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2nd December 2009, 21:19 | #136 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Senior - BHPian | Great to see that this thread is now going on the right track. People are cooling off and thats a great start. I will offer my two bits (uncalled for, but im still offering it being a neutral party and a member of this forum and it pains me when any member gets hurt, here obviously two are, viz; Vidiatech and Viper. I have the opportunity of knowing Viper but every person responds to different people differently, hence i will not say that Viper ir right completely and Vidiatech is wrong completely, lest i be termed as Viper's friend or mouthpiece etc. People who know me from the forum will know i NEVER indulge in side taking purely on friendship or acquaintance. If i wanted to take sides, i would have never commented on this thread. In fact after this i called him today simply to tell him that if he had done the things that Vidaitech claimed, he was in the wrong... i got his reply but will put his replies to the questions as we go further. Quote:
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Firstly its not rocket science to fit headers on any car. I can understand that may be needed for a DIY guy but not for an experienced installer. Re the evidence i spoke to Viper at length. He has gone to say that the same template is lying with him, that he used to get this Corsa's FFE done. He says he is confident enough to say that if anyone is willing to come forward and bear the expenses of manufacturing another piece, he will manufacture the entire headers using the same template and if it mismatches one bit or does not fit he is ready to refund the entire amount to Vidatech. And if it fits what about all the wrong things that according to him have been said in this thread? Anyone wants to answer that? I could say nothing more to him. I think he is being very just and fair. He seems confident enough, will there be someone who is willing? Coming to my Levis example, pray tell me what is so different or out of track? What was that about an obese or size zero Corsa? Have i missed something here because i dont seem to understand or is it that you have not understood my comparison?? I agree with you completely that if made and tested on a Corsa, should fit a Corsa. But then i have seen people who have not been able to fit something as easy as aftermarket filters made for the car or even OE products on a particular car. That cannot be blamed on the product, that is an error in installation and how many persons have you seen admitting that they could not install something or that they missed something leading to a faulty install. The best way is blame the other guy, especially since hes not in your city. Quote:
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Re Paul Barber, read the earlier posts, he was sent a full replacement, after which he never posted that he did and apparently never even returned the earlier so called faulty ones.....great, how convenient, two for the price of one huh? Correct me if im wrong guys but that was written somewhere above. Quote:
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Viper has apologise if Vidaitech thought the product was faulty and has offered to help out and solve the problem if possible. Then how can he be accused of being unprofessional and not wanting to agree, etc etc. I find this most rational. What happened? Monetary compensation only was asked i presume. So now whos unreasonable if one sticks to ones stand? I can read this surely else everyone can. Quote:
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How do i know if the product is faulty or not? In fact how do you know for sure too. The product was tampered before it was fitted and why was it tampered in the first place? SO we have to give Viper the benefit of doubt. How can you pass judgement like that? Yes i know Viper from the forum as do many people, I have a good relation with him as i enjoy with most people on the forum, I may or may not do business with him but whats the point? There are many satisfied Viper customers here too but thats not the point. Its not a Viper against Vidiatech thing here. Dont take it so personally. Im as sorry for Vidiatech for having lost his hard earned money but is that an excuse for stonking someone's reputation? See the title of the thread.... looks like the sensation was created with the title itself. Talk anout the product, why are you getting into his business practices, whether one is right or wrong. And talking about Vidaitech, it does not seem like hes lost faith in the Human race, please dont be melodramatic. Anyone who can suggest a trade of reputation against money is not so innocent, please wake up. Quote:
When Viper made so many calls, why were they not answered, is it that these so called allegations were an afterthought? See..... you dont like this tone right? Neither do i. I never meant it to mean this but only as a way to make you understand what you guys are stressing on. Quote:
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Is he a paraplegic that he cannot take calls? What is the inability involved? That is a ridiculous statement. Well we are getting contradictory signals from you and your friend. HE says he knows a lot of stuff and is a DIY guy and you say he is a first timer. Yes this is a forum where everyone is trying to help the other but one will get little or no help if one will try to malign without proof, another member, whether it is Viper or anyone else. The response will be this strong against wrong propaganda, please note. Please give your friend the advice of handling this issue maturely. It is his immature and brash handling of this whole issue which is blowing out of proportion. Quote:
This is being mature. Realising your mistake, and being bold enough to admit it. If it were done i this manner there would have been no problem from the start. Stop shouting for a monitory compensation, if it were coming it would have been sent to you in the first place. Jignesh WILL respond to you. CALL HIM. Quote:
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Last edited by Rehaan : 4th December 2009 at 03:26. Reason: Quoted information corrected + reply regarding mod activities removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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2nd December 2009, 22:54 | #137 | ||||||||
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
I presume you have not spoken to Viper. Sending back the FFE without speaking to him at first?? Bad move. Even your friends who jumped to your rescue without knowing anything will advice you this.....Why?....What good would it do to send back the whole FFE at the receiver's cost? And why would Viper accept it and pay for it too? But if he did then its a different story. Just a while ago you saw the light and were sounding all up there, now you go and want to send the FFE back at the receiver's cost... Im sorry to say this but you seem to have finally lost it. I feel like a fool for having intervened and tried to resolve the issue, with your fickle attitude, the problem is never going to be resolved. God bless you and hope you dont have another angle in a minute from now. Quote:
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Tried to help but looks like im failing, some times some people are stubborn and problem magnets!! | ||||||||
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3rd December 2009, 00:50 | #138 | ||
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai
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anyway to anyone who is saying that the exhaust is faulty and are adamant on that point, why dont you get proof that viper hasnt tested it on another corsa before sending. or if you think his design is faulty why dont you take up his offer of making another header from that template, you will get your money back since you are so sure the header will not fit a corsa. there is no point arguing about the exhaust being faulty or not anymore since there is neither proof that it is faulty nor is there complete proof that it was perfect but viper seems better off in this perspective since he is saying that he has the templates from which he made the exhaust. vdiatech i hope you call up viper and whether you apologise or not about not answering the calls i am sure you will come to a conclusion. best of luck. | ||
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3rd December 2009, 03:07 | #139 |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai-India
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| Things to learn from this thread, As a Customer 1) Doesn't makes sense to buy customized FFE or any such job from a different city just to save a few thousands bucks.Its just not worth it. 2) Customer should realize that it will be difficult to get any after mod support if any technical problem or fitment issues arise later since vendor is in different city,last he will hear is to send it back, in that case who bears transport cost? 3) It is also possible that things can get damage (crack/bend) during transport from one city to other due to not so good handling of courier company, in that case you cannot blame the supplier so its customer who will suffer, you can claim from courier co. but you never know how long it will take. 4) It becomes easy for a customer if there is any leaks or cracks developed after few months of usage to get it fixed if its done locally. 5) one should not alter/ cut weld without knowledge of vendor if there is some problem fitting the stuff especially if its brand new under warranty, it has to be brought to their notice. No vendor will give you warranty if that piece is altered/cut without his permission. As a Vendor 1) Raise level of standards eg: If i have to buy an exhaust system of an branded company like Skunk2 from U.S for Honda i would not worry , cause these guys have really done their homework so its matter of plug & play & i know it would fit. It takes good amount of R&D and testing to achieve that. I know one thing for sure, Vdiatech would not have started this thread had his exhaust system fitted without any issue. Period 2) Educate customer in advance about time to make a customized job the delay arising due to unwanted circumstances,shipping cost, damage arise if any.warranty policy etc etc 3) For outstation customer, its more of responsibility of vendor to make sure that a customized job is done right at first time taking all technical aspects in to consideration & this requires involvement with your local fabricator. merely assigning job to someone else does not help. 4) Recommending customer for options, eg like ceramic coating,heat wrap etc telling him advantages & its worthiness & let him decide if he wants to pay extra for that. Eventually things go wrong sometime so instead of playing blame game, its necessary to talk to each other & sort out the matter in which both parties have a win win situation. That sums things UP. |
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3rd December 2009, 10:57 | #140 |
Senior - BHPian | Ford_Rocam has summed it up very well. I think we should leave this thread until there is an update from either of them. |
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3rd December 2009, 13:54 | #141 |
Senior - BHPian | i guess this thread should stopped untill vdiatech and viper call each other and settle the matter and come to a better solution. period, FORD ROCAM has summarized the best. very neutral and the most sensible. |
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4th December 2009, 10:05 | #142 | |||||
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai
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Vdiatech the first step is that you recognise that both parties were at fault. Your cheapest option should be to work with Viper because Viper has been paid. The modfications/corrections you require for a functional product might cost you a bit more but willl surely be less than a whole new FFE. That said your safest option might be to chalk it up as a learning experience (we all pay fees in the school of life - I am a few decades older and still do) and get this made locally where you will have better control over all variables. Quote:
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Fiats, Ambassadors, Heralds, and even the Contessas of the past were hand built. No two were ever the same. I assume todays (post Opel, Ford, Daewoo) cars are much better organised and parts can be interchanged with less or no trouble. So the exhaust from a Corolla should fit another with little or no trouble and no modification (cutting/welding/etc..) no? Quote:
Discalimer: I have not got much hands on experience with cars made post 1980. Quote:
2. Ref Paul Barber: How does Viper know that the first product did not fit. He did not get it back. 3. Vdiatech having modifed the product (however minor the modfication may be) withtout the consent of the the vendor automatically disbars you from asking for a refund. No vendor would tolerate this unless the vendor sees a business opportunity in your actions. Gogi I alwyas knew you had a few screws missing, but 4 whole valves? | |||||
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4th December 2009, 11:20 | #143 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Navi Mumbai
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4th December 2009, 11:41 | #144 |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bangalore
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| Ok, The only mistake I admit to is not speaking to Viper over phone. I always thought, dealing with emails, helps prove a point, if need be, in the future ! Also that I am not a phony person ( read it as telephonic/phony). In my opinion, my first conversation did not go well with VIPER and thought the conversation was one sided and I did not get to say what I wanted. So, I chose email. Probably thats my fault. I still standby what I wrote about the quality of the workmanship, lack of stringest testing before packing it off to a distant town. The delay I can live with ! I still beleive, all this is because of mis-communication between Afzal and Viper. Thats all I have to say. Now, like you guys suggested , I wil call VIPER this evening and ask for a replacement headers , with good finish and no leaks and something that would fit in without brushing against the AC PIPE. My final offer to VIPER I will make this evening after all my meetings is 1. Please send a replacement header, good finishing, after through checking 2. Please pay for the delivery of the same and also ensure that it reaches me promptly 3. I will return the headers and VIPER would have to pay for that (for those of you who asked, which courier would accept without pay, my answer is , thats how VIPER sent them!, So I am sure, they would take it back that way !) 4. Apology for not taking his calls Also, can someone please PM me or post an image as to what the expansion chamber should like. Thats something, I should verify with VIPER. I will post how my telephonic experience goes ! Thanks |
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4th December 2009, 12:04 | #145 |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Delhi
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| vdiatech: you are asking for way too much. you fiddled with the headers he sent you and refused to talk to him about your problem. viper will be doing you a favour by just replacing the headers forget paying for shipping. BTW according to me the expansion chambers can have more than one designs. (if expansion chamber is what i think it is).. |
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4th December 2009, 12:17 | #146 |
Team-BHP Support | I would say a reasonable compromise is as follows: - Viper should send you a new set of headers which should work without any issues. Delivery cost to be borne by Viper. - You send the old set back to him and again Delivery cost to be borne by Viper. - If the new set works then you should agree to pay him 50% cost of the new headers as you have rendered his old set unusable and after meddling with it any evidence has been destroyed. Both parties have incurred losses and there is no win win situation for one side alone. What you are asking for is a little unfair IMO. You had to incurr loss with your fitting guy and extra modifications and Viper will loose 50% cost for the new headers. |
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4th December 2009, 12:26 | #147 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
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4th December 2009, 13:51 | #148 |
Distinguished - BHPian | From what i understand, fitting the headers in a Corsa requires the AC piping etc to be removed and reattached, etc. I have a gut feeling that replacement set is gonna end in the same cycle because it will be fitted by the same local mechanic who seems to be prejudiced (and holds a grudge since work was not done from him). This is my personal opinion about the fitter's thinking. I have not spoken to viper or anyone else about this topic at all. I would suggest, viper should just refund him 50% of the money, vdiatech should go to a local guy, make new headers and reuse the expansion chamber, endcan (if there), etc and close this topic. Viper refunds and gets out of this mess. Vdiatech gets a local guy who can always sort out minor niggling issues. Personally, vdiatech, your demands are too optimistic and unrealistic. |
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4th December 2009, 14:16 | #149 | |
BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangalore
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4th December 2009, 14:29 | #150 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
This is a highly precision job,and even a bolt-on kit need's to be looked and installed without forcing any screw's bolts. Also there is no specific size for Expansion Chamber,its used to reduce the loudness from the FFE,you can even use the OE changer. Peace | |
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