum!



Suspension and brakes - The cycle parts

With the suspension I have no complaints. The Verna came with excellent ride from the first day, and maintains the same till date. The front ball joints were changed at 68K kms, and the front shocks recently at 97K kms. Rear shocks are still the factory-fitted ones. One axle bearing developed a problem and was changed at 78K kms. The right front wheel hub also was changed at the same time.

Most purists find the Verna a laggard handler. I beg to differ. While Hyundais generally have unsorted handling, the old Verna handles way better than the Fluidic Verna (which felt vague to me) and the old i20 (which I felt handled as sharply as a cloud). My friends know my "scruff of the neck" driving style very well, and I wouldn't push Predator so much if I wasn't sure of its abilities.

Braking performance is excellent, more so due to the rear disc and ABS setup which I opted for. Many close shaves on the highway, averted due to the excellent brakes.

But I don't like their durability. In most cars, brake pads easily last till 40K kms. In mine the first set lasted 26K kms, the second 17K, the third 35K. The 4th set is on 22K kms, and my fingers are firmly crossed. The front discs have needed change once. The rear brake pads are much better in this regard, each lasting about 45K on an average.

Electronics

Well the car has had its share of niggles. The lighter socket famously fused off at 59K kms. Both driving lights went kaput on separate occasions and were replaced. One foglamp was replaced due to an accident, the other just fused off. A few months back the headlight switch assembly went bonkers, doing crazy things like turning on the headlights at full off. It was replaced. The first battery (Exide Freedom) lasted me a good 5 years. The new one (Exide Matrix) is doing a good job.

But 2 critical things. First, none of these niggles, in isolation, were bad enough to leave me stranded. Second, Hyundai original electronics actually don't cost much. So I just take it as part of the game of owning an old car.

Notes on the current condition

1. In everyday driving, there is a funny, very low whistling noise which I detected coming from the AC blower. Goes off when I switch off the AC fan. I have no idea what is causing this, will have to get the AC checked before next summer.

2. A freak accident in the hands of the parking lot attendant led to the left ORVM cowl cracking and falling off. While the assembly works perfectly (its been almost a year) the ORVM looks ugly viewed from the left without the cowl. I've not been able to source a replacement plastic cowl. Everybody just sells the complete assembly!

3. The MRF ZLOs are on 27K kms. Though I praise them for being silent, grippy and comfortable, I doubt these will run till 40K going by the current condition of tread. You can catch a glimpse of the tyres in some of the pics above.


Total Cost of Ownership - Some hard numbers



It wasn't an easy task getting 6 years of ownership costs together. But after doing the exercise, the numbers did throw up some interesting inferences:

1. The annual average cost of ownership is about INR 26K.

2. Cost of tyres and battery alone account for INR 38K, which is 24pct of the total cost of ownership.

3. Before switching over to FNG, I have paid INR 33684 as labour charges to HASS, which is an insane 21pct of total cost of ownership! This should be a lesson for prospective Hyundai owners. Though I doubt anyone (including me) would want to get their Hyundai serviced outside while the car is under warranty!

4. The cost of ICE has not been included, for obvious reasons!

Overall, Predator remains a fast, economical and reliable means of transport. It will hold pride-of-place in my heart as the first car bought with my hard-earned money, and at this stage I'm not thinking of selling it! May the reliability and the love story continue!

Before we part, here's a pointless pic of the car getting a wash the day after achieving the 1L milestone.



And for the number-crunchers, another pointless estimate of the annual mileages done with the car.

[Samba]

Loved reading the post on Predators reaching the magical figure. The car has served you really really well.

Adding the service cost from the beginning till date is the icing on the cake. You have done a great job compiling the whole ownership record with each and every details. Kudos to you for this effort. Rated 5 * to the thread as well.

I have been a co-passenger in your car 6 months back at Delhi and that time the odometer was around 90,000kms if i can remember correctly. I loved the acceleration of predator. In no time it hits the triple digit speed. Plus on bad roads it was rattle free too.

Now as the car has already served you so well i have three suggestion's for you-
1) Get the steering cover changed ASAP! Its looking like an eye sore!
2) Get the scratches repainted and get a detailed interior cleaning job done!
3) If required change the clutch plate. As i know the way your car pulls and am sure you are addictive to it too! So who wants to miss that fun!

With these minor works done, shinny black Predator at 100,000kms can give many new cars a run for its money! Be it the looks or out right acceleration!

Wish you many more happy miles...!

[cityvic]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

To every little boy, there is reality, and there are dreams.

A superb and really well detailed 1L review post.
Typical predatorwheelz and his wit.

The 1L tag is something, which all the cars at our home clock before being replaced.
And must tell you, your Verna has done that really well. Good decision of not wanting to sell it off both now and earlier. I still remember how you were contemplating on selling it off before moving to Delhi and getting low ballers from over-smart kids of my age.

Having seen your car and knowing you very well personally over the last 4-5 years, all I can say is that you know better how both him and me have grown up over the last few years. I guess your car has seen it all from bumper to bumper Dalhousie traffic, Dilli roads and top notch highways.

A Big Congratulations on the i20, just read your post in another thread.
When is the delivery of the same expected? Also will you transferring the ICE or getting new ICE or leaving it as it is stock?

Would suggest you to get the following done for sure since you are planning to keep the car.
- A good repaint
- Interior detailing
- New seatcovers if required
- A good set of number plates
- Mechanicals, I have hardly any knowledge, so would leave that on you.

I guess with the above done, the car would be perfect to serve you for a few more years.

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by Samba

Loved reading the post on Predators reaching the magical figure. The car has served you really really well.

Adding the service cost from the beginning till date is the icing on the cake. You have done a great job compiling the whole ownership record with each and every details. Kudos to you for this effort. Rated 5 * to the thread as well.

Thanks Samba. Yes the car has served me really well. As we discussed yesterday, the reliability is the icing on the love affair.

As for the ownership record, look at it as a long term investment. It may become an investigation tool for prospective buyers, if and when I change my mind .

Originally Posted by Samba

Now as the car has already served you so well i have three suggestion's for you-
1) Get the steering cover changed ASAP! Its looking like an eye sore!
2) Get the scratches repainted and get a detailed interior cleaning job done!
3) If required change the clutch plate. As i know the way your car pulls and am sure you are addictive to it too! So who wants to miss that fun!

With these minor works done, shinny black Predator at 100,000kms can give many new cars a run for its money! Be it the looks or out right acceleration!

Yes, items 1 and 3 are to be done within a month. 2 will take some time, as I'm planning to give it a good paintjob (done by someone with a paintbooth) and that needs budgeting.

Originally Posted by cityvic

A superb and really well detailed 1L review post.
Typical predatorwheelz and his wit.

The 1L tag is something, which all the cars at our home clock before being replaced.
And must tell you, your Verna has done that really well. Good decision of not wanting to sell it off both now and earlier. I still remember how you were contemplating on selling it off before moving to Delhi and getting low ballers from over-smart kids of my age.

Thank you brother. Yes, that was a dark hour when I contemplated selling it off. Thankfully the kid was over-smart and our deal didn't get through.

You can still see the stickers you gave me .

Originally Posted by cityvic

Having seen your car and knowing you very well personally over the last 4-5 years, all I can say is that you know better how both him and me have grown up over the last few years. I guess your car has seen it all from bumper to bumper Dalhousie traffic, Dilli roads and top notch highways.

The car has seen bumper to bumper Gurgaon traffic as well, which is much worse than Dalhousie traffic! Its also seen highways across 8 states!

As for you (and this is heartfelt), I marvel at how matured you've become, both as a person and a tbhpian. Your reputation for helping out other petrolheads with logistics is well known. I will eagerly wait the day you earn the "D" tag, brother.

Originally Posted by cityvic

A Big Congratulations on the i20, just read your post in another thread.
When is the delivery of the same expected? Also will you transferring the ICE or getting new ICE or leaving it as it is stock?

Thank you. I'm in fact taking delivery today. Had to trade off my choice of color (Pristine Blue) with Silver, to get an early delivery. Basically a silver car booked a month before me reached the dealer, but the customer cancelled the booking.

As for ICE, the i20 Asta comes with an "8 speaker" system, which is basically 4 speakers and 4 tweeters. Right now I'm not changing anything as I find the sound quality adequate. Moreover, I don't plan to touch Predator's ICE as long as the car stays with me.

Originally Posted by cityvic

Would suggest you to get the following done for sure since you are planning to keep the car.
- A good repaint
- Interior detailing
- New seatcovers if required
- A good set of number plates
- Mechanicals, I have hardly any knowledge, so would leave that on you.

I guess with the above done, the car would be perfect to serve you for a few more years.

As I told Samba, the repaint will have to wait a few months. Interior detailing is getting done next week itself.

Seat covers, probably not. As you saw in the pics, except the driver's seat the other 3 look new, retaining excellent fit and finish. Why waste money on changing them when I'm keeping the car for now?

Number plates, yes. I have high regard for the plates Utsav is making, and will probably call him soon enough for a HSRP replica set.

Mechanicals, nothing planned. Let the car run stock for as long as its worth.

[cityvic]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Thank you brother.
You can still see the stickers you gave me .

Yup, they have held on pretty well.

As for you (and this is heartfelt), I marvel at how matured you've become, both as a person and a tbhpian. Your reputation for helping out other petrolheads with logistics is well known. I will eagerly wait the day you earn the "D" tag, brother.

Thank you so much.
It would be more of a honor for me.

Thank you. I'm in fact taking delivery today. Had to trade off my choice of color (Pristine Blue) with Silver, to get an early delivery.

Excellent choice.
The silver will definitely age better than the Blue.
Silver cars look brilliant after several years of use whereas these fancy blue shades, etc loose their charm after sometime. Again a personal opinion.
Awaiting for some pictures too.

Number plates, yes. I have high regard for the plates Utsav is making, and will probably call him soon enough for a HSRP replica set.

Get a custom plate Korea style made for yourself, I suggest.

[Wanderers]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

To every little boy, there is reality, and there are dreams.

Hi Predator,

Congrats on achieving the 100,000 milestone.
Your Verna is truly adorable. I like black beauties
After watching all the photograph, I would once again say that Koreans have consistently proven all of us wrong right from the day we saw the launch of Santro in 1999.

The quality & finish is top class and long lasting one too. Having owned & driven both Hyundai and Honda, I would definitely say that Interior material quality is best in Hyundai.

I never achieved such Odometer figures, I guess it demands a celebration. Where is the party ?

[i74js]

Hi,

Need some advise, I am still struggling with the ICE as I could not get a flush fit through open market purchase and it looks odd, though serving me well for past so many years.

I am looking at Sony XSP-N1BT, what is your take, will it look good in Verna?

Cheers

[kpzen]

PW

That's an exhaustive 1 lac kms report.
Keep it going. My friend recently sold his Verna at 196000 kms.
Only problem - Rust eating up the body. CRDi mill was still punchy as ever.

Just noticed, you are around Gurgaon, we can catch up sometime.

[rattanw]

Excellent report predatorwheelz. I always considered older Verna to be better looking than the fluidic design, but that's just me. Its nice that you focussed on the parts quality, both exterior and interior finish, attention to detail and other softer aspects - all of these areas have been compromised in the newer models of Verna as well as other sedans. The sticky points about new city are well known. Same is the case with many other cars. Almost every manufacturer seems to be giving in to the economic forces, though I wonder if they are strictly 'economic'. I wonder what is this new found obsession with cost cutting - though the concept is noble, yet implementation is horrendous and hideous at the same time. I mean, its like there is a perfect negative correlation between price and quality, with prices going north and quality going south almost everywhere.