[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Not sure I will buy if it is more than 4 OTR, doesn't make sense. Instead will pick a new Himalayan, less power and less gadgets but darn comfy for my use. Anyways tiger is there for other needs.

Actually, why not the ktm 250 adventure? I think its precisely for reasons like you have mentioned, that maybe the 250 adventure is the right deal. Less power, but not as lethargic as the himalayan, and no gadgets but the TFT is there. I think for a city commute and weekend trail bashing, this might be it.

Cycleworld proto review of the 390 adventure on a webpage now:

https://www.cyclenews.com/2019/11/ar...totype-review/

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Actually, why not the ktm 250 adventure?

And wait another year? I am fed up with this waiting and need to replace the Duke at the earliest. Either adventure or a himalayan and move on is my decision.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Cycleworld proto review of the 390 adventure on a webpage now

Thanks!

The article pinpoints to Bajaj as the reason for all this delay. Looks like Bajaj reluctantly agreed on the small adventure series only when KTM tried producing it outside of India, come what may!

“We’d been talking about producing an Adventure-based on a Bajaj-built model for many years, but there was not much appreciation or acceptance of this on their part,” says KTM’s Senior Product Manager Offroad & Adventure, Joachim Sauer. “Finally, though, there was so much demand for a smaller Adventure, especially from our emerging markets, that we developed a concept bike here in Austria which we were prepared to put into production ourselves with engines sourced from India, even if the price would inevitably be higher.

“But in the end, we managed to convince Bajaj to make an affordable all-rounder with a smaller engine based on the 390 Duke. It offers all the major attributes of its bigger sisters, including electronic rider aids, while providing easier rideability due to its lower weight and less demanding engine characteristics, all combined with lower purchasing costs thanks to being built in India.”

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

And wait another year? I am fed up with this waiting and need to replace the Duke at the earliest. Either adventure or a himalayan and move on is my decision.

Da, 250 adventure is already introduced in Indonesia. Most likely will see a launch alongside 390 or worst case April 2020. See https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...-unveiled.html (Indonesia: KTM 250 Adventure unveiled)

Good to also see the slip on option for the end can on the 390 adventure. Will be nice to see options for those in india. Something deep and mellow would be nice.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Da, 250 adventure is already introduced in Indonesia.

That doesn't mean India launch is around the corner, for all we know they will take their sweet time to bring it to India after they launch the 390. Anyways i prefer some more cc for the touring side of things, so it is 390 Adv Vs Himalayan for me for now.

[ac 427]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

That doesn't mean India launch is around the corner, for all we know they will take their sweet time to bring it to India after they launch the 390. Anyways i prefer some more cc for the touring side of things, so it is 390 Adv Vs Himalayan for me for now.

I wouldn't touch RE with a barge pole. I too am now looking to book the 390 adventure.

My only concern is the heat. So maybe after a few months of the launch, i will check on the same.

[2000rpm]

I think this bike will be very close to 4.00 lakhs and will get very few takers at that price point.

I wish they bring this for less than 3 lakhs. But seems unlikely.

Any birdies and their chirps so far?

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ac 427

I wouldn't touch RE with a barge pole

Agree 100%

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Anyways i prefer some more cc for the touring side of things

Why would you want to even consider the Himalayan... even after seeing umpteen examples of this "ADV tourer" turn into a raked out chopper? And if cc's meant better touring - the Bullet 500 would have been the king of XC rides in India

[nasirkaka]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

That doesn't mean India launch is around the corner, for all we know they will take their sweet time to bring it to India after they launch the 390. Anyways i prefer some more cc for the touring side of things, so it is 390 Adv Vs Himalayan for me for now.

250 ktm Adv would still be quicker in acceleration and better top-end compared to Himalayan and about 25kgs lighter too. Would also have better equipment like suspension, braking, etc. Himalayan may have an edge on low end torque. All these at this points are still speculations based on their 250 platform, but whats certain is RE will have to up their game on Himalayan to sell with KTM 390A and 250A around.

I think this bike will be very close to 4.00 lakhs and will get very few takers at that price point.

I wish they bring this for less than 3 lakhs. But seems unlikely.

Under 4 is the right price for all that specs and feature rich equipments. Anything lower means greater compromise on quality which will bleed more moolahs in the longer run then paying some more upfront. Less then 3? They dont even sell the Dukes at that price point.

[PatienceWins]

I think Duke 390 adventure would be at 50k premium to Duke 390. Considering that Duke 390 OTR in bangalore is around 3 lakhs, hopefully this would be under 4 lakhs.

This would definitely be a better choice than Himalayan for touring considering the reliability track record of Himalayan. Though I loved the low end torque and comfort of Himalayan in the 2 week leh trip this year, the niggling issues we faced on the six bikes we rented do not give me confidence at all. We could ride in peace as there was a support vehicle with mechanic, which would not be the case usually. I usually go for solo trip and I am a novice with bike repairs, so a reliable bike is very important. I intend to wait for sometime so that the initial issues would be fixed by Bajaj.

[Ketan]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Why would you want to even consider the H... even after seeing umpteen examples of this "ADV tourer" turn into a raked out chopper? And if cc's meant better touring - the Bullet 500 would have been the king of XC rides in India

It's not that bad as being referenced here. Not because I own one, I have been reading the reviews prior to the launch, paid the adv on launch and only took the delivery last year, I missed the ABS version by a few months though. I have around 13K kms on my motorcycle, I have rented Himalayan twice, once for a Spiti ride (10days) and once for a Mana pass ride (week long) in North. I feel we should not conclude only based on bad reviews coming from rented motorcycles. A good, long term review of an owner who really takes care of the motorcycle is something worthy to generalize than reviews coming from folks renting Himalayan and expecting that they now have a track ready motorcycle.
Himalayan is the best in its current edition, apart from the twins, this is the only refined engine from RE and I consider it over any other RE or even interceptor/twins when it comes to going places. It handles beautifully on twisties, dirt roads and country roads.
I agree that KTM 390 Adv is surely way better set of equipment, engine and everything in that package and can be compared with Himalayan with certain considerations only. Overall, Himalayan is not as bad as we think, I found it to be a fun to ride motorcycles on country roads, with bit less power on highways that I have to cross to go to places/country roads.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I think Duke 390 adventure would be at 50k premium to Duke 390. Considering that Duke 390 OTR in bangalore is around 3 lakhs, hopefully this would be under 4 lakhs.

This would definitely be a better choice than Himalayan for touring considering the reliability track record of Himalayan. Though I loved the low end torque and comfort of Himalayan in the 2 week leh trip this year, the niggling issues we faced on the six bikes we rented do not give me confidence at all. We could ride in peace as there was a support vehicle with mechanic, which would not be the case usually. I usually go for solo trip and I am a novice with bike repairs, so a reliable bike is very important. I intend to wait for sometime so that the initial issues would be fixed by Bajaj.

Again, we may not be doing justice based on one's experience of rental motorcycles (most abused ones even with low mileage) for about a couple weeks or so.

Yes, a 250 Adv may also be a good idea keeping the reliability factor and other equipment levels in mind when compared with Himalayan.

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Thanks!

The article pinpoints to Bajaj as the reason for all this delay. Looks like Bajaj reluctantly agreed on the small adventure series only when KTM tried producing it outside of India, come what may!

So Rajiv Bajaj's ability to predict what the market wants is failing him. First the move to discontinue scooters and letting Honda make a killing, then not launching a 600+ cc bike and now not being convinced that there is a market for smaller adv motorcycles in India. The last two inspite of having KTM in its portfolio for years!!
Why not do a Maruti and launch different forms with the same engine aka street, adventure, cruiser etc and get the numbers? They have a few engines in their portfolio and supposedly a good R&D that churns out nothing but Pulsars and Avengers. And if they do make a decent product, the marketing fails them - remember Dominar?
They hold so much promise but somehow just don't seem to crack the code. I have given up on TVS. If they had truly delivered on the concepts they showcase, I would not even bother much about Bajaj.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

So Rajiv Bajaj's ability to predict what the market wants is failing him. First the move to discontinue scooters and letting Honda make a killing, then not launching a 600+ cc bike and now not being convinced that there is a market for smaller adv motorcycles in India. The last two inspite of having KTM in its portfolio for years!!
Why not do a Maruti and launch different forms with the same engine aka street, adventure, cruiser etc and get the numbers? They have a few engines in their portfolio and supposedly a good R&D that churns out nothing but Pulsars and Avengers. And if they do make a decent product, the marketing fails them - remember Dominar?

You beat me to it, this debacle is another inglorious mistake in a long series of baffling mistakes by the man once touted to be the future of the Indian two wheeler industry. How the mighty continue to fall.

I can only imagine the level of frustration within KTM to have a partner that refuses to accept the reality of the markets when everything was at their disposal. Platforms. Yes. Demand. Yes. Brand. Yes. Engineering ability. Yes. Willing partner. No.

And the best thing is that for once it is not another automotive giant taking potshots at Bajaj. This time it is their own partner that has washed Bajaj's dirty laundry in public.

I am genuinely surprised that the sections of the Indian automotive media that thrive on clickbait centric articles havent picked up on this with sensational headlines like "KTM blames Bajaj for A390 delays" or "Bajaj skids A390 plans" etc.

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

They hold so much promise but somehow just don't seem to crack the code. I have given up on TVS. If they had truly delivered on the concepts they showcase, I would not even bother much about Bajaj.

To me, TVS continues to be the last big hope for us enthusiasts.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Why would you want to even consider the Himalayan...

We have 3 bikes in our friend circle and all 3 have been doing duty without much fuss. The bike that was with me in Utharkhand is from the carb'ed first gen model and it ran flawlessly on the torturous hills with whole lot of luggauge. After a short service was ridden back to Bangalore from Dehradoon.

It is super comfy, had good riding posture even for on the peg riding. The low end grunt is great and super cheap to buy and run.

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

250 ktm Adv would still be quicker in acceleration and better top-end compared to Himalayan and about 25kgs lighter too.

But at what price point, if it is 50% more than himalayan price it doesn't make sense for the intended use i have. If then I would go for the cheap himalayan. My logic is this, if spending get the best, if not go for the best VFM. No point picking something which is expensive and then making you yearn for more.

Originally Posted by PatienceWins

I think Duke 390 adventure would be at 50k premium to Duke 390. Considering that Duke 390 OTR in bangalore is around 3 lakhs, hopefully this would be under 4 lakhs.
.

Under 4 is what my expectation is also, if so am sold. Just that this BS6 and price uncertainty mentioned by the birdie is little unnerving.

Originally Posted by Ketan

Again, we may not be doing justice based on one's experience of rental motorcycles (most abused ones even with low mileage) for about a couple weeks or so.

I agree, i have rented one at Leh and it ran well for the whole trip albeit a worn out tyre. A well maintained Himalayan is as reliable as any other bike, yes it is not the best out there or what it can be, but for the price you pay i think it is overall a decent package. Again price point is the key, if it was 50k more, no way i would have this opinion.

[nasirkaka]

Making an 'adventure motorcycle' may seem like just another 'variation' for a two wheeler manufacturer but its not that simple. Infact its something which can do more damage to the company/image. Adventure motorcycles are subjected to much harsher environment / terrain and have to be built really really tough to withstand all the off-road 'abuse'. Now this is something very challenging, especially in India, which is known as a hub for low cost manufacturing expertise. Low cost and Good quality usually dont go hand in hand. Any sensible manufacturer would tread the adventure territory with great caution, if at all. Could be the reason for Bajaj to be a bit cautious. Look at what happened to Himalayan. People still remember and refer to the video where cs santosh was testing and foot pegs broke. Or few infamous images where frame had given way. Himalayan did more damage to REs image initially which they are still trying to get over. Look at some of the previous comments here which could be a result of the initial mental image that bike created in our head. A light weight adventure bike at an affordable cost is much bigger challenge as most users would start throwing it on all sort of surfaces, jumping boulders, falling and what not, without any care as it would be cheap to repair. Imagine the complains that would follow.

Good part is there are more options opening up in the adv segment which would encourage competition to improve their products. This was the segment most suited for indian riding conditions, and slowly but surely common folks would realize the advantage an adv bike brings and strengthen the segment.

We have 3 bikes in our friend circle and all 3 have been doing duty without much fuss. The bike that was with me in Utharkhand is from the carb'ed first gen model and it ran flawlessly on the torturous hills with whole lot of luggauge. After a short service was ridden back to Bangalore from Dehradoon.

It is super comfy, had good riding posture even for on the peg riding. The low end grunt is great and super cheap to buy and run.

Himalayan is a decent bike for the price but also as there is not much options out there. With KTM adventure 390 & 250, the choices are opening up. And as this is the adventure category, basics such as upright riding geometry, standing riding, supple suspension, luggage carrying capacity, tank range etc is taken care of, so these would be equally comfortable as himalayan if not more.

But at what price point, if it is 50% more than himalayan price it doesn't make sense for the intended use i have. If then I would go for the cheap himalayan. My logic is this, if spending get the best, if not go for the best VFM. No point picking something which is expensive and then making you yearn for more.

Good part is they are KTM and not BMW. Duke 250 is priced similarly to himalayan, so 250A would be a bit more but surely not 50%. fingers crossed!